Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
Reputation bad, fine, but is it earned?
Again, the questions:
1) "Based on real world events" and it had, amongst other things, US soldiers trafficking in human organs. Got any news stories that cite that?
2) Do you believe it?
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It does not matter whether details are accurate just as it is not relevant whether details (embellishments) in the movie Jaws were relevant (and BTW, I kayaked the creek where "Jaws" happened). Benchmarks such as what Americans did to Turkish soldiers AND poor American credibility is accurate. Americans (government) are now considered such liars that an accurate story about what Americans did to Turkish soldiers only contributes to "evil is America".
It does not matter whether we dispute one story line - as I have been posting repeatedly. What matters to the world is what the world believes. Since Americans (George Jr) lie so often even about torturing people, extraordinary rendition, secret prisons, wiretapping, the farce called Saddam's trial, reasons for war, WMDs, Orange alerts, separation of church and state (and other secular principles), the looting that "was not happening", judicial review, .... my god (quoting Rumsfeld) ... We even imprison many of their own citizens for years in Guantanamo on what is known to be lies. At what point does it matter what you think? It does not. Americans (government) now have the credibility of a John Bolton UN statement.
Front page of Le Monde once said "We are all Americans Now". How massively must we have insulted even the French with our actions and contempt? We did not do it only to the French. When the entire world was as pro-American as possible - we insulted them all with outright lies, deception, hate, torture, and just about anything once considered unAmerican. We might have well preached from the bible to our secular allies.
In America, ignorance is so widespread as to not even understand that both Mexico and Canada have been aggressively critical.
What is the greatest long term threat to America? I believe it to be Pakistan. Why? America has even made Musharraf’s survival difficult. Worse, if Musharraf is gone, then nuclear weapons are probably in extremist Islamic hands. We (our attitude) have made it almost impossible for Pakistani moderates to achieve power. Not just due to total mismanagement in Afghanistan. Because of what Americans do in Iraq - routinely justified by lies such as this mythical and monolithic Al Qaeda. No one with a grasp believes George Jr's "Al Qaeda" exists. Certainly not Turks. Again - American credibility.
Where does America have sufficient credibility as to even make fictional embellishment in a movie appear to be a lie? Since America now lies so often, that embellishment attached to an accurate story must be true. Again, it does not matter how many times UT challenges one story line. Who should they believe? The movie or George Jr? Why is the movie so popular? Once close American friends now believe the movie.
If Saddam was such a threat, then why did Turks not fear? View from a Turkish perspective. Saddam is a threat only in American propaganda. Saddam was never a threat to Turkey or any other adjacent nation. They knew it. Someone is lying - guess who? America even denied what was done to Turkish soldiers. Clearly the movie – not America – is honest.
How much worse can American credibility fall? We cannot even answer three simplest questions:
What is the smoking gun that justifies "Mission Accomplished"?
What is the strategic objective?
What is the exit strategy defined by that strategic objective?
We cannot even answer three simple questions that are required for any war ... even in 500 BC? In a world when honesty would have made other liars look dishonest, George Jr has made everything in
Valley of the Wolves Iraq appear credible. In a world of only ‘good and evil’, George Jr is clearly evil. Again, what is
their perspective? No wonder that movie is so highly regarded in Turkey. Just another example of how many ‘good friends’ America has alienated because George Jr - god's chosen president - is a liar.
He cannot answer three simple questions that every American soldier desperately needs answered ... which brings us right back to the subject of this thread. That president lies so much that troops do not even have a strategic objective – Deja vue Nam. That president lies so much that even the movie
Valley of the Wolves Iraq is wildly popular among a nation that was once a closest American friend.
Both questions are answered in great detail with references to credibility and perspective - and why that movie is so popular.