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Originally Posted by Radar
Actually no. There are no people in America that don't believe in rights, and that includes you. If I tried to kill you, you'd say that you have the right to live.
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Actually, yes. If you tried to kill me, your actions say that you don't believe in those rights.
You would be the one who doesn't believe.
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Originally Posted by Radar
Without rights, you would have no right to complain if I did try to kill you anymore than you would complain about another natural occurance like the rain.
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I'm not saying there are no rights, I'm saying rights are rules that a society agrees to.
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Originally Posted by Radar
You complain about an "anxiety-filled society" without written laws, but the truth is without rights we'd have no laws and I could enslave you, rape you, rob you, and murder you without fear of retaliation because you have no right to your life, your person, or your possessions.
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Wait, didn't you say that laws only limit rights? Now you're saying rights are the basis of laws? You're confusing me. Do laws protect my rights, or limit my rights?
Uncertainty causes anxiety. Without precisely understood rules, people will be uncertain, and therefore anxious.
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Originally Posted by Radar
Most would have less anxiety if they knew the only law was that no person could violate the person, property, or rights of others than to live in the "society" where rights aren't recognized that you've described.
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But what do you mean by "violate"? That's where trouble begins. I might feel that my rights are being violated if you yell obscenities at me from your yard - if my "stuff" is an extesion of my "person", then my reputation, self-esteem, and pride are an even closer extension of my person. Can I kill someone for yelling, since my interpretation is that they are "stealing" my pride?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar
... to live in the "society" where rights aren't recognized that you've described.
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I didn't say rights aren't recognized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar
Society has no rights. Only individuals do, and they got these rights the moment they were born. Rights don't come from societal conventions or agreements. Rights can't be bought, sold, traded, taken, or given away.
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I disagree. What you're describing sounds like Original Sin to me. Some kind of mystical aura that surrounds us. It's not. We're born with a biological imperitive for survival of our species. We would kill, rape, steal, do whatever it takes to ensure the continuation of our species, if left to ourselves. It's only through interaction with other civilized people that we form conventions that serve to improve the chances of species survival better than we could individually. These convention are rights, morals, mores, laws, courtesies, - whatever you want to call them.