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Originally Posted by Aliantha
My argument is as I first stated. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, your circumstances will stay the same, through no fault of your own.
I do accept that there are those in society who benefit from the hard work of others, and I also accept that sometimes it's possible to improve your situation in life. To rise above your poor beginings perhaps.
The thing I don't accept is that it's possible for everyone to do so. For one thing, if everyone did, the economy would crash quicker than you could blink.
Also, note that if there were no people requiring state assistance in any way, then there'd be a lot of people out of work. Your premise also surmises that everyone is honest and becomes wealthy via legitimate or moral means, a fact which you must surely acknowledge is not the case in many cases.
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True, sometimes you stay, some times a ditch digger is a ditch digger due to no fault of his/her own. He/she may not be motivated enough.
When I left I had to go to class dead tired instead of deciding, making the choice, to sit on the couch or go to bed those nights after digging. He/she may not have the natural talents to do well in school, just a fact, no fault of theirs or the schools… they may have to work harder an many get discouraged, but quitting will be their choice. He/she may like their life, OMG!!!!
No, it is not possible for everyone to do everything, but it is possible for everyone to find their place. Again, excluding the truly disabled/mentally handicapped, lack of motivation is neither. You know what makes my point wonderfully, guys and gals that are “special’ often have to FIGHT for the right to work and have their own place (I was a coach for the Special Olympics).
The ones that choose to are always awesome workers and keep their places spotless. Free-will & choice is the difference.
That there would be less state workers sucking-up our taxes if more people did well is not a valid point. That would be a wonderful thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45
Those self-made people are very rare and sometimes things go wrong. Just because someone doesn’t have extreme creativity, extreme hard work ethic, and damn good luck doesn’t mean they should be stuck in poverty for the rest of their life.
I don't think that a child of a rich family shouldn't enjoy luxuries, just that the child shouldn't have an advantage in getting a good job than a kid raised in a poor family. They both should have to prove that they are better than the other.
Rkzenrage, I don't know if you are understanding or what. I think the person who works the hardest and proves that they are the best should get the best jobs, not just the best from rich families.
By the way, we have no free will or very limited free will.
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I strongly disagree. I have worked and gone to class all over the US and in every office and classroom I can honestly say there has not been, within arm’s length, someone who was from a poor, or poorer, background, working their way up. Many working two jobs, going to school while raising a family! In LA, you get the added degree to the slope they are climbing of their being “Mexican”, most are not but if they look Hispanic they are automatically “Mexican” to 80% of the idiots in the business community. But, do they complain, no? They CHOOSE to suck it up and prefer to fight on equal footing. I have heard that many times. Here in FL, OMG, the neck backgrounds, rife with meth and booze and yet they plug away, working on their dialect every day (I know this because I help). Again, I have never been in a class or office without someone working to improve.
It is not the exception, it is the norm.
How do you take the advantage away from the rich child? I am very curious about this.
Do you propose to make home-schooling, private schools, prep-schools & boarding schools illegal? Frats? Private college? How?
They should not have luxuries? Why not?
As for the job, their diction, grammar, dialect, people they know, places they have been, school’s shirt, frat pin on his lapel, prep tie, mason’s ring & handshake, vocabulary, etc, etc, etc… is going to go away, um… how?
Natural selection… the big lion’s daughter gets the gazelle… how it is supposed to be.
This is a long post and I am not going to give you a history lesson, I am just going to say this. I am right about this.
America was predominantly built by self-made men and women. Many of them freed slaves, under classes like Irish whom were treated like dogs and a great many uneducated individuals, who, through the pure power of free-will, choice and drive changed the world… for us it has been the norm, not the exception.