[Radar]

Cairo: Once again, your circular logic gives away your total lack of intellectual ability and your claims that I’m “tyrannical” hold no water given the fact that by fighting the mixing of church and state I’m fighting tyranny itself.

You have no points for me to argue against. You make ludicrous claims that people’s right to exercise freedom of religion is infringed by not being allowed to post their religious doctrine in federally funded buildings. Posting the 10 commandments in a public place isn’t an exercise of religious freedom. It’s a violation of the 1st amendment because it amounts to respecting an establishment of religion (or even a few). Making laws that protect us from religious zealots violating the 1st amendment is not a law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Praying is an exercise of religion, attempting to make a false connection of your religion to our government by posting your religious doctrine in publicly funded buildings is not an exercise of religious freedom.

1. No, the term separation of church and state is not in the Constitution, thus cannot be judged by our courts

Absolutely true, and absolutely irrelevant. As noted earlier, separationists take this language from Thomas Jefferson's 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists in which he argued that the Constitution created a "wall of separation between church and state." But, as noted above, separationists have never taken the phrase as anything more than a handy (if historically significant) summary of the intent of the religion clauses of the First Amendment.

No magic attaches to a particular verbalization of an underlying concept. The concept at issue here is more accurately expressed in Madison's phrase 'separation between Religion and Government,' or in the popular maxim that 'religion is a private matter.

The phrase "Bill of Rights" has become a convenient term to designate the freedoms guaranteed in the first ten amendments; yet it would be the height of captiousness to argue that the phrase does not appear in the Constitution. Similarly, the right to a fair trial is generally accepted to be a constitutional principle; yet the term "fair trial" is not found in the Constitution. To bring the point even closer to home, who would deny that "religious liberty" is a constitutional principle? Yet that phrase too is not in the Constitution. The universal acceptance which all these terms, including "separation of church and state," have received in America would seem to confirm rather than disparage their reality as basic American democratic principles

Separation of church and state is an ideal that makes sure the Government can not overtake and control the church as our Founders saw Britain and other Monarchys do.

It’s a TOTAL AND COMPLETE separation of church and state. They wanted government out of religion and religion out of government.

The Constitution and Declaration are NOT Godless documents, they both acknowledge and recognize Religion/God.

That’s a complete and utter lie. Neither the constitution, nor the declaration of independence recognizes religion or the Judeo-Christian concept of god. The word “Creator” refers to a vague higher power such as nature. The founding fathers believed in NATURAL RIGHTS, not “god given” rights. I dare you to make a comparison between the declaration of independence and the Magna Carta or any other previous declaration of rights.

The Constitution not only grants citizens the Right to support the church of their choice, but also the Right to "free exercise thereof"...meaning not to prohibit an individuals actions, thoughts, and words concerning Religion.

Wrong again. The constitution doesn’t grant any rights. It protects the rights we’re born with. Preventing people from posting their religious doctrine in government places when that government is explicitly prohibited from putting any religion or religions above others isn’t infringing on the “free exercise” of any religions and it’s ridiculous to claim otherwise.

I am not Christian, and do not follow the teachings of Jesus...so I agree with Jefferson, somewhat. But who am I to unconstitutionally demand that those who do be prohibited?...The Taliban?!!!!

Again you make an outrageous and false comparison. It’s not unconstitutional, tyrannical, or oppressive to allow people to practice their religions freely but prevent them from using oppressive, unconstitutional, or tyrannical means to force their religion down the throats of others. And when your lame attempts to throw logic to the wind fail and people see through your transparent bullshit you resort to calling people names like “Mr. Taliban”.

You see, the difference between you and me is my America offers a choice.

No, the difference between us is that I present intelligent, thoughtful, cogent arguments that make perfect sense and you make ludicrous and false claims backed by circular logic and hypocritical accusations.

My America allows anyone to pray anywhere they want, but not to force other Americans to pay for instructor lead prayers, unconstitutional mixing of church and state through the posting of religious doctrine, naming deities in oaths, on currency, etc. My America doesn’t prohibit or restrict any beliefs. Your America is unconstitutional, tyrannical, oppressive, and wrong! My America is all about freedom for EVERYONE, personal responsibility, limited government, etc. while yours is about an unconstitutional, imperialistic, theocracy forcing one or several religions into the lives of other Americans (or foreigners) who don’t subscribe to those beliefs.

We the People own those buildings, and I believe all Religions should donate to them. That encourages a multi-religion nation.

We’re not a multi-religion nation, or any religion. The United States government has no place in religion and NO RELIGIONS have any place in our government.

The Government has not interfered until it makes law...YOU, on the otherhand, are UNConstitutionally interfering by ramming a Godless Communist, no choice America down the throats of 90+% of American citizens who want to have a choice!

The government can do lots of interfering without making laws. There is no constitutional amendment giving the government the legal authority to prohibit drugs yet they do. YOU support UNCONSTITUTIONALLY ramming some religions down the throats of 100% of Americans while I want to give people choice. The choice to practice any religion they choose, or no religion at all without the government sanctioning or recognizing any particular religion(s) above any others by UNCONSTITUTIONALLY allowing any religious doctrine to be posted in the buildings owned by everyone including atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, and hundreds of other Non-Christian and Non-Jewish religions and sects.

The “wall of separation of church and state” mentioned by Jefferson in the letter to the Danbury Baptists or in his other writings is not one-directional and nothing any of the founding fathers have ever written suggests otherwise.

And for the record the Supreme Court building was finished in 1935 and the 10 commandments were posted at THAT time. NOT by the founding fathers. The 10 commandments were added by ignorant religious zealots long after the founding fathers were dead and buried. The same is true of “God” on our currency, in our oaths, and in anywhere else in our government. They believed that the total and complete separation of all religions and government were good for government and good for religions.

I don't know wolf in tennis at least the players attempt to change strategies when there getting their asses kicked.

Very true. I’m an avid tennis fan. Hopefully you’ll be able to help Cairo since he’s been getting his ass kicked since before this thread even started.

Radar was quoting anti-christian thinkers specifically for un-christian reasons. And he is Tyrannical for his UNConstitutional prohibition of Religion stance.

I did no such thing. I was quoting non-Christian (not anti-Christian) creators of this nation for constitutionally accurate reasons. I’m not tyrannical but you are. You support using the force of government to push one set of religious doctrine down the throats of others despite this not being an exercise of religion but just an exercise of power over other citizens.

Radar is touting for a Godless America. The conclusion you draw from this is up to you.

I’m the least communist man on the face of the earth. Nice attempt at a red herring though. Way to try to draw attention from your complete lack of substance in this debate. The government of the united states ACTUALLY IS godless. It always has been and hopefully always will be. The people of America on the other hand worship as many deities as they choose. They may not choose, however, to make others view or recognize their religious doctrine or to add any credibility to that doctrine by UNCONSTITUTIONALLY AND TYRANNICALLY posting it in federal buildings, courts, or other establishments of our godless government.

Saying 1 out of every 10 Americans are "non-religious" is a very generous percentage, in my opinion. Regardless, majority is majority.

Wow! Do you ever tire of being consistently wrong? You must not because you do it more consistently than anyone else I have seen.

First off if you add up all the atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, etc. you’d have much more than 15%. And if you add in all non-practicing religious people, you’d have even more non-religious people. Next if you add up all the religions that aren’t Christian or Jewish in America you would have less than 50% of the population. But even if each and every person except for one….me for instance wanted to post the 10 commandments in courthouses it still couldn’t be done because it goes directly against the constitution and making a law to post them goes against it too. Our INALIENABLE rights aren’t up for debate. They can’t be voted on, taken away, or even willingly given away. They aren’t given to us by government, the constitution, or even god unless you consider nature to be god. So a majority of religious people is irrelevant. Just like your entire argument.

You have been schooled. Class is dismissed, so run along child.