[BigV]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

BigV: Nobody said "convert or die" was as central to Islam as the Shahada. But the fact that anybody is saying "convert or die" (and don't kid yourself, far too many are; one is too many) is a supremely serious and dangerous problem.

Emphasis mine.

Originally Posted by Tin Man

The knee jerk reaction of Muslims to the Pope's statement (which the majority have still not read in context) only goes to prove that they do indeed use violence to further the cause of Islam (a nun in Africa has already been shot and killed by muslims). In fact you only have to check out the history of Islam over the centuries to see that they have used barbaric methods to convert and enforce their beliefs onto non-believers. We all know what horrors Christianity has perpetrated over two millennia to keep its stranglehold on the populace, ditto Islam now (and possibly the future).

Also, if Islam is so wonderful and the faith of its followers is so strong why the need for so many harsh laws to enforce it. One wonders just how many of Islam's followers would still be muslims if it wasn't for Islam's Dark Age laws.

We hear so much about Islamic tolerance and yet we're still waiting to see it put into practice. Perhaps it's only reserved for themselves.

Remember one thing, the central tenet of Islam is the conversion of ALL the people on Earth to Islam. Failure to convert means your death (that's usually after torture and/or mutilation).

Ain't religion wonderful.

I don't make this shit up, I only call people on it.

Is it a serious problem? Is one too many? Yes and yes. Is it dangerous inflammatory violence inciting speech **regardless** of whose mouth it spews from? Yes.

You're right again, as you often are, when you say this:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

It's true that all the Muslim people I know personally are indeed peaceful. But one way even peaceful Muslims contribute to this problem is when they are reluctant to criticise or distance themselves from their more violent and autocratic coreligionists; this silence is widely taken as tacit endorsement, and leads to bogus accusations of religious prejudice against those who oppose them.

Well said. But I would extend your remarks this way. You could easily omit Muslim, or even substitute the name of any other religious tradition in its place and leave your remark unchanged, or even strengthened. And the part about inferring tacit endorsement, well that applies to everyone. Especially someone who knows Muslims personally, all of whom are peaceful, and who fails to refute such "serious and dangerous" and libelous remarks.

No "tacit endorsement" of such hate may be inferred from my actions, and I urge all those reasonable *silent* people who know otherwise to stand up and call bullshit when they see it too. Letting any of these remarks slide is forgoing and opportunity to spread peace by fighting hate.

"Tin Man" is the handle of the idiot, not the type of argument. See post #2