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Originally posted by MaggieL
Oh, dear! He "snubbed the UN outright", did he? I'm shocked. Considerig how nice everybody there has been to us.

What a load of crap.

He *came to the UN* and told them that he considered it to be critical to confront the continued Iraqui contempt and duplicity about the WMD inspections and challeneged them to do something about it--while indicating that he was prepared to act unilaterally.

The world has been good to America when US leadership was intelligent - and first listened.

When the US had responsible leaders, then Americans were well treated internationally. A naive Ronald Reagan (he listened instead to Oliver North) made Lebanon dangerous for Americans - when previously Americans could walk among most combatants in relative safety. Reagan wanted the US to be the world's policeman. That makes the world unfriendly and unsafe for Americans.

The UN gave Bill Clinton a 5 minute standing ovation - because he bothered to listen instead of telling the world what they must do. Clinton did not force America on the world. However George Jr, who had every oppurtunity to prove himself, instead started right off by telling the world how to act AND trying to make America THE world's policemen. Bush started by alienating the German Chancellor, underming the Oslo Accords, and continued to undermine America's relations with most every nation in the world. Deny that. Deny that Bush has undermined America's relations with virtually everyone. His 'axis of evil' are nations that are not a new or direct threat to the US. Irrelavant to George Jr. Only a world's policeman would advoate such militarism and unilateral attacks - in the tradition of Tojo.

George Jr's administration need not first listen. They already knew what is good for the world - including the adhoc policy of doing everything different from Clinton. No other President since Nixon has ever earned so much international despair because no other president since Nixon has been so wrongheaded - so unwilling to first learn. Learn? Why bother. He did not even do that in school.

Anyone with basic world knowledge could see that Iraq was not a threat to the US. Only if Saddam is a crazy man, can one then say he would attack the US. Saddam has a clear, sadistic objective that includes staying well clear of the US. He made a mistake in Kuwait because he thought annexation would happen without US intervention. We all but told him same. Clearly Saddam would not make the same mistake twice. Therefore he has absolutely no intention of threatening the US. This point is not even debatable - except in the right wing 'we fear everyone' George Jr administration. Even there, no concenus exists - that Saddam is a threat - as Sen Graham so shrewdly exposed.

Saddam is a threat to his neighbors - not to the US. Even his rumored weapons of mass destruction are designed for use on neighbors - not on the US. Only the fearful or the naive would think Saddam wants to attack the US. Curious. They also fear naked statues.

George Jr wants to protect Saddam's neighbors from Saddam - even if those nations don't want protection. Historically that has always been a prescription for failure. Protecting another nation that does not want protection will only make the US into "Ugly Americans" - as defined by the best selling book. But then George Jr is as versed in history's lessons as he was in school and business. History? Why should he learn history when he has a political agenda? That same mindset is what made both Nixon and Johnson such poor presidents.

George Jr originally intended to demand the UN endorse his ultimatum. Fortunately, cooler heads in his adminstration prevailed. At the last minute he backed off. He only insisted that the UN require new inspections in Iraq. He avoided any direct threat of unilateral action. These cooler heads (probably from the State Dept) saved America's closest allies from major international embarrassment - a direct confrontation over international policy. America's closest allies are marking time - trying to outlast George Jr. George Jr earns an adverse opinion. George Jr is a dangerous president presently only held in line by the contradictory opinions of almost every close ally. Thank goodness for American allies who are acting more in America's interests than our current American president.

But then anyone who thinks Iraq is a threat to the US simply 1) does not understand Saddam's quite clear objectives, 2) did not learn the capabilities of those hypothetical WMD, 3) has not learned the repeated lessons of history, and 4) must be so militant as to "yes man" this right wing extremist US president.

Various "threats of use of power" from jihads are really nothing more than a serious and organized civil unrest. It is not a war - except if one has a militaristic perspective. Same actions in Phillippines, Cambodia, Korea, Georgia, the many Kazans, Tibet and Nepal, all through Africa, in Italy and Spain, or in Central America were only insurrections - not international wars. These jihads are organized civil unrest. If only America would stop listening to a 'we fear everywhere' administration who at one point was warning of a new, mythical attack every week. The current American president has hyped this stuff up with his militaristic rhetoric and his totalitarian expressions such as "Homeland Security".

There are no terrorists hiding under every rock as there weren't ten years ago. Therefore I asked, "Where are these other relevant "threats of the use of power" coming from". If we eliminate George Jr's militaristic attitudes, then we are under less threat today than we were in 1995. It is safer to fly in a commercial airliner today than it was throughout the entire 1990s. So where are these threats? Only from organized civil unrest in rare, but over publicized events. International terrorism only looks bigger today because, previously, Liza Thomas Laurie and the local gossip never bothered to report it. You would think the sharks have suddenly started feasting on human flesh when in reality, the number of shark attacks on humans had decreased. Terrorism is less today.

The biggest threat to US security is to force itself upon the world as the "world's policeman". Previously that attitude made Americans into "Ugly Americans". When US presidents first listened to the world, then US presidents were some of the world's most popular people. Listening is why DeGaul personally walked the entire Kennedy funeral procession. His point was bluntly specific. Kennedy listened and earned highest praise even from the most obstinate Charles DeGaul. When Kennedy was shot, people were openly crying in the streets of Tokyo, Paris, and Santiago - because America was that highly regarded. America that led by listening has always been the world's most honored people. Only one without international perspective, such as George Jr, would advocate such contempt for the UN and other nations. It is not Saddam or the UN that is a threat to world peace. World peace is threatened by George Jr.'s militant demeanor created by blind allegiance to political doctrine and no interest in first listening.

The Economist of 5 Sept 2002 summarized George Jr's critics: [QUOTE}
that he is wrong to link the war on terrorism to the problem of rogue states; that he is allowing the question of Iraq to distract him from the more pressing issue of al-Qaeda; that he has backed Israel too unconditionally; that he is squandering international support and weakening an international coalition because of neoconservative blood lust.[/quote]

When Saddam's neighbors finally decide Saddam is a threat, then Saddam will get his just due by a world lead by the US. However if George Jr decides to unilaterally confront Saddam now that he is not a threat to anyone, then the world is unsafe for every American and every American ally.

Only the naive would think Saddam has any intention of unilaterally attacking the US. It is George Jr's policy - to get the naive to promote Iraq as a threat to the US. Easy to do among those most militant Americans just iching for another war. Hard to do among peple who first learn about the world - the listeners. But then George Jr knows everything he need know about the world from his political agenda. First listen? Nonsense. This is America. We already know what is best for the world.