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<I>Tobiasly</I>
NO ONE IS DISPUTING THAT THOSE EVENTS TOOK PLACE.
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I followed up Undertoad's claims with the proof, not yours. It wasn't addressed at you, it was was proof to the doubters. Since it's a separate thread not involving you, please stay out of it, and don't shout at me. I clearly indicated that I was quoting you first - answering you - and then Undertoad - answering him.
If you are unable to follow two threads of discussion within one posting, then please refrain to following up to posts with more than a few hundred words. (I believe mine had slightly over 2100) I have no interest in entering shouting flame matches with you.
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We are well past the era where we can afford to act reactively to attacks against us. Regimes run by homicidal maniacs who hate the U.S. having WMD is something we can't let happen.
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You seem to have failed to read my earlier posting in which I advocated removing Saddam Hussein and ensuring democracy and freedom in Iraq, and the region. If you cannot read, please don't put words in my mouth. (I also demonstrated why the use of the word 'maniac' is inappropriate, but this also seems to have gone unnoticed, and obviously unacknowledged since you continue to do it)
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All this bullshit about "if the U.S. proactively attacks other countries, that's the first step to total world anarchy" is ridiculous.
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You shouldn't put that nonsense into quotation marks, since that seems to attribute it to me. I never said that, neither did I imply anything like 'total world anarchy.' Once again, why are you deliberately misquoting me and misstating my intent? You are committing fairly serious oversimplifications of poli-sci issues that are too complicated to be solved by 'let's bomb this and everything will be ok'.
Since you don't seem to understand why I'm eager to have others acknowledge mistakes and misstatements made, I'll clarify it once more: Those mistakes keep creeping up again and again, even those they've been clearly disproven, until they enter common consciousness as accepted truth. Since you are misattributing lots of phrases to me (I assume you thought you were humorously paraphrasing), and since you completely misstate my personal beliefs, even though I repeatedly stated them, I see no further reason to engage in conversation with you on this topic. My time simply isn't infinite, and I don't enjoy being flamebaited and figuratively shouted at.
Regarding the points on why the US shouldn't simply attack Iraq and then do nothing, they've been outlined in an earlier posting. I suspect that our positions are a lot closer than you would think, but it's difficult to see through all of the empty catchphrases, regurgitated PR spin, sound and fury.
If you really, really can't see what's going on, let's have a Republican campaigning advisor <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/21/politics/21REPU.html">spell</A> it out for you.
"Senior Republican Party officials say the prospect of at least two more weeks of Congressional debate on Iraq is allowing their party to run out the clock on the fall election, blocking Democrats as they try to seize on the faltering economy and other domestic concerns as campaign issues. ... The emerging dynamic has produced growing if quiet optimism among Republicans that they will be able to turn back the Democratic drive to take control of the House. ... Scott Reed, a Republican consultant, said: 'The secret to the election now is to beat the clock. Every week, you can hear the ripping noise of another page of the calendar coming off the wall. Another week has gone by. And there's only six more to go.' "
Simplified: The country is screwed. The economy is screwed. Your personal and civil liberties are screwed. A war in Iraq would cost hugely, not to mention the cost of keeping troops there, and its economic benefits are doubtful. But as long as Bush keeps talking Iraq, the media will keep propagating it, and nothing else will dominate the election. And since nobody will vote unpatriotically ("What if Saddam uses WMDs on us? He used them on his OWN PEOPLE! HIS OWN PEOPLE! That homicidal maniac!"), a Republican victory is assured.
X.
PS: <a href="http://slate.msn.com//?id=2071466">This</a> may be of interest to Tobiasly and others; it contrasts the positions of Democrats and Republicans on how to fight Terrorism better than I'd be able to sum up in a few words. (edit)