[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by tw

Endorsed aboveis a fundamental that promotes racism in nations.

I do not ENDORSE any such principle. I made an observation about the most fundamental difference between the USA and the European nations.

What Tonchi is saying is that some European nations must die off because they cannot do what America did.

No, I didn't say Italy or any other nation MUST DIE OFF for that or any other reason. Italy has not been prosperous for a very long time, but I know nothing about their economy. I do know that they are constantly kicking out boatloads of Albanians, so they must not "need" the laborers as much as you believe they do.

I disagree with Tonchi's comment about Miami. What he said is not even what the historical summaries document. Yes- the Mariel boatlift did include many hard core criminals. But it also included many times more productive people who were criminals only according to Castro politics.

I stand by my assertion that the FOUNDATION for the Cuban reshaping of Miami was already in place before the Marielitos got there. Castro did NOT ship his political prisoners (criminals only according to Castro politics). Castro's motive was to harrass and overburden the US with the flotsam and garbage of Cuba, he literally ordered the emptying of the prisons and mental institutions, and only permitted boats to leave during that amnesty period if he filled them FIRST with people who the soldiers brought to the docks. I read the account of one captain that he had to go and return THREE TIMES with such cargo until he was permitted to leave with his family. What was the percentage of "honest" or "worthwhile" people who left as opposed to the scum? I have no idea. What I do know, from first-hand accounts by my Cuban friends, is that by the time of Mariel (which is the name of a port which all the boats were required to embark from) any Cubans with money or connections or abilities had already made it out if they wanted to. Those who remained behind were mostly family members and friends of people in the first wave. My friend Rolando still got tears in his eyes while telling how his father had taken them all the way to the boat which was smuggling him and his sister to Florida when Castro first came into power, and then refused to leave with them. Some people just could not make the wrenching change, they stayed, but most family members were desperate to join the others in Florida. Castro held those people hostage, even though the bribes were paid, until he could ship the bottom of the barrel off with them. A lot of money was extorted from earlier refugees in order to have their families together again and Castro wiped out the prison population and other inconvenient and destitute people in the bargain. Not bad for a few month's work. Hope the history books you read made that clear.

Somehow Tonchi assumes only professionals - ie doctors - can be productive. Miami found among the Mariel boat people a massive number of productive Americans.

I did not assume any such thing. See my comments above. I said that the cream of Cuba rose again to be the cream of the USA. The same thing applied to the educated and highly talented Jews who fled Europe when the Nazi cloud loomed on the horizon. You should not make the assumption that more bodies create more productivity, because they don't. A lot of "shaking out" had to take place after Uncle Sam clamped the lid on Mariel finally. I unfortunately know TWO girls who behave like gutter trash, they happen to be Cuban and brag about how they came over as children from Mariel. They appear to be unfortunately true to the stereotype. But even so, the true story lies in the fact that many decent people, motivated and eager, made here to join their families and had a strong helping hand to integrate them into the American lifestyle and economy. That is why they were productive. They were not "alone".

If Tonchi has a problem with too many immigrants, then why did I not see a single post from him about the mental midget president who maintain agricultural subsidies (a screw the world attitude), protect anti-American industries such as steel, corporate welfare, etc - all so that illegal immigrants must come to America for those jobs?

You haven't been reading my posts, I see. I've been too busy posting about the mental midget president who is destroying our prestige throughout the entire world, erasing our Constitutional rights, and sending our unequipped and outnumbered young men to be slaughtered like sheep far from home. THEN I will get to work on the problems with Big Agriculture and the Bracero economy. Gimme time

Meanwhile the mass flow of immigrants in CA and Miami will be and are examples of what has made America (and other nations) great.

Totally agree with you. But are you prepared to live packed like sardines with the other billion people around the world who think that if they can just get across the US border everything will be better from then on? I loved "Blade Runner, the Movie", I will not love the reality if it arrives in California within my lifetime. But we can discuss that later, I believe we agree in most of the basics and can have a fine time with this topic since we are fellow Kalifornians

This even demonstrated by the Roman Empire.

Oooo, no. Don't think so. Rome is a completely different situation. Rome made the peoples of their conquered territories CITIZENS OF ROME so that they would have a stake in the administration of their countries without having massive troop contingents stationed everywhere to keep order when they were needed to move onward into new fields of conquest. They would have been stretched impossibly thin, you see. Now THAT sounds familiar, doesn't it? By your logic, perhaps we should have made all the IRAQIS citizens of the United States

BTW, if you don't know who to vote for tomorrow, then vote against the incumbent. Otherwise the incumbents have a history of becoming corrupt faster.

I'm also voting against all of Ahnuld's phony propositions. He has collected enough money from special interests by now to have balanced the State budget if it had been applied to the treasury instead of withdrawing another $10 Million to run his "special election". Talk about "business as usual"