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Tonchi · 11-07-2005, 04:41 PM

Tonchi personally knows five people who fled Castro's Cuba. Tonchi visited Miami both before and after the Cuban influx, and can personally speak about the economic revitalization of that area. Tonchi admires Emilio Estefan and Kike Santander, who practically single-handedly made "Latin" music part of mainstream America in recent years. But TW needs to check out some facts before he draws broad assumptions about Cubans in Miami. The people who led the economic boom were the PROFESSIONALS AND EDUCATED PEOPLE who fled Cuba. They arrived beginning in the early 60's, and men who had been doctors in their native countries were willing to work as janitors. Those families rose to the top again within one generation. Cristina Saralegui's family were publishers in Cuba and they became publishers again in the US. TW is referencing the "MARIEL BOATLIFT" phenomenon which came later, when Castro deliberately emptied the prisons and insane asylums of the dregs of Cuba and sent them in a wave to the US. Boats were actually forced to take these scum or they could not leave. It was not a "rush to freedom", it was a Communist regime seizing a window of opportunity to get rid of the trash which they didn't have the resources to support. These criminals and other undesirables hit Florida and busily went about doing what got them into prison in Cuba in the first place, and to this day Florida has not been able to deport them or deal with them as normal refugees or immigrants, giving them almost a Guantanamo status. They also dispersed quickly to other states, causing a mini "Cuban Crime Wave" until law enforcement realized what was happening and began to deal with it. TW would do well to find out how even other Cuban refugees did not embrace the "Marielitos" and didn't appreciate how they negatively impacted the gains other Cubans had been accomplishing in previous years. Tonchi also personally knows two girls who came over with the Mariel Boatlift. They were scum in Cuba and they are scum in Miami; these girls led an attack on Latin star Paulina Rubio at an awards program, disgracing our fan club and other decent Latinos on national television. Don't make assumptions or give a knee-jerk reaction to "Cubans" in Florida, because you are giving credit across the board and it is not due to all. And definitely do not use the word Mariel around any professionals you meet in Miami, because it is an insult. Even immigrants and refugees have groups they discriminate against

For the differences in the Cuban community which I have mentioned above, California IS NOT the same dynamic as Miami. For one thing, it is a heck of a lot easier to get into California by land, but we do not have the "catch and release" principles running our INS here. In Florida, any Cuban who makes it ashore in the US may stay; if they intercept your boat on the water, you get sent back. Mexicans do not have the same privileges. They are fair game on both sides of the border, but nevertheless many of them come and go constantly, taking money and consumer goods back to relatives which remain in Mexico. Money earned by Mexicans working in the USA and sent home is now the largest income source in their country, having passed petroleum and tourism. I don't intend to discuss the despicable "Plantation Economy" of Fresno County and much of California which encourages importation of cheap and degraded labor. It would take a Federal Commission and 10 years of investigation to make any inroads to stopping that, and besides, I already said elsewhere that I believe it will go around and come back to bite us in the ass if we don't address the problems which our society is creating here and everywhere there is an uneducated and unskilled underbelly.

Yes, I believe that California will be a different and not automatically worse place because of the immigrants. They will contribute a new vitality, but only when they get out from under the Plantation Economy which brought most of them here in the first place. They have nothing in common with the Cubans except dialects of the same language (except for the Mixtecs, but that is a different problem). The Mexicans who came here were lucky to have a 4th grade education, they were not doctors and upper/middle-class people fleeing political oppression. Everything they have achieved was gained HERE, they have really intended to improve themselves and their lives and that is the epitome of the American Dream. In doing that, they have also improved the lives of uncounted millions of Mexicans, who are enjoying the benefits back home and adding to the economy there. Yes, California will ultimately benefit, but we still have hanging over our heads the FACT that the number of people in the state has doubled in the last 25-30 years. Right now we simply can't take care of them, and THAT problem is getting worse instead of better. Everybody suffers as a result. That is why I believe we have to seal our borders and control entry to this country, and screw all the conspicuous consumers who think they need maids and gardeners and below-minimum-wage janitors at Walmart. It's not racism to say "this has got to stop now", we don't need 10 million more Norwegians any more than we can absorb 10 million more Mexicans.

This is not what France is facing, however. One of the few things Reagan said that I agreed with was when he told the story about how a person from ANY country - no matter what color, religion, or background - could BE an American. We are an entire nation of immigrants, it is our strength and not our weakness. But Reagan said you can't go to Italy and become an Italian or to France and become French the same way. The problem in France is so painful because they are facing a crisis of their national identity if the Muslim immigration continues unchecked. They can't be "absorbed", and that is what keeps them second-class or worse there. It's not a matter of "there is no more room for you", it's a lot deeper rejection than that. That is why the resentment is boiling over and why the reaction to it is so violent. It's going to be very difficult for them to resolve this. It's not a matter of passing a few civil rights laws to make the minorities happy anymore.

11-07-2005, 04:41 PM	#27
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	Tonchi personally knows five people who fled Castro's Cuba. Tonchi visited Miami both before and after the Cuban influx, and can personally speak about the economic revitalization of that area. Tonchi admires Emilio Estefan and Kike Santander, who practically single-handedly made "Latin" music part of mainstream America in recent years. But TW needs to check out some facts before he draws broad assumptions about Cubans in Miami. The people who led the economic boom were the PROFESSIONALS AND EDUCATED PEOPLE who fled Cuba. They arrived beginning in the early 60's, and men who had been doctors in their native countries were willing to work as janitors. Those families rose to the top again within one generation. Cristina Saralegui's family were publishers in Cuba and they became publishers again in the US. TW is referencing the "MARIEL BOATLIFT" phenomenon which came later, when Castro deliberately emptied the prisons and insane asylums of the dregs of Cuba and sent them in a wave to the US. Boats were actually forced to take these scum or they could not leave. It was not a "rush to freedom", it was a Communist regime seizing a window of opportunity to get rid of the trash which they didn't have the resources to support. These criminals and other undesirables hit Florida and busily went about doing what got them into prison in Cuba in the first place, and to this day Florida has not been able to deport them or deal with them as normal refugees or immigrants, giving them almost a Guantanamo status. They also dispersed quickly to other states, causing a mini "Cuban Crime Wave" until law enforcement realized what was happening and began to deal with it. TW would do well to find out how even other Cuban refugees did not embrace the "Marielitos" and didn't appreciate how they negatively impacted the gains other Cubans had been accomplishing in previous years. Tonchi also personally knows two girls who came over with the Mariel Boatlift. They were scum in Cuba and they are scum in Miami; these girls led an attack on Latin star Paulina Rubio at an awards program, disgracing our fan club and other decent Latinos on national television. Don't make assumptions or give a knee-jerk reaction to "Cubans" in Florida, because you are giving credit across the board and it is not due to all. And definitely do not use the word Mariel around any professionals you meet in Miami, because it is an insult. Even immigrants and refugees have groups they discriminate against For the differences in the Cuban community which I have mentioned above, California IS NOT the same dynamic as Miami. For one thing, it is a heck of a lot easier to get into California by land, but we do not have the "catch and release" principles running our INS here. In Florida, any Cuban who makes it ashore in the US may stay; if they intercept your boat on the water, you get sent back. Mexicans do not have the same privileges. They are fair game on both sides of the border, but nevertheless many of them come and go constantly, taking money and consumer goods back to relatives which remain in Mexico. Money earned by Mexicans working in the USA and sent home is now the largest income source in their country, having passed petroleum and tourism. I don't intend to discuss the despicable "Plantation Economy" of Fresno County and much of California which encourages importation of cheap and degraded labor. It would take a Federal Commission and 10 years of investigation to make any inroads to stopping that, and besides, I already said elsewhere that I believe it will go around and come back to bite us in the ass if we don't address the problems which our society is creating here and everywhere there is an uneducated and unskilled underbelly. Yes, I believe that California will be a different and not automatically worse place because of the immigrants. They will contribute a new vitality, but only when they get out from under the Plantation Economy which brought most of them here in the first place. They have nothing in common with the Cubans except dialects of the same language (except for the Mixtecs, but that is a different problem). The Mexicans who came here were lucky to have a 4th grade education, they were not doctors and upper/middle-class people fleeing political oppression. Everything they have achieved was gained HERE, they have really intended to improve themselves and their lives and that is the epitome of the American Dream. In doing that, they have also improved the lives of uncounted millions of Mexicans, who are enjoying the benefits back home and adding to the economy there. Yes, California will ultimately benefit, but we still have hanging over our heads the FACT that the number of people in the state has doubled in the last 25-30 years. Right now we simply can't take care of them, and THAT problem is getting worse instead of better. Everybody suffers as a result. That is why I believe we have to seal our borders and control entry to this country, and screw all the conspicuous consumers who think they need maids and gardeners and below-minimum-wage janitors at Walmart. It's not racism to say "this has got to stop now", we don't need 10 million more Norwegians any more than we can absorb 10 million more Mexicans. This is not what France is facing, however. One of the few things Reagan said that I agreed with was when he told the story about how a person from ANY country - no matter what color, religion, or background - could BE an American. We are an entire nation of immigrants, it is our strength and not our weakness. But Reagan said you can't go to Italy and become an Italian or to France and become French the same way. The problem in France is so painful because they are facing a crisis of their national identity if the Muslim immigration continues unchecked. They can't be "absorbed", and that is what keeps them second-class or worse there. It's not a matter of "there is no more room for you", it's a lot deeper rejection than that. That is why the resentment is boiling over and why the reaction to it is so violent. It's going to be very difficult for them to resolve this. It's not a matter of passing a few civil rights laws to make the minorities happy anymore. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true. Last edited by Tonchi; 11-07-2005 at 04:50 PM.