[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by marichiko

I made the comment I did because some folks were getting all huffy about how THEIR ancestors came here legally like this somehow made them better than more recent immigrants. 100 years ago, the US was begging for immigrants. It was no big deal to come here legally. 300 years ago Britain used the southern colonies as a dumping ground for undesirables back in the British Isles. In MY case, I was just pointing out that the fact that my ancestors coming here legally in chains did not make them better than the folks who now come here illegally to work and are forced to LEAVE in chains.

The ancestors who came legally are no "better" than the new immigrants who come legally. However, both of those groups are entitled to more than the illegal immigrants of both generations. We owe our citizens lifelibertyandthepursuitofhappiness, but we don't owe anyone else's citizens dick. That said, there is an argument to be made that we should worry about our neighbors before we worry about Africa. But just managing to walk across a fence and swim a river does not make you a citizen.

Incidentally, the dictionary definition of "immigrant" is "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence", not "anyone who wants to get a seasonal job in one country and take the money home to another country, while taking advantage of the services and welfare systems of the first."

The statement I made to Wolf still stands. I do not see how we can place the full blame on the Mexican illegal worker when it is the American farmers, ranchers and businessmen who hire them under the table, knowing full well that they are illegals. You can't place the sole responsibility on the Mexican workers.

Very true. The American side of the equation must be dealt with, as well. But I'm curious....what would you say if you heard that the vast number of illegals coming across the border every year was being denied work and turned back at every doorstep they came to? I suspect that we would be considered evil and heartless, and the left would demand that "something be done," probably in the form of more tax money going to handouts.

WE are a finite country, and we must accept this fact. There are only so many jobs here to go around. We would be committing suicide as a nation to just throw our southern border open to all who wanted to cross it.

Right. So what are you arguing about?

Mexican workers do fill a certain need in the labor market, however. They will work harder and for lower wages and benefits than most American workers are willing to work for.

The only way for this to occur is for American ranchers, etc., to hire them illegally. If they are here legally, they must be paid minimum wage. They could also unionize. The left is guilty of racism on this issue. Not the "hang all [race]" racism, but "you're [race], so you're obviously not equipped to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Because of your race, we'll give you a pass." Patronizing and wrong.

We can put up a 20 foot concrete wall that runs continuously from San Diego to El Paso and gun down all illegals on sight. We will then pay a higher price for any number of agricultural products, services, etc. We can re-instate something like the old Bracero program where Mexican workers come in legally for short periods of time to do the work they do for bargain prices and then go home. We can crack down HARD on employers who use illegals. It is these employers, as much as anyone else, who are forcing the American tax payer to cover schooling, etc, for the illegals. The Mexican people want to work. That's all. We can't let all of them in, but we could stop looking at just one aspect of the problem and look to the bigger picture for solutions.

So where would you personally draw the line? We can't let "all" of them in, so which ones should we allow? Which should we turn back? What is the point of cracking down on employers if you're not going to stem the supply of cheap, illegal labor? Maybe Nancy Reagan could come and tell them to Just Say No?

As far as the hispanic population of Southern Colorado, do you know what you're talking about?

Intimately. At any rate, I was agreeing with you. You shouldn't argue when people are agreeing with you. I was saying that there are 32 decent hardworking Mexicans per useless militia-member white nut.

But I fell into the race trap, at any rate. My bad -- this isn't about race, as much as the left wishes it were.

Ooh. I have to call my Hispanic lawyer and make sure he got the whole $1700 for my DUI case. It almost broke me to pay him, but I'm sure his bambinos will appreciate the extra tortillas, particularly since he's in the Bahamas this week and can't support the family.