Posted by Sycamore in IOTD but I think we should pull the discussion back to this part of The Cellar
Quote:
You guys are a microcosm of sorts.
We have a few people that seem to be pro-Israeli, from the US. We have a New Zealander, an Australian, and a Brazilian that seem to be pro-Palestinian. (And my apologies to all if I am mistaking your views here).
But this seems to be the case in the world as a whole. The US are staunch supporters of the State of Israel, while most of the world seems to favor the Palestinians.
So...what are we not connecting on here? Are we just seeing it through different eyes? Are we affected by our media sources (on both sides)? To me, it just seems that there is more to it than our own personal statements (even if loaded with facts).
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Bravo Sycamore, I was thinking myself that we ought to try to move to a meta discussion on this topic, as the topic when it rears its ugly head on occasion gets nowhere, I personally have intended to quit the discussion but I then see something posted by a participant with an opposing view and think "that can't go unchallenged", But it is as you noted perhaps interesting if we try to see how it is we have ended up in these two camps seeing as as far as I can tell no Israeli or Palestinian is posting to the boards.
I guess I am a member of the Pro-Palestinian camp, although I think I have to point out that that doesn't mean I support the terrorist actions of Palestinian extremists, in fact I don't think I have seen anyone post support of those tactics, just perhaps comprehension of how such a pointless and inhumane tactic has been chosen, to go partisan for a minute, I have on the other hand seen a fair bit of support for the current oppressive tactics of the Israeli state by the other camp.
I see the position of the Pro-Palestinian camp as being that an injustice was and is being wroth on the Palestinian People and that until a just peace offer is put on the table by Israel and the Palestinian People are offered something that gives then a stake in the future, until that time there will not be Peace in the region. Generally the Pro-Palestinian camp will see current Israeli tactics as an attempt to drown any hope of negotiated settlement in cries of "security first!" despite the likelihood that prolonged frustration will just increase those willing to do anything to destroy Israel, the purpose of this exercise in frustration is to allow settlers to create a reality of an Israeli West Bank.
Ok I have stated, perhaps overstated, my position, who am I and is that determining why I have this opinion?
I am Irish, I live in Portugal, I work (telecommute) in the UK, I guess I should be described as a European. In Portugal and Ireland most people would share similar opinions to mine, most people in the UK, although the Prime Ministers wife Cherie Booth got into trouble politically the other day for saying that the suicide boomers where desperate people, so I guess, as in quite a few other matters, quite a few people in the UK must share an opinion closer to the US than Europe on this issue.
The media in Europe is more likely to report from a Palestinian perspective, but recently I have not been getting most of my information that way. My own opinion on this matter has wavered in the last ten years, as a teenager I saw myself as a political radical, I bet others just saw me as somebody who needed a bath, so clearly I was in the Palestinian camp, however perhaps as a reaction to my father’s mild to annoying anti Semitism, he can't see anyone with even slightly Semitic features come on the TV without giving a "damn Jewboy!" comment..this can be amusing sometimes as it can illustrate just how out of it he is..I saw him stare and stare at the subject of a TV interview the other day until finally he comes out with his revelation "I think Woody Allen is Jewish!", anyway to piss the old man off I went to spend a summer on a Kibbutz and I guess a lot of my resistance to Israel melted away there, from day to day you saw few Arabs, you mixed with Israelis who seemed kind of cool. I guess I left there thinking Israel has a right to defend herself, I guess I'd have found myself comfortable in undertoad's camp if not dhamsaic's. So how did I make the switch again? I think it is the Internet and my love of history, perhaps it is also the media, I tend if I see a thought provoking TV report or online news report (news.bbc.co.uk mostly) I tend to follow it through google, and I think as I began to appreciate the history of the situation I began to see more that an injustice had been done, So that is how I have the opinion I have. I'd be interested to hear how people arrived at their opinions, perhaps more so then the opinions, let us be honest here not a lot of minds or hearts are being changed here.