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Originally Posted by Undertoad
tw, just a quick note... I've been an atheist all my life. Wanted to make that one clear.
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Actually, I tried to raise a discussion about religion and pagan beliefs long ago in another thread. No one wanted to bite.
I am not an atheist. But I am not a Muslim, Christian, or Jew in the conventional sense. My problem with all these religions. They all have the same pagan worship that was problematic with Greek and Roman religions.
If a god has a will, then a god is only human. A real god is not on anyone's side. Pagan religions have problems with this concept. Pagan religions need to see everything in 'good and evil'.
These concepts - their religions and mine - should be no problem as long as these pagan religions don't forget their purpose. Religion is only a relationship between one person and his god. Anytime that relationship is imposed on any other person, then that religion has then become satanic worship.
I suspect that concept is too new, too different, or too threatening for others. But then I am not trying to impose religious beliefs on anyone else.
However, that is not true of the Muslim Brotherhood which in many ways is very much like the worst Zionists and is now proclaimed by right wing religious American fundamental Christians. So are all these religions united to attack me? Of course not. That would be interpreting the world as George Jr sees it.
Take this same line of reasoning further. Who should we now blame for creating the Israel Arab problem? There is no black and white viewpoint. However, "blame tw. He is clearly a threat because he is not of our religion." If I saw everything in black and white, then I would have to expect 'them' to all think just that. The Arab Israeli problem is more found in intolerance - a concept that the great Middle East writer Kahlil Gibran exposed.
There is no good and evil, per say. There are numerous parties all with different prespectives. Difficult to explain to a nation (America) who sees Al Qaeda everywhere and that is now so contrary to what Gibran wrote. If it is a Muslim fundamentalist, then it must be Al Qaeda? Again reality is far more complex. Insurgents in Iraq are not Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda has come and has probably gone. This is more the nature of Muslim Brotherhood. To better understand the Arab world, assume that Al Qaeda no longer exists and but another branch of the Muslim Brotherhood has risen to attack the enemies of Islam. And in a few years they will be replaced by others.
Ever wonder why Americans have so much trouble understanding the Arab world and its insurgencies? Americans want to see everything as if all were a common enemy. Does not work that way. Muslim Brotherhood or Wanahabism is not a fixed entity. There is no single enemy. At best, we are trying to attack a concept. A concept we call Al Qaeda - so that we can explain it all only in black and white; good and evil. Unfortunately, by attacking the concept, we threaten the religion and only make more enemies. Ever try to punch out a ghost? This is the problem with the George Jr war on terror. There is no terrorist to attack. Just a lot of insurgents mostly created by America. That is the problem with attacking something you don't understand - be it trying to impose democracy on people not interested or trying to wipe out the VietCong in Vietnam. A military war cannot be won against a concept. Maybe readers of Mao might better explain this. Even King George of 1775 England also made the same mistake.
We never first learned why the enemy existed. We foolishly think we were winning a war because we won every battle. One cannot win a war if one does not first properly define the "enemy". In Vietnam, we were doomed to lose because "we met the enemy and he was us". Without first understanding what the Muslim, Arab, Iranian, etc people want, then we are as doomed as Britian was in India and Afghanistan.
There is no fixed enemy in the Muslim world unless we create it. However we are creating more ghostly enemies every week in Iraq. Just like in Vietnam, they are enemies of our creation for numerous reasons - including our religious biases and some god forsaken need to impose democracy on people who do not (yet) want democracy.