[tw]

Originally Posted by tw

Even if Iraqis were only looting the Bradley, still is no reason to missile those people.

Originally Posted by lookout123

yes it would be. you absolutely do not let vital equipment, especially communications equipment fall into enemy hands. end of story.

So we recruit for the insurgents to protect equipment? If the equipment was so vital, then why did soldiers leave it? Why would they abandon vital equipment in a town that supposidely wants American liberators? This event demonstrates a major disconnect. Same disconnect that resulted in thousands of American lives sacrificed in VietNam.

If Iraqis wanted liberation as George Jr has said, then why would soldiers even with 'armor' abandon vital equipment. At a minimum, they could have removed vital stuff. Even tossed a few grenades inside. Soldiers and armor are suffering from increasing insurgency than even 3 months ago. The latter confirmed by other sources and demonstrated by this event. It suggests that administration spin is a lie.

Reporters, private contractors, and other nationals are saying this. Local temper is gently and increasingly becoming more anti-American. When a US helicopter does exactly what Israeli choppers do to Palestinians, then how do things get any better? When we start attacking even Turkmen, then who is left to be American allies? Using a missile to destroy vital equipment on streets containing civilians is only justified if the streets are full of unfriendlies. Obviously from the video, there were not masses of armed insurgents. So why would helicopters fire? Do we abandon equipment quickly - hope that choppers can destroy vital equipment later - because anti-American sentiment is that widespread even in Baghdad? Or was this and other events simply acts of cowboy chopper pilots?

No we will not agree because I have long been warning about this Iraqi war. It is proceeding as predicted The expression from the military was "200,000 troops and 2 years". What has changed? The military was apparently correct. Almost 2 years later with insufficient troops and things are worsening.

Some Lie. Others Define a Solution
Until reasons for political violence are removed, then an organized military response is doomed to failure. History says that repeatedly and too often.

These posts were about 1 year ago. Please feel free to demonstrate any positive progress since then in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

UT also posted about 1 year ago in Major Concession
tw, who is here and doesn't speak the language, but listens to reporters who don't speak the language, feels he understands it with precision.

Some details were inaccurate. But please show me, UT, where things got better one year later. Iraq continues to slowly worsen as predicted. Number of insurgents have doubled. Where is a solution? Where is the exit strategy? Where is all this international support? As I predicted, based upon both knowledge and previous experience, we now stew in our own juices.

No we still will not agree because what I said then still applies today. I did not believe a lying president and his "mission accomplished" nonsense. Facts then predicted things will get worse. And so they have. So bad that soldiers even abandon vital equipment in the streets.

I have nothing to apologize for. Iraq is going just as it should considering the lessons of history - ie 1960s Vietnam. lookout123 does not have that perspective. Things are slowly getting worse as insurgents recruit even more soldiers thanks to helicopters firing missiles on civilians and TV reporters. Our Iraqi allies will not even fight - just as in Vietnam. The administration claims these were only isolated incidents or a result of insufficient training? Bull. Its called spin to deceive the American public. Having been here 30+ years ago, the expression is Deja Vue. As noted previously, lookout123, your perspective is not tempered by having lived through these same 'accidents' and listening to your predecessors making the same claims. These problems directly traceable to the president and his administration. No exit strategy. No strategic objective. Reasons for political violence remain. No political solution. Even total ignorance of SzeTsu's 500 BC lesson - Art of War.

We will never agree if you deny these facts. Your perspective will not permit you to admit that both Iraq and Afghanistan are slowly worsening - just like Vietnam. Both wars (Iraq and Vietnam) having been staged on presidential lies. Both wars conducted without a smoking gun. Its called "Making of a Quagmire". It starts with a lying president. When do we recall the movie "Wag the Dog". It applies.

I stand by my comments made so many years previously. What we have today and in lookout123's reponses were predictable. Deja Vue.