The Cellar - Who won tonight's Vice-Presidential Debate?

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Who won tonight's Vice-Presidential Debate?

Sarah Palin looked like a frightened deer caught in someone's headlights. She kept repeating herself. She was snarky and really a joke. That being said, she wasn't as horrible as expected.

Biden looked smooth except for when he got a bit emotional about the loss of his wife and daughter in a car accident and mentioned that he raised kids too.

He did a good job of not beating her up so badly people would think he was mean. He focused on the issues and the facts and kept hammering the issue that Bush = Insane and McCain = Bush.

The power was out until the last 1/2 hour so I didn't see a lot of it. That said I think it was close enough that supporters won't move so it should go back to issues. Palin's expectations were pretty low so she came out okay. Mrs. Palin really made my blood run cold when she indicated that they'd be subverting the Constitution playing Cheney's unitary executive game. I've really been looking elsewhere since neither major party candidate opposed nationalizing the economy, but the GOP, which continues to pursue EL Duce's agenda must be stopped.

I watched it. I stayed up til silly o'clock to do so *grins*

Palin wasn't the moron I'd expected given her recent tv appearances.

Out of the two, stepping entirely away from policy for a moment (obviously I hate everything that Palin stands for policy-wise) I think I preferred Biden's style. I like my politicians to have a sense of humour but I also like them to be serious and, preferably, clever people. He seemed more willing to answer the question he'd been asked, rather the one he wanted to answer. He appealed more to reason than emotion. Palin was quite strong when she stuck to facts and rational policy ideas, unfortunately those areas that she was able to do that seemed few and far between and she seemed to me to resort to wooly emotional appeals far too much.

I didn't like the constant smiling. She reminded me of Hazel Blears (one for the brits) a prominent Labour Party politician who also plays the feisty ass-kicking girlie card to the max and never stops smiling and being up-for-it: all that "you betcha" folksy bollox. I also didn't like having her family credentials shoved down my throat in the place of policy ideas.

There were a couple of times that I felt like she made a connection, like she showed something of her self. Can't recall exactly which bits they were now, but that brittle folksiness slipped and showed a strong and forceful woman who has survived and succeeded in a very male world and seemingly on her own terms. Difficult not to admire that.

I warmed to Biden. I don't like my politicians to wear their emotions on their sleeves, but nor do I want them to be inhuman and detached. It's a fine balance. They are not just themselves when they serve the people they are also their office. There needs to be a balance between passion and caring, and the professional detachment needed for the Office to be bigger than the person occupying it. I think it was to Biden's credit that he didn't bring up his own parental background sooner within the debate, because Palin was playing the Mom card pretty much from the start.

Politicians are private people and public servants. Politicians who base their primary appeal on their private identity, rather than their public record, or relevant expertise tend to worry me somewhat :P They set my teeth on edge.

whenever i hear her talk
i cant help but hear, in my head
"and I guess that was your accomplice in the wood chipper"

yeah yeah, i know, minnesota and alaska accents arent the same, but they sound close enough.

Biden was the clear winner, he came off as much more presidential and knowledgeable. But Palin didn't crash and burn the way a lot of people were expecting/hoping, so in a sense, she was the winner. Expectations have a lot to do with the perceived winner. Going into the debate, Biden could only lose ground, and Palin could only gain ground. Biden didn't lose any ground, and Palin gained some.

Palin was the winner because she didn't suck as hard as we've come to anticipate? COME ON! You don't "win" a debate simply because you look less stupid than you did before. Stupid is stupid. Mrs. Palin is stooooopit. And all her "you betcha's!" and "soccer mom" whoring makes me want to puke. If America votes for the McCain/Palin ticket it will get exactly what it deserves and I, for one, will be stocking up on soup and marking my calendar. I may even allow myself a 'B' in English class.

Early in the debate, I was getting the uneasy feeling FOR her that I got in her interviews with Couric. She picked up speed, and did well projecting who she is.

However, she skirted a lot of questions, going back to the "known" whereas Biden answered the questions that were asked, with knowledge that you don't get from being coached.

I did not expect the show of emotion from Biden, and I did not know about his family and his tragedy. That was important to me: Palin is painted as the be-all, end-all of parenting, and you don't hear a lot about the other candidate's family lives.

I thought it was a good debate. I was impressed with the class shown by both candidates. Biden was the clear winner to me, however, and I thought he was outstanding.

Oh, and what Bri said...:)

Oh, and lol at Ibby!

If I post what I really think, I'll get in even more trouble.

My take: Palin held her own and preached what she was supposed to preach. She hammered to death and beyond the "Maverick" mantra. Her tone bothers me and her voice sounds well . . . annoying.

Biden, who I am VERY familiar with, was the consummate politician. He was smooth as silk and did a great job of making McCain = Bush. That was his talking point and he equally hammered that home and back again.

Between the two of them, the disparity of experience was obvious. They both did about what I expected from them. However, they are the VP candidates and should be considered as such.

Quote:

SARAH PALIN’S 18 LIES TONIGHT

1. FANNIE MAE/FREDDIE MAC: Palin said “it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures,” but fact checkers say that’s “Quite A Stretch” And “Barely True,” and that McCain was a “latecomer” to the discussion.

2. FUNDAMENTALS ARE STRONG: Palin tried to say “John McCain saying our economy was strong” but McCain has used the phrase “The Fundamentals Of The Economy Are Strong” At Least 16 Times This Year.

3. PARTISAN POLITICS: Palin said McCain is “known for putting partisan politics aside to just get the job done,” but he has voted with Bush 90% of the time in the Senate and bragged about his support for Bush on important issues.

4. TAXES ATTACK: Palin repeated the attack that Obama voted for higher taxes 94 times, which the New York Times says is “false,” CNN says is “Misleading,” and FactCheck.org says is “inflated.”

5. TOBACCO REGULATION: Palin said to “look at the tobacco industry” as an example of McCain pushing for even harder and tougher regulations. But McCain opposed expanding the SCHIP children’s health insurance program for 5.8 million children because it would increase tobacco taxes.

6. SPENDING INCREASES: Palin said Obama is is proposing “nearly a trillion dollars in new spending,” but didn’t mention that he has also proposed cuts to balance it out, an attack CNN has already debunked as “misleading” and that ignores the far larger cost of McCain’s tax cuts and spending hikes.

7. HEALTH CARE: Palin claimed Obama’s health plan is “government run” which has been widely debunked as a “canard.”

8. HEALTH CARE. Palin says taxes wouldn’t go up under the McCain health care plan, a fact even his own campaign has acknowledged isn’t true.

9. TROOPS: Palin repeated what the AP called the “highly misleading” attack that Obama opposed funding for the troops, and Factcheck.org notes that the same methodology would lead to the same conclusion for McCain.

10. GLOBAL WARMING: Palin said “I don’t want to argue about the causes” for global warming, when she has clearly taken the position that she doesn’t not believe it is man-made.

11. MCCAIN IS CONSISTENT: Palin said McCain” doesn’t tell one thing to one group and then turns around and tells something else to another group,” when that is exactly what he has done on immigration, telling Hispanic leaders he was for comprehensive reform instead of the enforcement focused approach he has taken with conservatives.

12. MCCLELLAN NOT MCKIERNAN: Palin referred to the US commander in Afghanistan, David McKiernan as “McClellan.”

13. MCKIERNAN ON “SURGE:” Palin said that [McKiernan] did not say a surge wouldn’t work in Afghanistan, when just yesterday he said “The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ’surge,’ ” McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution

14. KILLING CIVILIANS. Palin said “Obama had said that all we’re doing in Afghanistan is air raiding villages and killing civilians and such a reckless, reckless comment and untrue comment again hurts our cause. That’s not what we are doing there.” Unfortunately, the Associated Press says that Obama was right in discussing a critically important point about avoiding civilian casualties.

15. TEACHING: Palin said we need to make sure “that education in either one of our agendas, I think, absolute top of the line,” when McCain has repeatedly favored tax cuts for the wealthy over funds for more teachers and class size reduction.

16. PARTISAN APPOINTMENTS: Palin said “You do what I did as governor. And you appoint people regardless of party affiliation. Democrats, independents, Republicans, you walk the walk, don’t just talk the talk” when she repeatedly appointed friends and supporters to positions for which they weren’t qualified.

17. FOCUS ON CLIMATE CHANGE: Palin falsely claimed that she was the first governor to form a climate change subcabinet, when at least 28 states had already taken action.

18. DARFUR DIVESTMENT: Palin claimed that “when I and others” found out that the state had money invested in Sudan that “we called for divestment,” when the reality is that Palin’s appointees worked to kill a Darfur divestment plan.

Quote:

JOE BIDEN’s LIES IN THE DEBATE:

Joe Biden’s 14 Lies

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say that specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALTERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

Well, get used to her. (not even taking that hat marinade off the shelf)

She may lie a lot but she's faux-folksy, too! Just like me!!

Your darn right and you betcha I'm gonna hurl right into my hockey mask---right after I shoot this wolf with a high powered rifle from my helicopter, force rape victims to pay for their own rape kits and set women back a thousand years!

YAY!

8. HEALTH CARE. Palin says taxes wouldn’t go up under the McCain health care plan, a fact even his own campaign has acknowledged isn’t true.

In other words: read my lips, no new taxes.

It's worked for a long time: those damn overspending freaking democrats want to tax your feet, your trees, and your snot. We 'pubs won't tax you no more, no how.

Really do people still fall for that?

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

I just skimmed this before this leapt out at me. What he actually said was: We should be creating jobs. John McCain has voted 20 times against funding alternative energy sources and thinks, I guess, the only answer is drill, drill, drill. Drill we must, but it will take 10 years for one drop of oil to come out of any of the wells that are going to begun to be drilled.

He was pointing to THEM saying drill drill drill,drill we must...

I got the actual quote from the debate transcript but yes, I watched the debate, and immediately saw the out of context error there. Too bad more Americans don't pay attention.

Where is that from xoB?