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loTEK911 05-24-2007 08:54 AM

Target practise
 
Yesterday I heard on the news that North and South Korea are... suing? Japan for using Asian women as sex slaves during WW2. 60+ years after the fact. I ask myself. Is this right? morally, yes. Of course. But 60+ years later? This is politics? And it begs the question, where in history does morality and politics fit? Politics is an easy one. History is written by th victor. everybody knows that. So how do we sit back an accept th bull shit morality that is fed to us. This is going to be a stretch , so bare with me. And understand that I'm just a 28 yr old bartender. I got into history maybe 6 years ago. Politics maybe 2 years ago. I was raised and educated in this country. I bought into the lie because I had no choice. Christopher Columbus was the discoverer of our country. Not a fame seeking debtor who brought rape, murder and disease to a small island people somewhere off the main land of America. General/President George Washington was a hero and a patriot. Not a rebellious firebrand and a traitor to his own country. The founding fathers were a group of spiritual and educated savants who created an oasis of personal freedom and a dream of self betterment. Not a pack of business men looking for absolute freedom of profit. President Lincoln freed the black slaves because he felt it was wrong and immoral. Not because he knew that any disruption behind enemy lines, specifically economic, would disrupt the Confederate war effort. I learned about the horror of the holocaust, the indescriminent bombing of London. Pearl harbor. These glory days where we shined. Beat back the bad guys. The just and fair war. Hiroshima. Nagasaki. Dresden. We are no better or worse then our enemy's in many ways! We won our revolutionary war using the same tactics that N Vietnam used against us. That Afghanistan used against the USSR. That Afghanistan and the international extremest use against us now. The leaders spoke and the small folk listened. And acted. We try and execute or assassinated opposing leaders and say it's humanitarian. We charge war crimes to countries and say it's just. And yet we know, no empire lasts forever. When will we be held accountable for our actions? When will we see an American president executed for war crimes. When will we see our hard earned tax dollars go to another country to compensate for the death and horror we caused. And when we do, will it be to ease the suffering of that country? Or will it be for the pride and pockets of the leaders of that state? When does it end? I'm not a sympathizer of any cause. I'm not hard left or hard right. I'm not religious. I'm not a dirty hippy with a pathetic dream of world peace. I believe in simple things. Judge each man and woman by their actions and ability. Respect your those around you. Live to your potential. Take responsibility for your actions. Never, ever victimize yourself. But then, I don't run a country or an international business. I just run a night club. What do I know? I'm jus another over sized kid who bought the lie. But now it's not holding. And my head hurts from it all. Tell me I'm full of it. Or have we hit one of those common points in history where the world is so crazy we would rather hide our heads in the sand and just let the crazies rant and rave?

tw 05-24-2007 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loTEK911 (Post 346375)
Is this right? morally, yes. Of course. But 60+ years later? This is politics? And it begs the question, where in history does morality and politics fit? Politics is an easy one. History is written by th victor. everybody knows that. So how do we sit back an accept th bull shit morality that is fed to us. This is going to be a stretch , so bare with me.

Morality being only an excuse to justify things based on emotions such as religious beliefs.

Rightly noted are similarities between the bombing of London, Dresden, Tokyo, Guernica, and N Vietnam. In each case, bombing had no military significance; only attacked civilian population. Well, in WWII, that concept was not fully understood. So explain the bombing of Hanoi?

You have assumed the victor rewrites history. Did you read a Japanese history book? What does it say about Pearl Harbor? Whereas Germans were confronted by the Holocaust, Japanese still remain rather defiant of their history. Why is the USS Arizona so often visited by Japanese. Some regard that as a great victory.

That lawsuit is simply a demand that Japanese acknowledge facts that remain mostly denied by the Japanese public - such as the rape of Nanking.

For that matter, some Americans still remain defiantly ignorant about America's unjustified attacks on Vietnam or why America created the situation that would break down into the 'killing fields'. Do you still deny those realities of Nam? If America was defeated in Nam, then why do so many Americans remain in denial as to why that defeat was obviously pre-ordained?

One can argue merits of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However those bombings were performed for a strategic purpose. Maybe the target selection was - as you put it - immoral. But the bombing itself had a strategic purpose; meets a definition of 'purpose of war'.

But again, morality has nothing to do with it. One can say "Mission Accomplished" is immoral. But that completely ignores facts as to why "Mission Accomplished" exists and why America cannot win that war. Morality has nothing to do with it.

Start by asking, "What is the purpose of war?" To obtain an answer, that is why we teach history: hoping to drive 'political agendas' out of how historical facts are presented. In America's history, those who advocate war where war was not justified typically cannot even answer this question - "What is the purpose of war?"

Somehow their 'morality' justifies that war - facts be damned. This paragraph specifically cites "Misson Accomplished" as the perfect example.

piercehawkeye45 05-24-2007 06:14 PM

Should Japan have to pay, no. Their leaders should be punished but they are most likely dead. There is no need to fine a country what their ancestors did.

But lets look on the bright side......North and South Korea are actually on the same side on this issue.

tw 05-24-2007 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 (Post 346549)
But lets look on the bright side......North and South Korea are actually on the same side on this issue.

Almost all other East Asian nations are in agreement with this.

Looking at a tree and not seeing the forest. It's not about Japan paying. That payment is just a tree. It's about getting Japan to acknowledge - stop denying - events such as the rape of Nanking. I was rather surprised while working with employees of Hitachi. Pearl Harbor to Japanese is not the despicable event that Americans view it. Pearl Harbor is more often considered a necessary Japanese military victory. A Japanese Prime Minister visits a shrine to dead Japanese soldiers in part because Japanese don't regard their military actions as genocide or violations of human rights.

Did the winners get to rewrite history? Not in Japanese text books. That is the forest. Payment - only a tree.


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