"isolated incident"
 

A few of you have probably already seen this: More photos of US troops abusing Iraqi prisoners.
Here
These ones date from before the main bunch that caused such a ruckus.

How do we know those are Iraqi prisoners?
How do we know they are being abused?
Every picture tells a story but lets not embellish the story with vivid imaginations. All we know is what we see. :eyebrow:

Well if a cop sat on you, you'd probably consider it abuse. If they (well in breach of the geneva convention) pointed a gun at you and took photos...and one of them is bloodied. jamming people into the backs of trucks isn't exactly best practice either.
most of it's been confirmed, there's another doc on cryptome, I'll dig it up when I get a minute. It's also backed by the (now public) investigation and the fact AP is carrying the story.

Did they behead the prisoners?

What's your point? UT? That until america sinks worse than anyone else on earth, it's all good?

That would depend on how and why but lets get first things first. They are not cops, repeat, they are not cops. They are soldiers (War Fighters) and they are not rounding up some neighborhood delinquents. Remember the pictures (many, many, many) of the guys with sneakers, hoods & RPGs?
Excuse me....it's against the Geneva convention for a soldier (War Fighter) to point a gun at an enemy combatant/prisoner? Taking pictures is a no-no, but we haven't determined just who these people are yet. As for one of them being bloodied, I work for a living and get bloodied probably 3 times a week. Shit happens and we have no idea what the shit was leading up to these pictures being taken. Why is that? Looks less crowded than a Jap subway train. maybe they are laying down so their buddies out there don't shoot them along with the Americans. They wouldn't think twice about it, you know. The particulars behind these pictures have been confirmed? When? Where? By whom? That must have been the fastest investigation ever performed by the US military/Government in history.

Look, I'm not saying these aren't pictures of American soldiers (War Fighters) abusing Iraqui prisioners. I'm saying that these pictures don't tell me a damn thing. It's not fair to draw conclusions from the pictures and call it history/fact. :eyebrow:

No jag, it's like this. War is fucking hell. You only have to look a few images down to see "insurgents" aiming RPGs at US AND IRAQI forces, so what kind of pussy, frankly, do you have to be to look at some pretty fucking innocent images above that and cry abuse?

War is hell. The "insurgents" would kill you too if they could. Do you know who the enemy is? This is no time to be such a whining, simpering, crying little baby. Pull your nappies off and put on some pants and be a man, for crying out loud.

Put me in that theoretical position and I'm doing the same goddamn thing. Put you in and I bet you are too - after you soil yourself multiple times, of course.

UT if you are going to be so righteous as to violate American principles, then please explain why we had the right to cause the death of 98,000 Iraqis in only two years. Clearly like in Vietnam, they were all gooks? At what point do you change from American to Stalinist?

Does not matter if their peers point nuclear bombs at us. We don't abuse prisoners. This is why so many Americans came home alive in WWII. They have the right to point RPGs at unwelcome invaders lead by an outright lying president who Pearl Harbored their country. That is war. We have no right to abuse those prisoners IF we want more of our people to come home. And you have no right to justify torture - if you are calling yourself moral.

We Gitmoized those people, in part, because most were not even guilty. Because innocent people cannot tell us what we want to know, then that is sufficient to justify torture? Please explain where your morality begins.

In WWII, often when they ran out of prison space for Germans they just shot them.

This is why so many Americans came home alive in WWII. And when they came home they were celebrated and called the greatest generation.

Oh...I thought that was just Tom Brokaw trying to hawk a book.

Is this also where you obtained facts about the aluminum tubes? It was well understood by Germans that one fights Russians to the death and do anything necessary to surrender alive to Americans. German civilians were relieved when their own were captured by Americans. That meant their family members would be seen again. Germans often did not fight Americans to the death resulting in far fewer American deaths.

Where is this long list of Iraqis working for Americans? Thank you Abu Ghraid and other UT approved torture. Tell me, UT? Where is light at the end of your tunnel - now that all who look ugly should be tortured? How many thousands of Americans will die throughout Central Asia because people like you are so moral as to even advocate torture? Do you also approve of the 98,000 dead Iraqis killed as a result of an illegal US invasion? That also is consistent with the morally you are promoting.

It would be hypocritical for you to have a magentic yellow ribbon (Support the Troops) on your car. Advocating torture as you do means you want more Americans to die. How moral.

BTW, I don't really care about pictures any more. Its a forgone conclusion that torture was authorized as the highest levels of government. That the decisions were withheld from both Rice and Powell under orders from Cheney. Rice was furious. Powell remained quiet as the good soldier. That we know. What we don't know is how extensive the torture was and how serious the fallout from all the torture will be.

Remember all those orange alert threats? Many of them came as a result of Guantanamo 'debriefings'. This is what happens with torture. They tell you anything you want to know. And so we had all these silly, mythical threats from another terrorist attack. The last time, Tom Ridge has enough of these intelligence debriefings and refused to go from yellow to orange. The confrontation between he and Ashcroft then went public.

All this torture. Where is all the intelligence? Instead we ended up releasing hundreds of Guantanamo prisoners who are no long considered a threat. Go figure.

Well-said by both Bruce and TW, this one's a tough call.

Not to change the subject or anything, but I sure was hoping this would turn into a thread with some enlightening political commentary--as has been lacking recently on the Cellar. Wrong again. It's turned into yet another personal attack on someone because they have different point of view about something. What a shame, and how boring.

They didn't look dead to me. Your really stretching the definition of torture here. The use of the word abuse is open to question too. That can run the gamut from butt fucking to insults.
Abuse and torture are two words that get thrown around without definition, leaving it up to anyone that hears them to fill in with their imagination. It's as clear as mud but it covers the ground, syndrome.
If you are going to make accusations then,who-what-where-when-by whom-to whom. To throw out blanket charges is emotional not rational or logical. :p

Well, thank you for doing your part. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Hell, you don't have to be right, just post your opinion (that's all they are) on the topic at hand instead of critiques of the posters.
I don't wish to make you the whipping girl, but please follow the logic. ;)

And YOUR post about me is therefore doing exactly the same thing. Maybe you should try to follow that "logic" too. Thanks.