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-   -   Creationism: from the US, with love (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=7911)

Troubleshooter 03-09-2005 03:20 PM

Creationism: from the US, with love
 
From The Scientist website:

The pressure from US religious groups to unseat the teaching of evolution as the sole construct in public schools shows no sign of slowing. In Georgia, Alabama, and Pennsylvania, as well as other states, individual school districts and state governments are grappling with suggestions that creationism be taught along with evolution. And the movement appears to be a new US export.

Across the Atlantic, those in charge of Britain's education system have been facing their own version of the God versus Darwin debate, albeit on a much smaller scale. For the past three years, a small group of schools in northeast England have been at the center of the controversy about teaching creationism. The schools, established under a government scheme that allows private benefactors to operate state schools, are run by the Emmanuel Schools Foundation, which is backed by the millionaire car dealer Peter Vardy.

For its part, the foundation says on its Web site that it "encourages an academic and inquisitive approach to spiritual matters including, amongst others, creation and the origins of life on earth." In 2002, Prime Minister Tony Blair said in Parliament he was happy about creationism being taught alongside evolution in state schools. Others, such as Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins, are not so happy. Dawkins, eight other leading scientists, and six top clergy wrote to Blair in 2002, pointing out that "Evolution is not, as spokesmen for the college maintain, a 'faith position' in the same category as the biblical account of creation.... It is a scientific theory of great explanatory power, able to account for a wide range of phenomena in a number of disciplines."

"It's important to get across that respectable church men are all supporters of evolution," Dawkins told The Scientist recently.

This year, a third school run by the Emmanuel Schools Foundation, Trinity College in Doncaster, is due to open. Plans for a fourth college were abandoned late last year after vocal opposition by a group of teachers and local parents.

Meanwhile, politicians are still debating the issue. On Jan. 31, 2005, in the House of Lords, Dick Taverne, of the Liberal Democrat party, asked the government whether the national curriculum will exclude the teaching of creationism in schools. Junior education minister Geoffrey Filkin replied that the curriculum for 14- to 16-year-old students calls for the teaching of evolution, variation, and selection. "They also consider different theories on the origin of the universe," Filkin said. "In all aspects of the national curriculum, we encourage pupils to consider different ideas and beliefs, and how scientific controversies can arise from different ways of interpreting evidence. That is the core of scientific inquiry."

Taverne shot back: "Since the Government is in favor of allowing choice between sense and nonsense, will it also allow children to be taught that the earth is flat and that the sun goes around the earth? Since there is a crisis in math teaching in schools, and some university chemistry departments are closing down, will the Government also offer as an alternative the teaching of astrology and alchemy?"

"It is extraordinary," Taverne went on, "that a Government and a Prime Minister who say they are in favor of science have allowed the introduction into our schools of the worst features of American fundamentalist, antiscience, pseudoscience nonsense."

In Dawkins' view, however, the situation in the United Kingdom isn't comparable to the United States. "We're not in the same dire straights as they are over there," he says. "I don't think it's a problem yet, but one must always be vigilant."

jaguar 03-09-2005 03:28 PM

Turning up in Australia too, can't you keep you bloody fundies on a shorter leash?

wolf 03-09-2005 03:35 PM

The Brits sent the religion over here first. It's really their fault, what with the persecution in the 17th century and all. Fundies are pretty much the same no matter where their seeds were planted.

Although I hear that some of the African Missionary Churches get a little more interesting when it comes to their prosteletyzing (or however the fuck you spell it), including threats of severe beatings if you don't accept Christ as your Personal Savior. I guess they want you to really understand what it means to turn the other cheek.

Troubleshooter 03-09-2005 03:35 PM

Part of the problem is that we have a fundie-lite running the show as well as fundies being gun rights advocates.

I'm torn, truly.

jaguar 03-09-2005 03:37 PM

Quote:

Although I hear that some of the African Missionary Churches get a little more interesting when it comes to their prosteletyzing (or however the fuck you spell it), including threats of severe beatings if you don't accept Christ as your Personal Savior. I guess they want you to really understand what it means to turn the other cheek.
I live in an area full of that kind of church, re-imported religion from Africa, like that other nasty export from Africa, AIDs, it's a destructive beast that seems very hard to root out.

You know, I somehow doubt in India and China they'd even consider posioning their education system with this shit, no wonder we're sinking economically. Why don't we just put in lead pipes and wait for the visigoths to turn up.

wolf 03-09-2005 03:38 PM

You're torn? Try this one on for size ...

I have far more in common with the Christian Right than I do with most pagans.

When you go to a festival smelling of Hoppes No. 9 rather than Patchouli, folks tend to kind of sidle away from you.

wolf 03-09-2005 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar
You know, I somehow doubt in India and China they'd even consider posioning their education system with this shit, no wonder we're sinking economically.

The unfortunately truth is that our educational system is spending more time arguing over this shit than they are educating ...

(I also find it interesting that you are seeing slipping standards, since you've been educated everywhere but The US.)

Happy Monkey 03-09-2005 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
"They also consider different theories on the origin of the universe," Filkin said. "In all aspects of the national curriculum, we encourage pupils to consider different ideas and beliefs, and how scientific controversies can arise from different ways of interpreting evidence. That is the core of scientific inquiry."

There is no scientific controversy over whether or not magic was involved in the creation of the universe. All of the controversy is in the religious community over how much science they need to accept, and how much of their mythology should be forced on others.

Troubleshooter 03-09-2005 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
You're torn? Try this one on for size ...

I have far more in common with the Christian Right than I do with most pagans.

When you go to a festival smelling of Hoppes No. 9 rather than Patchouli, folks tend to kind of sidle away from you.

So few people appreciate that special eau de fusil...

I feel your pain.

Try these. See if you can tell me where they come from.

The Price Some Reservists Have To Pay
Most of the reservists called up to serve in the Iraq war have paid a big price: a significant reduction of their wages as they transferred from civilian to military jobs, separation from their loved ones, and of course the risk of battle wounds or death. Regrettably, on their return home, those who are divorced fathers could face another grievous penalty: loss of their children, financial ruin, prosecution as "deadbeat dads," and even jail.

The Fatherphobia Of Family Courts
The threat to the right of children to be raised in mother-father homes comes not only from gay adoptions. It also comes from the fatherphobia of family courts that deprive children of their fathers.

Making Schools Accountable
Are taxpayer-subsidized infomercials and payoffs to friendly commentators the federal government's answer to education problems? The U.S. Education Department's secret million-dollar taxpayer-financed marketing campaign to sell the No Child Left Behind Act is only a symptom of what's wrong.

No Child Left Unmedicated
Big Brother is on the march. A plan to subject all children to mental health screening is underway, and the pharmaceuticals are gearing up for bigger sales of psychotropic drugs.

wolf 03-09-2005 03:53 PM

townhall.com was my first guess

(I googled after I established my guess, and I'm not at all surprised.)

Troubleshooter 03-09-2005 03:58 PM

I get them from Phyllis directly actually, but yeah, hard right.

She's been sending me her tirades for a while, but sometimes she dead on.

jaguar 03-09-2005 03:58 PM

Quote:

(I also find it interesting that you are seeing slipping standards, since you've been educated everywhere but The US.)
UK public system is fucking awful in most places. Not much better in AU, the standard needed to pass and what is considered an A has been lowered and lowered (not to mention an 40% pass level) to a point where it's no longer funny. All day you hear our 'leaders' here crapping on about the need to move to a 'knowledge based economy' (I assume tertiary is too unusual a word for TV) and gutting the edu system in the same breath. Do not get me started on Blair and his fucking '1 in 2 students must go to uni' bullshit.

Troubleshooter 03-09-2005 04:00 PM

Here in America we call it 'normalizing' a grading scale.

Call me normal and you better run...

jaguar 03-09-2005 04:25 PM

Well there's that and bell curve marking so you can't see the standard slip year to year.

OnyxCougar 03-10-2005 10:39 AM

I don't think Creationism OR Evolutionary origins should be taught in public schools.

Why can't they leave origins out of school altogether?

You can learn how a cell works without speculating on how it first appeared on the planet. You don't have to teach origins to convert one mole of an element to another. Don't need origins to teach math.

Leave origins out of the school completely, I say.

But if you insist on teaching evolutionary origins, then give it equal time with Creationism, AND the Hindi Origin theories, AND the Pagan theories, too.


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