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-   -   Signs of the times (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=2172)

BigV 04-24-2020 01:05 PM

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

But as a beginner, I urge you to start with the marmalade. The jelly is for experts only.

tw 04-24-2020 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 1051481)
But as a beginner, I urge you to start with the marmalade.

She likes marmalade better.

Trouble is social distancing gets in the way.

BigV 04-24-2020 09:56 PM

Bow-chicka-bow-whoa, what the fuck just happened?

Tell us more about your girlfriend, girlfriend!

Gravdigr 05-25-2020 09:19 PM

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Gravdigr 07-03-2020 11:57 PM

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BigV 07-04-2020 11:54 AM

I second that.

Gravdigr 09-08-2020 11:42 PM

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Might be a repeat:

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Gravdigr 09-16-2020 01:06 AM

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Urbane Guerrilla 09-22-2020 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 1051473)
Why would anyone put jelly in their navel?

Well, naval jelly *is* a corrosion remover... You can connect the dots. If you connect all those dots you get an underscore.

be-bop 09-23-2020 08:10 AM

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Can someone tell me what's going on in the States when you have groups like this wandering about, and how are they allowed to?

Ibby 09-23-2020 10:34 AM

US News and World Report ran an article yesterday making the case that these militias are not actually legal, but that broadly summarizes the rationale for allowing them to exist:

Quote:

Yet the groups go largely unchecked because law enforcement often does not enforce anti-militia laws due to a number of overlapping reasons, most based in ignorance or misunderstanding, analysts say. Law enforcement is sometimes simply unaware of state statutes that define and prohibit private militias and paramilitary activity.

That ignorance can be tied, McCord says, to a widely held "mythology" that the Second Amendment protects militia-like activity – an expansive understanding of the amendment's protections that has been promoted by cultural forces like the National Rifle Association, which in recent years has championed "stand your ground" laws in states across the U.S. and characterized guns as a protection against tyranny.

"I think the NRA and other Second Amendment absolutists have been remarkably successful over the last several decades at sort of just convincing people that the Second Amendment protects private militia activity, especially in open carry states," McCord says, referring to statutes that allow residents to openly carry firearms in public and in some cases permit the display of long guns like semi-automatic rifles.

The line between a citizen legally carrying a weapon in public and what constitutes illegal paramilitary action, therefore, often goes unrecognized by law enforcement.
(i'm not really sure I agree with their conclusion - that these are roundly illegal, that is - but i also don't really care a whole lot about arguing what some two-hundred-year-old document really means anyway so)

tw 09-23-2020 02:44 PM

Same attitudes brought about something called the Nazi party. Complete with justification because jews, et al were a threat to all. They were told that. So it must be true.

They need assault weapons to protect themselves using same reasoning. Adults who are still children. Nazi party targeted (recruited) same type people.

Griff 09-23-2020 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be-bop (Post 1058451)
Can someone tell me what's going on in the States when you have groups like this wandering about, and how are they allowed to?

We are out of our damn minds over here.

Urbane Guerrilla 09-24-2020 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be-bop (Post 1058451)
Can someone tell me what's going on in the States when you have groups like this wandering about, and how are they allowed to?

Because we are a genuinely democratic republic. The sole source of political capital in a democracy -- and hence power -- is the electorate.

People who misunderstand civilized thought protest, "But that is just power to kill!" And so it is. What they miss completely is that the crude power to kill translates very efficiently to the refined power of the ballot.

Which is at least more polite, and an exercise of faith in the society's tenets.

The guns are for when and if that faith is lost. An unarmed electorate is an electorate *without* a power anyone's "obliged to respect." You can google that phrase and see where it came from and why it's in quotes.

In a fit of theorizing, founding father Thomas Jefferson wrote that the tree of Liberty should be watered from time to time with the blood of tyrants and of patriots. He never had to live with that more than the once, 1775-1783.

xoxoxoBruce 09-24-2020 11:10 PM

They're just rehearsing for Halloween.

Urbane Guerrilla 09-24-2020 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 1058467)
Same attitudes brought about something called the Nazi party. Complete with justification because jews, et al were a threat to all. They were told that. So it must be true.

They need assault weapons to protect themselves using same reasoning. Adults who are still children. Nazi party targeted (recruited) same type people.

I see your chiefest function in a gunfight will be that of a sandbag. Presumably you are built rather like a sandbag, with shoes.

Griff 09-25-2020 08:35 AM

I'm not really sure death threats are appropriate here. It does illuminate the truth that some gun nuts are armed for intimidation not self-defense.

BigV 09-25-2020 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 1058538)
I'm not really sure death threats are appropriate here. It does illuminate the truth that some gun nuts are armed for intimidation not self-defense.

Yes, the emphasis on "obliged to respect" kinda seals it, doesn't it?

Our founding documents state

Quote:

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”
and nothing about a subset of those men who are armed, y'know, so others are obliged to respect them.

What widespread gun possession does is reduce the margin for error to the length and force of a trigger pull. Bad decisions are executed faster, more emphatically, more fatally. Being armed does not exempt one from making bad decisions, that's a human trait we all share.

The news is overflowing with reports of shootings that did not need to happen. Can the term unjustified be used? Yes, in the vernacular; no, in the strictest legal sense in many cases. And not just in the horrific stories about overreactions by police. Civilians are just as liable to make rash choices that have tragic consequences.

Let me ask you about Jake Gardner, you can google that name and see the news stories where it appears. He had the right to a fair trial but that's moot now that he's dead. How did a gun oblige others to respect his rights? Of course it didn't. All it did was accelerate the consequences of a bad decision.

Let me ask one more thing. When has using your power to kill ever obliged someone to respect your rights?

Diaphone Jim 09-26-2020 12:15 PM

A 'scope and a rainbow magazine on his assault rifle.
That guy is conflicted.

Ibby 09-26-2020 12:33 PM

ain't a rainbow

tw 09-26-2020 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim (Post 1058570)
That guy is conflicted.

Black lives matter more when one carries an assault rifle.

UG said so. It must be true.

BigV 09-26-2020 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibby (Post 1058571)

not talking about the sticker, but the shape of the ammunition magazine, like a "rainbow"

xoxoxoBruce 09-27-2020 12:19 AM

Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.

Griff 09-27-2020 07:24 AM

Kill 'em all, let God Clod sort 'em out, seems more fair.

Clodfobble 09-27-2020 09:28 AM

Looks like it was just a bureaucratic typo that put me in charge, like in "Brazil." Guess I'll just have to accept my fate as a supreme deity. You can't fight City Hall.

sexobon 09-27-2020 09:47 AM

Get Santa Claus to help you. He's already done a lot of the legwork: making lists, checking them twice, keeping track of who's been naughty or nice.

xoxoxoBruce 09-27-2020 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 1058601)
Get Santa Claus to help you. He's already done a lot of the legwork: making lists, checking them twice, keeping track of who's been naughty or nice.

Can't wait for the part where you rise up on a giant clam shell. :yum:

Gravdigr 09-28-2020 09:03 PM

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Urbane Guerrilla 09-30-2020 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 1058572)
Black lives matter more when one carries an assault rifle.

UG said so. It must be true.

Rights matter more when you have an assault rifle. You can stop authoritarians with assault rifles -- in batches of twenty if your marksmanship is good. Batches of thirty if you have those magazines to hand, like the guy with the painted magazine in his AR. You have those rights you can enforce -- regardless of anything militated against them. Thus, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Which is civilization. Anything other -- isn't.

I say so -- but you carefully refuse to learn it. What a low character you amount to. I am thoughtful, you are less so. I commit to liberty and human rights. You in particular have never done that. That's what's wrong with you.

Urbane Guerrilla 09-30-2020 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 1058538)
I'm not really sure death threats are present here. It does illuminate the truth that some gun nuts are armed for intimidation not self-defense.

Brought you round to accuracy. I recollect having gotten on your case before. As is evident between your lines, you value your fear more than you value your liberty. I don't.

You must intimidate tyrants. Or they'll feel free to kill you. I think you'd find that awkward.

Griff 10-01-2020 07:05 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 1058538)
I'm not really sure death threats are appropriate here. It does illuminate the truth that some gun nuts are armed for intimidation not self-defense.

Let's play a quick game of find the potential tyrant. I suspect you won't be there to help remove him if he pretends the election was invalid. Who is the potential tyrant in this picture?

Griff 10-01-2020 04:54 PM

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fargon 10-01-2020 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 1058837)
.

What Griff said.^^^

Urbane Guerrilla 10-06-2020 12:05 AM

If Griff said what it looks like Griff said...

NOT what Griff said.

Seriously, my child: YOU can call him anything you like. That doesn't MAKE him anything. Nor does it make ME believe anything. Not even if petulance is your latest hobby. You're afraid of the wrong people, you know.

How many genuine tyrants afford a Second Amendment? Think they could? And how does DJT view the Second?

tw 10-06-2020 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 1059121)
If Griff said what it looks like Griff said...
NOT what Griff said.

Who are you attacking this time?

BigV 10-06-2020 11:01 PM

UG

dude, you crack me up.

Griff 10-07-2020 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 1059148)
Who are you attacking this time?

Jesus maybe?

tw 10-07-2020 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 1059266)
Jesus maybe?

Who is the only person that Trump will not attack? Himself. Maybe.

Urbane Guerrilla 10-08-2020 11:50 PM

I see V, tw, and Griff would rather make their root-canal appointments than look up what Trump's view of the Second Amendment is.

Any 2A activist you know will tell you that the electorate armed is something a tyrant cannot survive nor endure.

Griff's stance is particularly untenable -- and were he genuinely concerned the country was sliding into tyranny or something, Griff would be out getting at least three firearms: a rifle (an AR type in 5.56mm NATO chambering probably the easiest to feed regardless), a pistol suiting his tastes, and a .22 rimfire (anything) to practice with surely and cheaply. Centerfire ammo runs into bucks unless you'd like to get into reloading, which in a genuinely concerning national situation of the above sort might be a darn good option to have around.

But I do not observe a sign of genuine, true concern from him. What I see reading between his lines is an intense emotional state -- like fear. As I said, of the wrong people.

xoxoxoBruce 10-08-2020 11:54 PM

Tell that to an Apache helicopter or A-10. :rolleyes:

Griff 10-09-2020 07:44 AM

Griff is well armed.

Trump supports the 2nd in hopes that Vanilla ISIS is Standing BY. We are beyond well-armed as a nation. We have enough guns and ammo to kill the shit out of each other while Putin enjoys the show. We'd be better off respecting the electoral process and learning how to interact with the government officials we elect instead of taking our guns to the State House every time we are asked to be humane.


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