Guns don't kill people ....
 

... But they accidently discharge, sending a bullet into a 15 year old girl's head and a 15 year old boy's neck.

http://www.wfrv.com/news/local/Two-s...114197884.html

Guns don't accidentally discharge. We cannot assign accidents to guns. Guns are innocent bystanders. PEOPLE accidentally discharge. :cool:

Maybe the backpack did it.

I have read a statistic that said nearly 28% of all drivers on the road are caused by accidents, so that would support your theory about people accidentally discharging.

Also when did gun shops start having "back to school" sales?

If the compass had been packing he could have saved a lot of heartache. :p:

Someone was missing a couple bucks from their portfolio...gotta make it up somehow. Volume! and Location Location Location!

"backpack to school".

If it was a packrat, I could understand, but a backpack?

:notworthy

:confused:

Hmmmm...how about this:

If the calculator had been packing heat, he could have saved a lot of heartache.

Possession of a firearm implies that you know how to use it. Not just how to fire it but also how to clean, transport and store it.

Unless you're going to really need it, you transport those things with security on and completly unloaded (no mag inside and no chambered bullet).

And possession of a weapon (either firearm or blade) implies that one day you may have to use it. And that you'll be responsible for that.

Clearly not the case in this affair.

But then it's not ready to pop that old lady blocking the crosswalk with her walker. I'm kidding, not pop her, just hurry her up a little.

No need to keep it loaded to do that... Just show it to the lady... She'll pass away from fear or cross the street at full speed...

Either way, she'll grow wings :)

And there are better ways to discharge in a 15 years old ;)

The road to hell is paved with implications, or something.

If I buy an outboard motor at the sporting goods store, I am implying I know how to clean, transport, and store it. I don't, but I can buy it anyway. I'll "learn as I go", mistakes and all. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Pick up a pack of cherry berry grape acai gum, too, while you're there. :rolleyes:

Isn't it why there are driving licences and weapons carrying permits?

While I don't want to enter a debate on firearm possession in the US, wouldn't it be safer (at least from the accidental discharge point of view) to ensure that the owner of a firearm can show a modicum of good sense?

then Sarah Palin couldn't get NEAR a weapon let alone own one.

And that's just downright unAmerican.

You must be a fascist socialist Nazi. Huh.

I would LOVE it if good sense entered into it. I'm not against guns per se (and I too don't want a debate) but the fact is Joe Schmoe With Nothing To Know can get his hands on just about anything, at the local big box store) but I don't think they should be as available as a new beach towel or a 24 pack of toilet paper. :)

When one implies, one makes an imp out of lies, or something.

Something tells me that the backpacker did not have a permit.

What Bri said.

What about making guns freely available and ammo damn near impossible to get your hands on. Would that satisfy all requirements or just lead to scary homemade bullets? I never hear people moaning about ammo ownership rights.

Chris Rock did a segment on it:

Bullets should cost 5 thousand dollars a piece! There'd be no more innocent bystanders. "Man, I would blow your fricking head off if I could afford it. You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway."

One of my favorites, here's the whole thing:

Chris Rock: Everybody is talking about gun control. Got to control the guns. Fuck, that, I like guns. If you've got a gun, you don't need to work out! Cause, I ain't working out. I ain't jogging. No, I think we need some bullet control. I think every bullet should cost five thousand dollars. Five thousand dollars for a bullet. Know why? Cos if a bullet cost five thousand dollars, there'd be no more innocent by-standers. That'd be it. Some guy'd be shot you'd be all 'Damn, he must've done something, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass!' And people'd think before they shot someone 'Man I will blow your fucking head off, if I could afford it. I'm gonna get me a second job, start saving up, and you a dead man. You'd better hope I don't get no bullets on lay-away!' And even if you get shot you wouldn't need to go to the emergency room. Whoever shot you'd take their bullet back. 'I believe you got my property?'

I should sue....

Eh, just shoot him. That'll learn him.

Then the rightful owner of that gun made a mistake.

I don't understand how country's views towards guns have been changed by a few incidents. When I was growing up, all boys carried a pocket knife to school. We never had anybody get stabbed. Guns - we all had them in our trucks because we liked to hunt before going to school. We didn't have school shootings

That was the world I grew up in as well Sarge. Kids grew up learning how to handle weapons and didn't seem to get in trouble outside of hunting accidents, which were used as "don't let this happen to you" reminders. Now we have rural people our age who just assume competent ownership coming up against an urban culture where only bad guys and police have guns. As we saw with Spex's kid, that culture sees things completely differently. Kids today, who don't belong to a shooting club or a hunting group with experienced older gun handlers have no idea what they are doing and threaten the rights of the competent.

Yes, I had a gun when I was a kid too, and Yes, I went hunting,
but population density is not what it was back then.
Few kids are going hunting before school now-a-days.
And yes, I know about the 2nd Amendment.

Why are attitudes towards guns changing ?
I don't know what constitutes "a few incidents".
In a way, it's sort of like old people driving with bad eyesight.
In small towns they can't do much damage, but on freeways it's a whole different risk.

Is this thread going to turn into a debate about guns in the US ?
Everyone has their own source, but Google is your friend.

I invite just this one Google search for:
"Child killed by gun"

Or, if you don't want to be concerned by suicides and violence, just
add one word:
"Child killed by gun accident"

This is about my kids' elementary school music teacher's family.

So very sad...

I hope you were able to comfort and reassure your son about all this.

Comparisons with "when I was a a kid" are invalid for so many reasons. It's a different world, of course attitudes are different.

Way back when in the dark ages, no-one washed their hands after defecating/wiping whatever. Now we know germs and hygiene. Knowledge changes.

Way back when we were kids, seatbelts were new-fangled and our parents moaned about how they never needed them and few kids died from being thrown from the back seat. How many cars were on the roads then? How fast did they go? Situations change

Way back when kids went hunting before school, guns weren't kept loaded because the fear of intruders wasn't so high, guns weren't so taboo (and we alll know what happens when you ban kids from things).... and kids didn't mess with papa's gun unless they fancied a good hiding.... Attitudes change.

It's such a diffeent world it isn't really appropriate to make comparisons. imo.

Is true. Guns are not killing people. Bullets are killing people.

If we start saying guns are killing people, we will say cars are killing them too?

Yes.

But people are need cars, yes? Also need guns. If only government has guns, people are helpless. Trust Uday for this.

Yes. Lots more than guns. :D

2* 9/11 every year from car accidents. Driving is dangerous very dangerous, but we accept the risk as necessary.

Guns are weapons. A tool for killing. To use a weapon; to own a weapon is dangerous. To not own a weapon is also dangerous.



We must weigh the risk of use and positions of such things to address the overall benefits of such actions.

And cooking is damn dangerous too. (I have been hurt more from cooking and walking than guns knifes and cars.)

But not killed yet, right?;)

Not yet

Right. And we make potential drivers take a driver's exam. Why don't gun owners have to take a gun exam?

A potential gun owner should be able to prove that
1) He/She can handle a gun.
2) He/She isn't manifestly crazy.

:thumb:

There is no requirement to have a driver's license to purchase a car. There is no background check required to purchase a car like there is a gun. An individual with felony DUI convictions can still buy a car, but he can't buy a gun. Strange when you consider he is far more likely to hurt/kill someone with a car rather than a gun.

No. Just to use one. It'd be easier to administrate if we check the buyers, don't you think?

Please we're trying to reason by analogy. That's always slippery. No two things are ever equal.

Actually you do not have to have a drivers license to operate a motor vehicle. A license is only needed if you drive on public streets/property. You can drive on your ranch/farm without a license. You can also drink and drive without restriction on private property.

What it all boils down to are people trying to restrict a fundemental right (to bear arms) and allowing something far more dangerous (motor vehicles) to be used with little restriction versus the potential for serious death/maiming.

I know. Analogy is slippery as I said. Still if you want to do more than drive in a circle, you need a license.


Restrict? So are you saying that if my desired guidelines are implemented that fewer people would be able to own guns?

Personally, I think that would be a good thing. If you can't handle a gun or you are verifiably crazy, then I think you should not be allowed to have a gun.

Mentall illness is already a disqualifier for gun ownership. It has been since 1968. Ya'll have to remember I'm from an area where the majority of folks have guns and hunt. folks who don't have a gun are considered strange.

Who will write tests? Who will grade tests?

Maybe I am reading the American constitution wrong. It says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I look at the dictionary, and infringed means
"1. (tr) to violate or break (a law, an agreement, etc.)
2. (intr; foll by on or upon) to encroach or trespass"

Is my understanding that this means the right to keep and bear arms can not be touched.

Here's a summary of the Missouri gun laws.

Here's a summary of the Alabama gun laws.

In both states, as long as you don't know the person and can say you didn't know they were a felon, crazy, or whatever, then you can sell them a gun.

What state are you in, Sarge?

You have to look at the Federal Law for these restrictions. These laws are binding in all states and territories. The Gun Control act of 1968 sets limitations as to mental competency and prior criminal offenses. This has also been expanded to cover misdemeanor offenses related to domestic violence. There is a mandatory background check from the US Government before you can purchase. Recently, vets diagnosed with PTSD through the VA have been prevented from purchasing firearms. This has caused problems because it often applies to vets who have never been hospitalized for mentall illness.

I'm from MS. State gun laws are lax because Federal law has taken the front on regulation and prosecution for violations. Remember Federal law supersedes state

From wikipeda

* Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors
* Fugitives from justice
* Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs
* Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution and currently containing a dangerous mental illness.
* Non-US citizens, unless permanently immigrating into the U.S. or in possession of a hunting license legally issued in the U.S.
* Illegal Aliens
* Those who have renounced U.S. citizenship
* Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces
* Minors defined as under the age of eighteen for long guns and handguns, with the exception of Vermont, eligible at age sixteen.
* Persons subject to a restraining order
* Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (an addition)
* Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition

Those who already own firearms would normally be required to relinquish them upon conviction.

Spexx is still the biggest supporter of the next genocide that we've got.

That he pursues this, er, distinction is clear. Why he would -- it's less obvious, though evidence may be gathered through Spexx's exhibition of every mental trait listed in "Raging Against Self Defense" over on the JPFO site. He rages inside, and uncontainably.

It is this rage that sparks genocides, for is not rage conducive to hatred also?

I do not suffer from it. Nor do I suffer it to pass unchallenged. Nor did Bruce, nor did Radar.

Guns don't always kill people... sometimes they just mess up their heads terribly.

Gabrielle Giffords resigned from House this morning

Washington Post
By Felicia Sonmez
01/25/2012

I wish her all the best. She was definitely one of the good ones.
I have no idea what her "recovery" holds in store, but again,
I wish her nothing but good things.

3 dead (so far) in Ohio school shooting

Go, go, go, NRA
... Grover Norquist's parents must be so proud

Would this have been prevented if there were restrictions on clip size?
Do we even know hoe the boy got the gun?

No, but it's fun watching knee jerkers blame guns for a murderer's actions.

Why are we blaming guns for this? When I grew up I carried a pocket knife at school and usually had a gun in the rack of my pick up. We often hunted just before or after school. We never had these problems until about 15 years ago.

I think this is a terrible situation.

I think the real issue that needs to be addressed is the marginalisation of some students. In I think just about every case of a school shooting, it's a victim of bullying who's lost the plot and pulled the trigger.

That speaks more to me of the fact that these kids are never taught any coping skills by their parents or the education system.

It's a huge problem.

Ali - I agree it is a terrible problem. I'm just so surprised things have changed. Can you believe we even had a smoking area at school?

We didn't have a smoking area, but there were 'smoking areas' lol