The Cellar - brainstorm: solve the palestinian israeli conflict

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brainstorm: solve the palestinian israeli conflict

in a long going discussion full of rubish semantics, wedge issues and blame games, you don't see a lot of practical thinking.

so what I am looking for is a practical solution for the conflict, that:

1) grants soverignty and freedom to the palestinians within a palestinian country.

2) allows israel to maintain boarder security and autonomy.

3) the starting conditions have to be based on current reality:

the palestinians are ruled by hamas.
no palestinian elections since 2006, skeptical possibility regarding 2012.
the palestinian economy is 1/3rd foreign aid dependent by the most optimistic analysis.
the israeli political atmosphere has lost nearly all faith in the prospect of peace in the near future.
the previously leading pro-peace party has changed its leadership and is now focused on internal matters (usually taking a socialist stance).
the nationalistic parties currently compromise the ruling coalition in israeli parlament.

and... go. solve the problem.

Sorry, but I see no solution.

Years ago, I came to the same conclusion as Classic has.

Both solutions, in fact.

Unless you want to take all children away from all religious dingbats (on both sides) so their young minds can grow up without all the stupid God-promised-this-to-US BS.

Which isn't going to happen.

So, as C-man has put it ...

From an American perspective, I think we have to get over the idea that we can solve this. It seems like the up-tic in right-wing religious nutitude© in Israel makes a negotiated peace even less likely especially with the Arab Spring giving way to a religious winter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 788303)

Unless you want to take all children away from all religious dingbats (on both sides) so their young minds can grow up without all the stupid God-promised-this-to-US BS.

Either that, or 50 years of arranged marriages only
... Jewish men wed only Palestinian women
... Palestinian men wed only Jewish women

Even bigoted grandparents cannot hate their grand kids.

Well, Sri Lanka solved their terrorism problem in VERY short order:

Quote:

The Tigers’ collapse began in January, 2009, when they lost the town of Kilinochchi, their de-facto capital. By May, their remaining fighters retreated into the jungle near the coastal town of Mullaittivu, taking along more than three hundred thousand Tamil civilians who were trapped with them. The Sri Lankan Army designated a series of “no-fire zones” and told civilians to assemble there. It then shelled those zones repeatedly, while issuing denials that it was doing so and forbidding journalists access to the area.

A) The world looks the other way (who cares about sri lanka anyway);

B) Horrible bloodbath where 300,000 human shields are collateral damage for a small fraction of fighters;

C) Problem completely solved.

So completely solved, that only two years later Sri Lanka can safely release 1800 Tiger rebels. Without even a single innocent Sri Lankan soldier to exchange for them. Because who's going to be a human shield for them now?

Quote:

Sri Lanka's government on Friday released nearly 1,800 former Tamil Tiger rebels who had been held since the island nation's civil war ended more than two years ago. The former combatants — among about 11,000 Tamil Tigers who surrendered at the end of the war in May 2009 — were held in military-run rehabilitation centres, where they underwent vocational training. The military says about 1,000 remain in centres.

Sri Lanka has come under pressure from rights groups and other countries to either charge the detainees or release them.

Under pressure from rights groups! Ha! Ha! And now the rights groups think they had an impact! Ha! Ha!

Of course this isn't my proposed solution. It's merely how the world has historically accomplished these things... when no-one is watching.

Quote:

Hemmed in by the sea, a lagoon, and a hundred thousand government soldiers, the Tigers were all but helpless. On May 16th, the Army commander, General Sarath Fonseka, declared victory. Two days later, the Army announced that the Tiger leader, Velupillai Prabhakaran, had been killed. After the carnage, President Mahinda Rajapaksa’s government adopted a posture of triumphalism at home and resentment of the outrage it caused abroad. The important thing, Sri Lanka’s High Commissioner in London said, was that Sri Lanka had ended terrorism, making it the first country in the modern age to have done so.

I thought I saw something in Classic's pic
... So did someone else !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 788345)

Well, Sri Lanka solved their terrorism problem in VERY short order:
<snip>

But that was the origin of this problem back in the 30's... same strategy, just different people.

- Build a strong defense around Israel.

- Prohibit Palestinians from entering Israel.

- Cut aid to Palestine.

- Let the Arabs take care of the Palestinians.

Hasn't Israel made several proposals that offered just this?

And haven't the Palestinians rejected each and every one, preferring their current goal of killing every Jew in the world, beginning with their rightful "homeland" which they have NEVER owned?

I see no solutions other than a war. Sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet (Post 788349)

- Build a strong defense around Israel.

israel has a wall along its boarder with gaza. there are checkpoints along it its mostly being affective regarding terrorists entering the country through it. but in receant years, the larger majority of attacks changed from sucide bombers to missiles, where the wall isn't really helpful.

not to mention both gaza and israel have a common boarder with egypt, and israel is in no economical position to give up that trade relation.

it might be important to mention that israel didn't make its boarder with gaza the main channel to send the palestinian foreign aid out of goodwill. on the international arena this is the only escuse that grants israel the capacity to check through the deliveries for bombs etc. israel stops it and the trade goes back egyption boarder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 788330)

Either that, or 50 years of arranged marriages only
... Jewish men wed only Palestinian women
... Palestinian men wed only Jewish women

Even bigoted grandparents cannot hate their grand kids.

Love this idea - if only it was feasible. Breed them into cohabitation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 788346)

I thought I saw something in Classic's pic
... So did someone else !

FTW. Well done. Was wondering if anyone else would see that. :thumbsup:

Honestly? I wish Israel would be the bigger man and just abandon the whole area. Who wants a chunk of desert anyway? There are currently more Jews in New York than there are in Israel. So finish the job, have a mass emigration party and let the nutbags have all that ugly "holy" dirt, just like we let the Native Americans have Oklahoma.

Give Palestine back to the Palestinians.