The Cellar - I don't have a dog in this fight, but...

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- - I don't have a dog in this fight, but... (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=26073)

classicman

10-12-2011 10:55 PM

Huntsman is going to be a very valuable asset within an administration, but he has ZERO charisma. He just cannot get any traction.

TheMercenary

10-14-2011 06:50 AM

Unfortunately, Huntsman will not be on the final ticket. I think he would have been a reasonable choice.

Lamplighter

10-14-2011 09:56 AM

International Business Times
September 28, 2011 8:19 AM EDT
By Maggie Astor

Herman Cain for President: What Are His Positions?

Quote:

Taxes:
Cain calls his tax proposals the "999 plan,"
because it would create three flat taxes at a rate of 9 percent.

The first would be a 9 percent business tax,
which would apply to a business's gross income minus investments,
dividends paid to shareholders and purchases from other businesses.

The second would be a 9 percent individual tax on gross income minus charitable contributions.

The third would be a 9 percent national sales tax,
which would pave the way to eventually transition entirely to the "fair tax,"
or a tax on spending rather than income.
This would mean a flat tax rate for everyone, regardless of income,
and it would eliminate payroll taxes and taxes on capital gains.

Entitlement programs:

Entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid should be eliminated
so that "states, cities, churches, charities and businesses" can
take over the task of helping the elderly, poor and disabled.
Federal programs are inherently problematic because they create a sense of entitlement
to government support and give people an incentive to be dependent.
Welfare takes away individuals' freedom and independence,
but eliminating entitlement programs would empower people.
<snip>

And besides all that: Even the Repubicans tax analyst doesn't like Cain's 999 plan

Miami Herald
By Marc Caputo,  Posted: Oct 14, 2011 09:00 AM

Business groups blast Cain's 9-9-9 plan as job killer

Quote:

Called a job killer at worst or a detail-free slogan at best,
Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan is getting tepid-to-awful reviews
from some of the nation's most-influential business groups.

The National Retail Federation strongly opposes the Republican presidential candidate's plan
because it would institute a first-ever national sales tax of 9 percent that,
the federation says, will dampen consumer spending.

"This will hurt demand and slow the economic recovery," the federation's tax policy expert,
Rachelle Bernstein, said. "You definitely do not want to do this."
<snip>

Lamplighter

10-14-2011 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 763292)

Huntsman is going to be a very valuable asset within an administration,
but he has ZERO charisma. He just cannot get any traction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 763635)

Unfortunately, Huntsman will not be on the final ticket.
I think he would have been a reasonable choice.

I too am more favorably impressed by Huntsman than by any of the other R's.

Geeeezzzz --- a :rainbo: :rainbo: :rainbo: of Dwellars !

But I've been scanning the news looking for what Huntsman is saying or doing in his campaign.
Most articles that even mention him deal with the R-candidates' debate in Nevada, which he skipped.

I found one article that talked about Huntsman, Perry, and Romney
being more (statistically) likely to achieve the presidency because they are former governors...
that way they no longer have to explain current problems in their state

Has anyone seen substantive articles about Huntsman or his campaign ?

.

classicman

10-14-2011 12:08 PM

Aside from seeing him speak and his past, he has been completely ignored by the media - all of it.

Lamplighter

10-14-2011 07:09 PM

CNN is reporting today his campaign is going broke.

Quote:

(CNN) - Jon Huntsman's presidential campaign is verging on broke
after burning through more than $4 million since the former Utah governor
entered the race for the Republican nomination in June.

The Huntsman campaign, which re-trenched last month by laying off staff
and moving its national quarters to the must-win primary state of New Hampshire,
finished the third fund-raising quarter in September with just
$327,000 in the bank and $890,000 in debt.

And besides all that:
David Koch is steping in to run for President, with Cain as his VP.
You guess the name of their candidacy.

Groan :yelsick: Meh, I heard it on the radio.

Griff

10-14-2011 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 763784)

Aside from seeing him speak and his past, he has been completely ignored by the media - all of it.

Could it be that he isn't radical enough for the right wing media and is too electable for the left wing media?.. I think he'd beat Obama head to head but the GOP voters are too far around the bend to pick a winner.

Lamplighter

10-14-2011 08:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Now a another bit about Perry...
NY Times
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
Published: October 14, 2011

Perry Presents a Jobs and Energy Proposal With an Oil and Gas Industry Sound

Quote:

WEST MIFFLIN, Pa. —
Gov. Rick Perry of Texas released a long-promised jobs and energy proposal
Friday that resembles a wish list for the oil and gas industry, ...<snip>

His energy plan has four parts:
-use executive decrees to allow new or additional drilling in Alaska,
....the Gulf of Mexico, and federal lands in the West;
-roll back or weaken environmental regulations;
-dismantle the E.P.A. and replace it with a “scaled-down agency”;
- and reshape subsidies and tax credits for different parts of the energy industry,
in what appears would be a move away from renewable energy.
<snip>

While he promoted the potential of natural gas in the giant rock formation
known as the Marcellus Shaleto create a quarter-million new jobs,
some experts noted that federal researchers recently cut estimates
of undiscovered and technically recoverable gas in the shale formation
by almost 80 percent — calling into question the reliability of any long-range
predictions about the amount of energy available for extraction there.
<snip>
But critics said the plan — much of which tracks a recent
proposal by an oil industry trade group — would make little headway toward either goal,
and they feared that it would imperil drinking water supplies and hurt the environment.

And besides all that:
[Perry] made questionable assertions, including one —
that the E.P.A. had never found a case of unsafe hydraulic fracturing of natural gas —
that was plainly false

Environmental Working Group
August 3, 2011

Quote:

EPA Traced Pollution of Underground Water Supply to Hydraulic Fracturing
The EPA concluded in a 1987 report to Congress that the process contaminated
Parsons' water well with fracturing fluid.

Lamplighter

10-15-2011 10:31 AM

BostonGlobe.com
By Charles Babington
Associated Press / October 15, 2011

Romney's rise challenges tea party's clout in GOP

Quote:

WASHINGTON
Mitt Romney's early success in the Republican presidential race
is challenging the tea party's clout.
Will it continue to pull the GOP sharply right? Will it slowly fade?
Or merge with mainstream Republican elements
in a nod to pragmatism, something it's hardly known for?

On the surface, Romney's strength seems at odds with the tea party's
fiery success in ousting Republicans seen as compromisers,
and in making the House GOP caucus more ideological,
even when its leaders plead for flexibility.

Romney defends the government's 2008 bank bailouts,
plus the mandated health insurance he initiated as Massachusetts governor.
He says he can work with "good Democrats."
Although he later changed, Romney once supported abortion rights,
gun control and gay rights.

These positions run counter to the beliefs and goals of many
tea party activists scattered throughout the country.
Yet Romney is faring better in polls, fundraising and debates
than are contenders with stronger tea party credentials,
including Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum and Rick Perry.
<snip>

And besides all that:
The worst thing you can find about Romney is that when traveling
he puts his dog on the top of the car.
The nest worst thing is that he is like a stone --- in stone soup.

Lamplighter

10-16-2011 11:57 AM

Herman Cain is making the news circuits and being asked about his campaign finances and support.
Cain has not yet mentioned the Koch brothers or Americans for Prosperity.
Here's some background...
Washington Post
By Associated Press, Sunday, October*16, 6:54*AM

Herman Cain’s deep ties to Koch brothers key to campaign

Quote:

IOWA CITY, Iowa — Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain has cast himself as the outsider,
the pizza magnate with real-world experience who will bring fresh ideas to the nation’s capital.
But Cain’s economic ideas, support and organization have close ties to two billionaire brothers
who bankroll right-leaning causes through their group Americans for Prosperity.

Cain’s campaign manager and a number of aides have worked for Americans for Prosperity,
or AFP, the advocacy group founded with support from billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch,
which lobbies for lower taxes and less government regulation and spending.
Cain credits a businessman who served on an AFP advisory board with helping devise his “9-9-9” plan
to rewrite the nation’s tax code
And his years of speaking at AFP events have given the businessman and radio host a network of loyal grassroots fans

and besides all that:
When asked on Meet The Press for a difference between himself and Romney, Cain responded:
"... He's a Wall Street candidate, I'm more of a Main Street candidate."

Cain was on the Board of Directors from 1992,
and was Chairman of the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank from 1995 to 1996.
He later opposed a call for an audit of the Fed, which he now denies
.

classicman

10-16-2011 12:28 PM

Cain is a painful distraction. I don't see him as a viable candidate at all.
He sure seems to be a media created sensation all because of a catch-phrase.
I wonder why they are giving him so much attention.

Lamplighter

10-16-2011 03:48 PM

Media coverage so far is superficial, only the 999 catch phase for taxes,
but nothing about the implications or Cain's longer visions.
Just the sort of things that get votes.

ZenGum

10-16-2011 06:57 PM

I've seen a little about Huntsman now. Best R I've seen yet in the current smorgasbord. Apart from being named after a spider, his main problem is the catch-22 of current republican party machinations, to wit:

Anyone centrist enough to be a plausible candidate in the general election is not extreme enough to get endorsed by the party.

Griff

10-16-2011 07:56 PM

There's an op ed in the NY Times calling his candidacy essentially over, just the wrong time for sensible...

classicman

10-16-2011 10:04 PM

That really suxors. I think he'd be a great VP choice.
To me, it looks like Romney will get the nod.
Romney/Huntsman would be interesting, to say the least.

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