Wow! Very well said, A.

Tilting at windmills, etc.

I agree in a general sense with Ali here. Both points... I like you , but c'mon... you're going out of your way looking for offense when clearly none was intended. Makes you sound bitchy.

This is my point - I find the notion that it's unreasonable to expect people to make an effort to properly gender me to be flat out nasty. I fundamentally disagree with your worldview on gender. And because I'm part of the trans* community, that disagreement takes on a little more weight, because when you treat gender that way, it fundamentally erases me and my identity, and leaves the door open for a lot of really bad things. I don't care if you think i'm bitchy or taking it too far - I'm going to make an effort to educate the cellar as to WHY the things we say can be taken as offensive, HOW our language makes it extremely easy to erase the trans* community, etc. It doesn't mean i'm personally bent out of shape about it. It means I think it's a fundamental human and civil rights issue to talk about these things, and to stand up against language I think is damaging.

Ibram, the difficulty is not in calling someone a she if they want to be called a she, it's with remembering the changes from year to year. I humbly suggest you make a new user name if you want people to think of you as someone different than you used to be. Heck, sometimes it's a good idea to do that just to separate yourself from your younger self.

So everyone should make an attempt to understand you and where you're coming from (I'm afraid to use the 'wrong' words) but you have no problem judging and chastising someone like JBK...why?

Trantrums!

Ibs, you know who doesn't give two shits about "educating" people about gender issues? Post-ops.

I've been close friends with one, friends with two others and acquaintances with two more. Once they're women, they're women and all the gender politics is no longer interesting. It's dropped, permanently.

Oh and. Please consider never again using the word "worldview". Just say "view", unless you want to be the most blowhardy blowhard ever.

Ib, don't take these responses personally, in fact, just say your piece and then leave their responses alone.

You do what you need to do.

my "attacks" on JBK were all exhortations to make damn sense. I'm not telling him to leave or go home or shut up or anything else, and i'm not "judging" anything except for the incomprehensibility of his content. JBK makes no effort to and has no interest in helping anyone understand where he's "coming from" at any given point, except to say that he doesn't intend to make sense. That's a valid way to communicate, but it's equally valid to criticize it as opaque and nonsensical. Just like, you can use whatever damn pronouns you want, for me, but it's perfectly legitimate for me to correct you if I would prefer female ones, and its perfectly legitimate to point out when I feel like people are talking offensively. I don't care if you think it's overly sensitive of me.

That is sometimes the case, yes. So? Not all trans* people intend to have surgery, and not everyone in the trans* community is an activist. I am. The same way I speak out on some gay issues, or some economic issues, or some international issues, that i consider it important for people to BE active about, I speak out on trans* issues, even if not every member of the community thinks it's an issue worth pursuing, or even agree that its an issue at all. I think its sad that NOT everyone in the community is an activist, but I'm going to continue to follow my own passion in the issue.

Take the pill of chill dude...I barely said anything.

But I will now, and I don't care if you think it's overly meanie weanie of me: you get offended over shit even as people are trying to understand what you are saying. You'll be happy to know I read about every other word in this previous post, because WTF.

JBK has admitted to schizophrenia. You've admitted to being transgendered or whatever word I'm allowed to use. People bend over backwards to understand your position. But you got all pissy with JBK for no reason...why, because you don't 'get' schizophrenia? Well, I don't 'get' whatever it is you're hoping to accomplish, but I've kept my mouth shut. JBK isn't the issue. You are. You're on a fast track to crazy town, is what you are.

So put your big girl panties on, take a deeeeeep breath, and lay off the booze for a while.

kthx

So we have male, female, and transgendered? What about me???

:eyebrow:
:rolleyes:

concise enough for you?

Pandabare?

I'm sorry Ibram. I meant no offense. I'll leave this thread alone now.

No, don't Sheldon.
You have as much right to be in this thread as Ibram.

You make me laugh.