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You say that like it is possible to shame Putin on the world stage - I don't think that's how it would have gone down even if they had managed to get absolute and incontrovertible proof that Assad retained stockpiles of Sarin. |
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But those agruements cannot be used. Trump destroyed his own powerful position. Furthermore, had Trump understood strategic military concepts, then he would have done what Clinton so successfully did in Iraq. If using military action, Trump should have attacked all Sarin facilities and warehouses. Since those are in bases even protected by Russian presence. Russians could not deny a massive Sarin cleanup and Sarin victims - of a chemical that Russia said did not exist. Trump had two powerful options. He destroyed both by wasting $100 million on useless and irrelevant targets. Even that option is now gone - cannot be used effectively again. Since the Russians now have every right to (and will) install best protection from Cruise missiles. And will not monitor (and maybe harass) American warships. They now have the right to do so - because Trump screwed up. |
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Never assume the military option is an only option or is a good one. During the Cuban missile crisis, we know those who thought that way almost resulted in none of us existing today. Best solution of even this tiny event is shrewd diplomacy. Quiet talk with a big stick. A big stick that is only used when talk is not yet effective. Plenty of options existed - to even implement a second red line over the first one. Even that option no longer exists. In these chess moves, Putin clearly won only because Trump used a worst possible strategy. |
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Hindsight is 20/20... except for tw. :smack:
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We know this. Military is a last option; used when all other options are no longer available or have failed. Military must be implemented at real targets. Not irrelevant airplanes. Responsible use of military power would have taken out all known and suspected Sarin sites. And targeted top people responsible for its use. A responsible military response attacked Syria's presidential palace and Asad. If that is unacceptable, then a military response is unacceptable. Idiots spent massively ($100million) to destroy some mostly old and easily replaced airplanes. A massive military response did virtually nothing useful. And destroyed most every other viable option. When Reagan attacked Libya, did he only destroy some airplanes that might have threatened an aircraft carrier? Of course not. That would be counter-productive and only made things worse. Reagan went right after everything including the reason for confrontation - including Gaddafi and his tents. Reagan attacked everything relevant to the problem. Only fools want big bombs to solve anything. All saw that bogus reasoning even in Vietnam. What happened? Only bad things. Actual problem was completely ignored. Problem was not targeted by a massive military response. An attack on Syria did little useful. And destroyed everything accomplished by Obama's red line. Only reason to believe that military attack did something useful: emotions. Knowledge says otherwise. No person cites a single fact that says a $100 million attack solved anything. That makes the stupidity of that attack obvious. What was accomplished. Even that airbase was operational in less than 24 hours. Nothing was accomplished. Even Sarin was untouched and ready for deployment. |
Obama was losing face after Assad thumbed his nose at him. Obama wanted to use military force; but, didn't have the intestinal fortitude to do it alone. He was afraid of Putin. Putin capitalized in Obama's weakness by offering Obama a political out. Obama would get to remove most of the CW so ISIS couldn't get trhem (also in Putin's interest) and in return Obama would look the other way when the evidence indicated that Assad had kept some secured for himself. The deal maker was that Assad wouldn't use them on Obama's watch.
Trump demonstrated that he's not going to be Putin's lackey like Obama was, by using the military option. All he needs to do for now is show them that he's willing and able to reach out and touch someone if CW are used again. The Russians can't stop it from happening. They can only retaliate which would be of no use to a defeated Assad. The US can do this in increments to have the least intervention effect on the civil war and give Russia the least provocation to retaliate. It's called strategy; but, has nothing in common with what armchair quarterbacks, who liken international relations to playing a game, call strategy. :rolleyes: sexobon: ∞ and beyond, tw: -2 |
It has our allies nodding, China reevaluating, and North Korea shaking.
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We will be greeted as liberators. /not likely
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If this were part of a game designed to extricate us from the bottomless pit of international conflict we might have something here but at this point the machine runs itself, a couple publicly reluctant Presidents won't stop it. |
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Military action requires a 'smoking gun'. If attacks were justified - if a smoking gun existed - then America attacked the presidential palace and Asad. And attacked all Sarin facilities. If people responsible for Sarin are not targeted (are not the problem), then a smoking gun does not exist. No smoking gun means military action was not yet justified. No smoking gun is why irrelevant targets were attacked with very expensive weapons. Scary are so many enthralled by use of big guns; therefore do not see severe consequences. We are now jumping into another hole of quicksand. Problem was 100% on countries in that region. Why did Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Gulf States, Jordan, Egypt and Israel do nothing - not even complain? Why did America not go after them for being irresponsible and remaining silent? They - not America - are responsible for their region. Many Americans refuse to learn lessons from VietNam, 200 dead Marines in Lebanon, and Mission Accomplished. Too many Americans only understand 'big dic' thinking. So many never understand: a 'smoking gun' must first exist. |
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People have been convicted of violent crimes, including murder, even when no weapon has been recovered. No smoking gun is required when the implications of circumstantial evidence are beyond a reasonable doubt. This is how the real world works. Anyone who would say a smoking gun is required before taking military action is not grounded in reality.
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Israel did not waste time or money on trucks or planes delivering construction supplies. They did not waste money attacking corn fields to prove to Asad that they could. Israel and Syria were still at war. Israel's attack was just one of many - and neither difficult nor challenging. Israel asked a mental midget president (George Jr) to do it. But Cheney's puppet had subverted the US military on a useless war in Iraq, then recreated that war, while turning support from Iran against us, while all but surrendering to the Taliban, and then going back to fight that war all over again. America no long had necessary strength nor desire to be involved. Meanwhile, George Jr, et al had also created what was beginning to look like another Great Depression. In part because almost $3 trillion had been wasted only on Iraq - with zero success. Part of that Syria problem - and this was noted in the Cellar repeatedly in the early 2000s - is traceable to Americans who so foolishly advocated and loved a $3 trillion war. And the deaths of 5000 American servicemen because a braggart was a threat to no one. America was already deeply involved with wars that would not exist had responsible (educated) leaders existed in Washington. Israel took care of their problem when fatigue and a shortage of military capacity keep Americans from doing another stupid attack. Fatigue to keep Americans from doing something stupid? Israeli did not act stupid - as America has with Sarin. Israelis took out a containment building; not irrelevant targets. Problem and the people who created a Sarin problem remain untouched and unthreatened. Infighting in The Donald's administration (resulting in a completely NSA shakeup) may also explain that stupid military decision. Israelis did not stupidly attack trucks and planes. When using military force, the actual problem must be completely taken out. America did nothing to address a Sarin problem. Sarin is no longer Israel, Saudi Arabia, Gulf States, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq, or Lebanon's problem. It is now 100% America's problem. We simply jumped into more Middle East quicksand. Thanks to another president who is all about himself - not about America. Reminds me of Nixon who massacred tens of thousands of Americans in a war he knew we would never win - to protect his legacy. Nixon did not want to be the first American president to lose a war. Soldiers apparently were expendable to Nixon, George Jr, and now Trump. |
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