Torn Between Two Friends
 

Friendships are relationships, right? Well, whatever. I don't know where else to post this, so here is my problem:

I joined an online support group for those who have been involved with SO's who turn out to be ax murderers about a year ago. I felt an instant affinity for "A" whose experience seemed much like my own. We became good cyber pals and have e-mailed each other often over the past 10 months or so. I also became friends with "B" who was co-manager of the board. B has also e-mailed me and we have spoken on the phone, as well. Her advise has been invaluable.

Recently A and B have been going through difficult times in their personal lives and have had a falling out (A and B used to be good friends, as well). A e-mailed me and told me some things B had supposedly done behind my back and swore me to secrecy. I was very distressed both at her information and at being sworn to secrecy. Her story made sense in some ways, but not others. I was left with this bombshell of B's betrayal sitting in my lap and yet wasn't supposed to talk to B about it.

Well, this did not sit at all well with me and after thinking it over for a couple of days, I finally confronted B with A's information. B was shocked and gave a very plausible response to the things A had told me about. She asked me to send an e-mail to A on her behalf.

I sat down to write the e-mail and thought about it. My direct experience with these two has been nothing but kind treatment from them both, although I don't appreciate A sharing wierd gossip with me (whether true or not) and then asking me to keep it secret. This feels like high school stuff to me, but a huge board war has ensued over it. I just sent an e-mail addressed to both A and B and told them that as far as I was concerned, they were each my friend and neither had wronged me directly and I could only go by my direct experience of them both.

Did I do the right thing? Please share your wisdom with me on this one, oh Cellar Dwellars!

It's always difficult being the one stuck in the middle. I think you've done the right thing by stating your feelings openly. The rest is up to them to sort out. Perhaps they'll even take a leaf out of your book and decide to be honest with each other about how they feel.

I'd say you did what you could with it.

If you lay down with borderlines you're likely to wake up with a knife in your back.

Jealousy resulting from their falling out requires a body count. You're the designated body. Neither of them wants the other to end up with you as a friend and supporter. If they also emotionally cripple you in the fray, they both win.

Geez, and I bet you thought that group would be rather drama free, eh? Best thing would have been to stay out of it, but you handled it well I guess.

I would have preferred to stay out of it, Jeb, but it was a tad hard with A sending me e-mails and B calling me up on the phone when I just refused to post at all on the board for 3 days running. And, no, I can't say that I didn't expect any drama. When you've got 100 people trying to make sense out of having had a nice loving relationship with a psychopath, there's bound to be a dramatic eruption here and there. Its inevitable.

And to Wolf: Actually when I lay down between two borderlines, I expected to be rousted up in the morning by la migra! ;)

I gravitate towards certain men for very specific, sick, twisted reasons. While most of them have 'issues', none of them have been outright sociopaths (thank goddess!) but I will introduce the thought here that women who DO tend to end up the the Ted Bundy's of the world might do it out of a deep need and may not be the healthiest people themselves. Therefore, I WOULD expect a lot of drama from this board and these people. Maybe, secretly, they adore drama. Just sayin'.

Well, Brianna, a couple of thoughts. I use the term "ax murderer" humorously, needless to say. Most of the people probably have narcissitic personality disorder (NPD). There are women with NPD, also; so the board is made up of men and women both trying to come grips with the discovery that someone who had been among their nearest and dearest suffers from this profound personality disorder.

Ted Bundy (who was a psychopath, BTW), did not show up on the first meeting with a scrap book filled with pic's of his victims and what he had done to them. He came across as a personable, charming man. Folks with NPD ooze charm from every pore - they SEEM so sincere! It is only with the passing of time that they slowly begin to reveal their true natures as cold blooded reptiles who wouldn't know a human emotion if you wonked them upside the head with one. They are masters of faking it, though.

Survivers of encounters with these types end up with profound trust issues, needless to say. I think that is THE number 1 reason for the episodes of high drama on support boards for survivers.

I'm not accusing YOU of anything or any certain behavior--if it came across that way, I surely didn't mean it that way. I just meant that on the WHOLE, people seem to gravitate towards certain types and just watch out for the company you are in. I have known a few socio-psycho-paths, mainly professionally. There is something about them that makes me put up alllll my walls of defense; perhaps it's the part of them being sooooooo charming, etc., perhaps it's training and experience, but whenever anyone is too nice to me, etc. I start wondering what is in it for them that they act this way? Like, they will assume a huge familiarity with you right off the bat, be chummy before it's warrented, etc. and they give off a weird, bad vibe. I know who they are and I know they are sharp. I don't blame anyone for falling into their trap, I just think PERHAPS a certain personality type does fall for it more than others.

Not a problem, Bri! I didn't think you were. You are fortunate in having your professional experience with the breed, and, also, you probably did not have a care giver who commonly invaded your boundaries. Some on the board feel that ANYONE could become a victim of these predators, and in one sense, they may be correct. On the other hand, I see in myself and in many others there who have shared their life stories, the difficulty with boundaries which seems to be a problem for many.

The Momster had no idea what a healthy boundary was and invaded mine all the time. It was only after I became an adult and went out into the world that I learned that not everybody treated each other that way.

Looking back, my biggest mistake was allowing too much, too soon, too fast - the typical mode of operation for an NPD. People (I use the term advisedly) with NPD have no healthy boundaries and will march across yours like the German tanks running over the Polish Calvery in WWII. NPD'ers also have no true sense of self. They just mirror back the person they happen to be with at the time. The NPD'er comes across as your "soul mate." They mirror your likes and dislikes perfectly, acting as if these feelings are a true part of them.

So yes, I think my family of origin issues set me up to be prey for the ax murderer. I remember that when I first met him, I introduced him to a girl friend of mine who hated him from the instant she met him. She warned me against him. Shudda listened to my friend. Oh, well.

well, honey, hind-sight is fifty-fifty. Let it go out into the ether and forget about this jerkoff. That's what I'm doing with mine. :D

One of these cost me a good 5 years. Didn't know there was a name for them other than "bitch".

[on topic]
I think you did the best you could with what you got, Marichiko. [/on topic]

The only reason to go to that board in the first place is to relive, rehash and revel in comparing specifics. Rate-My-Pic for victims.
Suck it up and get on with your life. :eyebrow:

Heh, Bruce! Spoken like a guy as well as a "civilian." You haven't been there, thank God! You don't wanna go there! Thanks for the "straighten up and fly right" words of wisdom, tho! :rolleyes:

PS Oh, and we talks lots about stupid stuff - kinda like the cellar. Its not all about whining over how we were wronged back when. Mostly its about like what you said, just getting on with our lives.

Mari - I think you did exactly the right thing by basically letting them both know that you will not be involved in any behind the back crap.
I have had to deal with that for years at my workplace. Employee A has a beef with employee B (yet they are completely civil to each other on the surface) and since I am neutral ground, I get the emails from both of them bashing each other. I'm like the net on a ping pong table.
You should stick to your guns and refuse to talk about anything that can't be discussed openly between all parties.

Brianna, certainly some people like drama but I suspect almost everybody in that group would love to avoid it after their expecience. You're lucky those types send up red flags in your case; avoiding the types Mari describes isn't something they teach you in school. I think she hit the nail with trust issues. I lost a friend due largely (or so I presume) to trust issues after she dealt with a socio and have seen it with another. You can be as open as reasonably possible but if a person has trust issues it can lead to a lot of problems.

Mari,
With friends like A, who needs enemas?
What she did sucked. You didn't ask for that info and you are under no obligation to keep it confidential.

I'd just avoid her.

Sorry for the cliff notes version of a real post a la the above folks. I have these micro windows between

other duties which call me away.

Just one Q for you. Have you considered what the payoff (to you) is for getting yourself invloved w/ axe murderers and boundary crashers? Or could it be run of the mill familiarity?

Sometimes we aren't even remotely interested in healthy people. a) they are unfamiliar to us and b) they are boring.

How bout sending an email to both saying all future correspondence concerning the "other one" from them to you will immediately be fowarded to the "other one" as well? That way they'll both know that their comments about the "other" will go directly to the "other" person as well. The emails will cease immediately - guaranteed! Its hard to play without a net. Conversely, playing Switzerland will not work. It will only prolong the childish war of words.

Foot to the third power, As to my two internet pals, it was kind of hard to tell they were boundary crashers at first. They are both funny, intelligent women - one is a lawyer and the other has her own physical therapy practice (and yes, I know these things are for reals). When I got placed in the middle, I was quite surprised and I backed away at once.

As for the ax murderer, he was a combination of psycho stealth, childhood baggage and the fact that I was physically ill when I met him. I do confess to a certain fascination for "bad boys," but the ax murderer was too bad even for me!

mari-- you've no freaking values. You don't know who is for real and who is not.

liberals love to parade you out. you are so easily taken in.

PS-I myself am a scum sucking liberal. i am also appropriately ashamed. Of myself.

LOL, Brianna, a kindergartner could fool me these days! Especially one with a "Hilliary for President" bumper sticker on her trike! :lol:

i give up.

UT, is there some easy way to bookmark this thread for the 2008 election arguments?

:lol:

Am I being paraniod or did you just insinuate that I am a liberal? I mean your post came right after mine was quoted. Was that a coincidence? :worried:

No. I'm not saying you are a liberal, footfootfoot. Coincidence!

LOL Thread drift! You gotta love it! Am I the only one on this board who openly admits to the L word without apology? Yeah, go ACLU! I love Jimmy Carter! I think we need to have national health insurance and every single public school should provide the same level of excellent education for every last one of this nation's children! I think we need to be concerned for the environment because its the only we got and if we mess it up, life on Pluto is NOT an alternative! I refuse to buy into the propaganda that Wal Mart is somehow involved in a global free market. I think working people deserve to earn a living wage.

And I'M NOT SORRY! SO THERE! :lol:

I have to say that all fits me but I don't know if it makes me a liberal. Depends on who you ask I'm sure.

Back off Hippie! You don't know where I've been. I've woke up bleeding, although I wasn't in fear of my life, I was pretty pissed off.
Everybody over 6, without exception, has been put in the middle by two people they like. Quite often it's their damn parents.
It's not a traumatic experience for a rational adult. It's not about the one in the middle, you/me/they, are just like a barrel in a barrel race.......incidential. :headshake

Whoops! Sorry, big guy! I think we mis-understood one another. I was referring to the experience of waking up one morning next to an ax murderer; I guess you meant getting caught between two friends. Yeah, that last one we pretty much all have been through. :blush:

liberals are too conservative for me and anarchists don't have a sense of humor. I'll just keep looking for a good label to apply to myself.

I'm liking Bruce's AS IS

I yam whats I yam and thats all thats I yam.
The IYWIYATATIY party. :bogroll: