Wierd sayings
 

We were just discussing some of the stranger sayings we have (in UK which perhaps have travelled to the USA), such as;

'I know that place like the back of my hand' - when very few of us know the backs of our hands that well, and where would such a saying have come from anyway??

Equally 'that would be like teaching your granny to suck eggs' - did granny suck eggs? Is it some obsure reference to her absence of teeth thereby rendering egg consumption a sucking affair???

All very confusing.

Any suggestions as to their derivation? Any more that confuse?

A sure sign it's Friday and winding down time....

I don't know the origin of those with googling, and somehow that seems like cheating, so I'll just answer questions with more questions if that's ok.

I'm still trying to find the origin of the phrase "More [insert item] than you can shake a stick at" I'm not satisfied by the answers I've found on the internet...

Another stick related query:
I've always assumed the carrot & stick approach referred to a system of motivating by reward. In other words the carrot is dangled in front of the donkey via a long stick, and it strives to reach it.

Recently the phrase seems to imply its either carrot OR stick. So that the donkey is rewarded with a carrot or punished with a stick.

Has the phrase become misunderstood?

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick.

i actually heard an explanation of the term 'sucker' as being derived from old women stealing food from markets by poking a hole in an egg shell and sucking out the contents. it was during a lesson about the great depression, but it may have translated to the UK?

I've always wondered what the H stood for... Holy?


I'm having kittens here waiting to find out... :)

That would be better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick - is there a saying somewhere about sucking your eyes out...?? Or am I thinking of 'that really sucks'?

Our kittens from hell have a new home...meant to tell you...

I thought the 'H' was for Hova as in J.Hova (Jehova) Christ. Probably wrong (wife insists I usually am).

happy as a lark...are larks really that happy?

open up a can of worms...and then what happens?

quiet as a mouse...I hear them all the time.

sort of like herding cats

Change the order slightly and there is a logical progression:

open up a can of worms - and that will attract a lot of larks who once they have consumed the worms will be as....

happy as a lark - but all this feeding activity will likely attract other predatorial birds like hawks, kestrels and falcons who are particularly fond of those small furry creatures known as mice, so if the mice want to have a chance to survive they will need to be....

quiet as a mouse - which as you say isn't that quiet, hence a lot of them still get eaten...

Natures way of balancing the species, I suppose (BTW, wife says I'm wrong.....)

Sick as a parrot ( pre-dates avian flu so what caused the saying in the first place?)

Cuts the mustard - meaning: comes up to scratch (which could be another one except I think it has connections with golf and being a scratch/zero handicap player, but it may pre-date this)

It is carrot and stick. The phrase implies reward for doing well and punishment for doing poorly.

Hopping.

Jesus Harold Christ

Yes If something appeared or started to grow on the back of your hand wouldn't you notice? It means being able to spot any change right away. Heretic :) ...the H is added to skirt taking the name of the Lord in vain. They wiggle off in every direction at once and you have a big confusing mess. But not running their mouths off, just the noise of doing what they do.

hand....which side IS the back? the dorsal side, or ventral?

back of the hand - opposite of the palm :2cents:

well, i know the front of my hand better than the back.....of my hand

Cuts as in dilutes rather than separates, perhaps? Makes palatable?? Undiluted mustard is pretty strong stuff, after all, and overwhelms the tastebuds.

You know ... this might make an interesting party game.

I thought maybe someone already had done this, but the objective of Wise and Otherwise is to complete a maxim, not explain it.

I'd rather be broccoli.

Opening a can of worms usually means "making a bigger problem than the one you were trying to solve", because it is harder to deal with an open can of worms than a closed one. When the can is closed, you at least know roughly how many worms you have and where they can be found. Open the can, and the squiggle all over, and it is nearly impossible to put them back in.

Now..."Piss like a racehorse"...that's one that has always baffled the piss out of me. Are racehorses known for producing more urine than, say, a plough horse? Or is this related to the drug testing they make racehorses endure? I thought that was done via saliva, so shouldn't it in that case be "spit like a racehorse"?

Stupid sayings... :rar:

Drier then a popcorn fart. One of my favorites..
This one always gets me...

Cuter then a fat puppies ass..or Cuter then a bug's ear.

Drunker the Cooter Brown.

Huh?

Race horses are given the diuretic Lasix that in addition to making them piss a lot also helps to prevent them bleeding in the lungs from the exertion during races.

Hey! My dad used to say this, although I seem to remember it being 'piss like a Russian racehorse'. Huh. Who knew.

" a right smart"

EX: "He has a right smart of money".
"Yes, There were a right smart of people there"
***AND***

SAM HILL
Now what the Sam Hill does that 'spose to mean?

I disagree. I think Sundae Girl and xoxoxoBruce are right on this one.

Jesus H Christ! You have wierder ones in the US than in the UK.

Sam Hill??? Who the Dickens is Sam Hill??? And 'right smart' is another one I've never come across, unless it arises north of Watford (over to Sundae Girl...)

Piss like a racehorse - now I think that is a corruption of 'piss (it) like a racehorse', Where the idea of 'piss it' means to accomplish it easily, as in the English cockney 'it was a piece of piss' meaning it was really very easy, as it is to piss (or pass water*) when you need to (although we also use another phrase for the same thing describing something easy as 'being a right doddle' - and I have absolutely no (zilch??) idea about where that one comes from...!)

* there's a joke about this: guy goes to doctors complaining about feeling poorly, to which the doctor asks 'do you find you have trouble passing water?' to which the guy replies 'funny you should ask that, I came over real dizzy on the bus the other day, just as it was going past the local reservoir!' Oh well some you do, some you don't!

SAM HILL = hell


[Q] From Doug Hickey: “I have often heard in American movies and on television phrases like ‘What in the Sam Hill is going on?’ Or, ‘What the Sam Hill happened here?’ Or, some such exclamation. I have not been able to find the basis of this expression.”

[A] There is a story sometimes told (for example in Edwin Mitchell’s Encyclopedia of American Politics in 1946) that one Colonel Samuel Hill of Guilford, Connecticut, would often run for political office at some point in the early nineteenth century but always without success. Hence, “to run like Sam Hill” or “go like Sam Hill”. The problem is that nobody has found any trace of this monumentally unsuccessful candidate.

On the other hand, an article in the New England Magazine in December 1889 entitled Two Centuries and a Half in Guilford Connecticut mentioned that, “Between 1727 and 1752 Mr. Sam. Hill represented Guilford in forty-three out of forty-nine sessions of the Legislature, and when he was gathered to his fathers, his son Nathaniel reigned in his stead” and a footnote queried whether this might be the source of the “popular Connecticut adjuration to ‘Give ‘em Sam Hill’?” So the tale has long legs.

The expression has been known since the late 1830s. Despite the story, it seems to be no more than a personalised euphemism for “hell”.

that's just a hard goddamned fact of life.

I thought we were just going to speculate wildly and offer our own bullheaded opinions on these sayings. Now LJ has gone and brought apparent factual information into the mix. Damn, you can't fake anything anymore.

Fuck'n A Skippy ,

What the hell does this meen ? And who the Hell is Skippy ???

Skippy is the guy who invented the peanut butter.
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That'll learn ya.

How's about I break my foot off in your ass? - That sounds mighty painful.

I don't care if it short-dicks every cannibal in the Congo. - I know what it means. I use it at least once a week.

Colder than a witch's tit.

Oh for the love of Mike.

Or Pete.

Anyone who doesn't understand what "piss like a racehorse" means hasn't spent much time watching racehorses piss.

I wonder about things like ...

Useless as tits on a bull (as well as the "on a left handed monkey" version).

Speaking of tits ... why are winter temperatures referred to as being "colder than a witches tit?" I assure you mine are quite warm. I would probably me more amenable to experimental investigation of this particular saying that Els.

Speaking of weather ... Does a brass monkey actually have balls?

Speaking of balls ... why does that mean courage?

In the US we say "happy as a clam". In Mexico it's "happy as a worm." Of course, worms are probably less obviously happy than clams are, but in Mexico they like their sayings to rhyme. Thus they changed it to "feliz como un lombriz". Now that I think about it, few of our common sayings rhyme.

Cutting the Cheese is very difficult to explain to non-native English speakers.

I had to explain that to the CEO/Medical Director of our hospital.

In the board room.

During a meeting.

She said it in the course of preparing an elaborate cheese tray intended for a later meeting.

Our executive staff all stifled a guffaw when she told me to tell someone waiting for her that she would be with them when she was through cutting the cheese.

Seeing the looks around the table, she figured out that she had obviously made some linquistic faux pas, but no one was willing to explain it to her.

I had to.

The Medical Director/CEO is from Spain. She speaks at least 1/2 dozen languages. American Idiom still mystifies her despite living in this country for more than 40 years.

Legend says The Navy says :neutral:

That one about flipping the bird isn't true either.

Not sure about yr answer Crimson. I thought Skippy was a famous Australian kangaroo (the Ozzie answer to Lassie, although I think the old 'What's the matter Lassie?' 'bark-bark-bark-bark!' 'What! Little Jimmy's fallen in the well?' 'Bark-bark-bark-bark!' 'And the rope's broken so you can't pull him out?', etc., etc., was replaced with some strange chittering and mouth wobbling which is all kangaroos can do, otherwise the 'conversation' followed much the same line - BTW whaever happend to Rin-tin-tin? - Go, Rinty, go!! - and anyone remember the name of his young boy master? Did he go on to greater things, like, maybe Champion the Wonder Horse, or perhaps The Elephant Man?? ). Sorry, got a bit carried away there - back to Skippy - IMHP, that makes the saying more visually appealing to an Australian (and possibly even to a Welshman) who would usually have to make do with a sheep!

Rin-Tin-Tin's boy was named Rusty. No last name. I seem to recall him being the charming orphan that for some reason lived at the Cavalry fort.

I am young enoug that Rin-Tin-Tin predates me by quite a few years, but old enough that the B&W reruns were on TV when I was a kid.

I liked the Lone Ranger a lot better.

Thanks Wolf - came back in a flash as I read it. Agree with you about Lone Ranger - those old silver bullets do it every time. Guy who played hime was Clay Silverheels(?)... And did you ever catch the strip of Lone Ranger in Mad Magazine? Good old Tonto (apparently tonto in Spanish means idiot!). Not to deviate too long from the purpose of this thread, would add that my favourite was Range Rider with JocK Mahoney - they just got the fight sound effects and actions to real 'total-awe' level from a young appreciative boy viewer's standpoint!

Saw your brass monkeys query - some do, some don't depends on the foundry doing the casting and whether there's enough brass left over ( you cold get some 'total-awe' ones from the right foundry!)

Which brings up another saying we have here: 'pull the other one, it's got bells on' meaning that the person saying it saw that someone was trying to play a joke on him or con him or embarass him. Think it comes from 'pulling the leg' meaning to play a prank on a person.

The only 'clean' reference to bells I can think of would be those strange country dancers we have known as Morris Men - all dressed in white trousers and shirts, wearing straw hats with ribbons, bells around the bottoms of their trousers, dancing in heavy duty boots and banging each others sticks (that they carry in their right hand) together. All to the accompaniment of unrecognisable tunes played on an accordion by a three-parts drunk person who insists on tapping his foot almost in time and swaying back and forth as he plays. See, I told you we were normal!

Just remembered a north England saying from Yorkshire/Lancashire area which is said when told something surprising or incredible:

'Well, I'll go t' foot of our stairs!'

Why...???

I actually happen to like Morris Dancing.

Lovely way to spend the First of May, isn't it?

Jay Silverheels played Tonto, Clayton Moore was the Lone Ranger.

Now, gentleman ... what is it about your left nut in particular that makes you want to trade it for things? And did Lance Armstrong offer his to the devil to win the Tour DeFrance that many times in a row ...

Mystery masked man was smarter
He got himself a Tonto
Cuz Tonto did the dirty work for free
But Tonto he was smarter
Said, "Kiss my ass Kimosabe,
I've bought a boat, I'm going out to sea..."
- Lyle Lovett

You and me who, white man?

Lance Armstrong was just faster than greased lightening.

Does anyone besides me think that Monty Python's "The Fish Slapping Dance" was based on Morris Dancing?

My preferred rendering

I like "Tempest in a Teapot". Say you start to actually get grumpy about an on-line argument...

Just for the trivia buffs, "Rin Tin Tin's boy", Rusty, was played by Robert Blake. Later, he also played "Little Beaver" to another Western hero, Red Ryder.

BTW: Tonto got his name by virtue of the Tonto Indian tribe. I'm not sure where they were located, but the Tonto tribe was part of the Apache Nation. I think there is even a Tonto National Forest in Arizona. Since the Lone Ranger story was supposed to start in Texas, it would be interesting to find out why the author of the original book chose a Native American who wouldn't normally have been anywhere near there, but the white man had a knack for messing up facts when these "Sage Brush Romances" became popular around the turn of the 19th Century. More BTW: Apaches never wore the kind of buckskin outfit that Tonto traditionally wears in the movies, that garb was more like what Kit Carson and the Fremont Scouts wore in the 1840's. Jay Silverheels is also using a hairstyle which is distinctly Navajo; Apaches wore their hair straight and long.

As to why the tribe ended up with the name "tonto" in the first place, we can only imagine that some administrator for New Spain or a mission padre who was exasperated with trying to get more work out of the Indians they essentially enslaved remarked "Mirad a esos tontos!" when some of the people shuffled by, and the derogatory comment stuck.

Your privilege. But American Heritage Dictionary of the English language has this to say:

This only make senses if part of the phrase implies punishment.

How many of those dictionary writers even saw a donkey, let alone try to move one. They've taken a perfectly logical expression and corrupted it.
Good luck trying to bribe that juvenile offender with a stinkin carrot. :p

Good luck disciplining one with a stick, either. Not that I'm in favor of child abuse, but most of them seem to get off with a light rap across the knuckles these days.

For a hilarious take from an Indian on Tonto, try here

In the movies, Indians are always accompanied by ominous music. And I've seen so many Indian movies that I feel like I'm constantly accompanied by ominous music. I always feel that something bad is about to happen.

I am always aware of how my whole life is shaped by my hatred of Tonto. Whenever I think of Tonto, I hear ominous music.

Interesting. Almost all sites returned from a google search agreed with you, except that many of them also involved the riding-the-donkey origins...

From Merriam-Webster:

"Etymology: from the traditional alternatives of driving a donkey on by either holding out a carrot or whipping it with a stick: characterized by the use of both reward and punishment to induce cooperation."

But what do you hold the carrot out with, if not a stick? You have to carry two sticks to ride a donkey? They must be damn stubborn. ;)

"happy as a lark"
Lark as in: harmless prank or merry spree. From Old Norse leika (play)

With the carrot you stand IN FRONT of the donkey. With the stick, you are BEHIND him.

Well, you might have a point there...
And you got me to thinking...
Thank God for early TV, giving us a boy and his dog.
Always a good thing to teach children about beastiality early.

------------------
I'll fuck you sideways and scream Easter Sunday! - Yeah... Huh... What?

Robert Blake did appear in one Rin-Tin-Tin movie as "Paul the Refugee Lad" around the same time he was in the Red Ryder films (1947).

Lee Aaker played Rusty in the Adventures of Rin-Tin-Tin TV Show.

OK, so much for IMDB ;)

One of my father's Army buddies (in the early '60s) later became a high-profile PI in LA. He told me in '78 that Robert Blake had once asked him for help in getting a handgun. Apparenty, such requests (from clients) were commonplace but he uncharacteristically decined to help Blake and explained to me at the time that he thought that people "like Blake" should never be allowed to own a weapon. It was not a decision he struggled with.

I called him during Blake's murder trial and reminded him of what he had told me 20+ years ago. He paused for a time before changing the subject.

The 'cutting the cheese' incident reminds me that I read that 'breaking wind' means 'farting' (anyone know the origin) in Britain. So if you were to go into a London store, you probably don't want to ask for a 'windbreaker'. I think they use a slightly different term.

I used to love the phrases used on "McCloud".

'Rode hard and put away wet'.
I'm not sure about this one - "Wherever you go, there you are".

To my mind the carrot and stick refers originally to the two methods of getting results out of a horse/mule/donkey, the first being to encourage by way of motivation or reward (the bribe offer of a carrot) the second being the punitive method (strike with a stick).

The method is easily transferrable to describe any other situation where a result is required - you can either try to win the person round by reward or motrivation, or you can make them produce by threat of or even application of violence. 'Carrot and stick' is also used over here to describe the police tactic employed to get a confession out of a subject. Two police officers, one offering the kind approach ('come on Charlie, what's the point of holding out, it's you they've left holding the baby, fat lot they think of you, tell us who put you up to it...') and the ther the hard-nosed approach (' you're going go down for this, the only chance you've got is to tell us who set this up, hold back and I'll make sure you won't see the light of day for ten years minimum - and that's a promise...) :stickpoke