Life under GWB
 

"Under GWB" doesn't mean something dirty. Wash your mouth out.

I messed up. I wanted to check that my life had gone to hell under W and it was his fault. Somehow, suspiciously, the other thing got checked as my opinion. Weird. And, disconcerting.

My quality of life has deteriorated partly because of GWB's policies.

The reinforcement and expansion of the power of the executive branch is troublesome. The rollback, suspension and flouting of my civil liberties is frightening. The choices that have led to the dramatic expansion of our national debt were misguided and misleading and the results are going to be expensive and long lasting. Little things like his first Presidential directive forbidding doctors to discuss abortion and calling a rollback of emission standards the "Clear Skies Initiative" have corroded the bond between me and my government and eroded the trust between me and my government.

But mostly the greatly increased fear, distrust and uncertainty his policies, actions and words have spread through our society have sucked some of the life out of living.

GWB hasn't raised gas prices or made the hurricanes or cut me off in traffic. My quailty of life depends more on my attitude than on the quality leadership in the White House, thank God. But that very leadership concerns, frustrates and worries me--and that diminishes my quality of life.

We have lost civil liberties, environmental safeguards have been cut back or discarded completely, spending on the country's infra-structure has been disregarded in favor of spending on an unneccessary foreign war that takes more American and other human lives every day, fewer people have access to medical care, more children are homeless - the list goes on ad nauseum.

Junior's presidency has been a worse disaster for this country than 9/11 and Katrina combined.



PS Brianna, love your new sig!

I'm in the little or no relationship crowd. Most of the Bush problems are things that bite later. If we continue to destroy the dollar's value I could be screwed later, being a white Christian I won't suffer much from this homeland security nonsense right away, the destruction of the Bill of Rights was already well under way, a little adult leadership could help a lot but I'm gonna continue to try to live as if Washington doesn't exist. I'm not in the military so I guess Bush effects me not a bit.

Mari, the question wasn't "we," the question was "my." How has your life been directly affected by the Bush administration?

What I find interesting is the complete lack of people choosing the two "My quality of life has improved" options, but the large number of people choosing (like me) the "little or no relationship" option. If I were to guess, I'd say that all of the people in that category have had their situations improve in the last 5 years, they simply aren't attributing it to Bush.

Sounds like classic attribution bias: if something good happens to me, it's because I did it. If something bad happens, someone else must be to blame.

My life is directly affected by the quality of the air I breathe and the water I drink. My life is directly affected by my ability to go to the beautiful places "where the wild things are" to replenish my soul. My life is directly affected when I must comfort a friend whose husband has orders for Iraq in a couple of weeks. My life is directly affected when my rights of freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and the right to due process are infringed upon. My life is directly affected when I see my fellow countrymen trapped without food or water or sanitation or medical care for 6 fucking days, and I turn off the TV feeling heartsick and powerless. My life is directly affected when the child who might have grown up to be a scientist who comes up with a cure for my fatal illness, instead recieves a sub quality education, sub standard medical care and ends up working all his days as a janitor as a result. My life is directly affected when I see a man with a sign reading "Homeless Vet, please help!"

We are all interconnected. We are all Americans. What happens to the least of us, happens also to me. "Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee."

Well, tcha!

...And then there is the dirty little secret hiding in the back closet, which Jr. has ignored more than anybody since the Civil Rights "revolution", namely that those have-nots and know-nots whose numbers are growing daily because of his policies or the lack thereof, will be coming out to get us who are secure now at some unknown future. If we don't take care of these people NOW, we will sure as hell be seeing them later. Either in the jails or in the streets, these people will come back to haunt us. That is US, not Jr. and his elitists, they will have bunkers and machine guns around their properties and their bank accounts. It is the rest of us who will pay for these horrible choices of his, both physically and financially. And THAT is going to change the quality of life for millions of us, including plenty of folks who used to never see anything wrong when they looked around them.

Without a doubt, I personally am more responsible for the state of my being than anyone else.

Well Tonch, I wish I had the identical Cellar post that Cerebus/Omigod posted about 12 years ago. Care to make a prediction for the Cellar Calendar?

Toad, it would be great if one of us could book this on a calandar, because I don't want Jr. and his family to be the only ones who have time to get out of the way. Obviously a lot of your original members have been planning for quite some time, and I confess that curiosity about what you were up to was part of why I was lurking around The Cellar a year ago. The thing that pisses me off the most is knowing that after all these years of study and cultural admiration, I might end up staring down the barrel of some drug-up Chicano's gun, frantically trying to persuade him "No soy tu enemiga, simpatizo completamente con ustedes, no me maten!"

Let me add one other thing. If our lives are not affected by those whom we choose to lead us (or those who grab power into their own hands), then why is democracy such a sacred ideal? Why bother to go out and vote if the outcome of the elections is meaningless to me and everyone else? A big rationale for the war in Iraq is that we are generously helping the Iraqi people rid themselves of an evil dictator and have free elections. I don't buy this excuse for one moment, but the fact that it is given and that so many people buy into it must mean that people feel the quality of their leadership impacts their lives, and that they have a right to say which individuals will be their leaders. So important is this principle, that people will give their lives for this ideal.

Certainly, we are all responsible for our own individual well-being and happiness, that is why we have the responsibility to uphold the principles of this democratic republic we call the United States of America. In order to ensure my own well being, it is a matter of integrity for me to speak out when I see this country's leadership ignore the democratic ideal for reasons of personal gain and power.

People who state that the government has no impact on their personal lives are being disingenious at best, fools who deserve the government that is coming for them, at worst.

If you think things are going to hell in a handbasket, maybe you don't remember - things are always going to hell in a handbasket. We have seen this before, and not only did we live through it, we got better.

For example, Iraq is now broadly considered another Vietnam, but Vietnam was in fact much worse. Many more soldiers died during it and those soliders were typically drafted. When you focus out on the big picture, you see things anew. As a threat to civil liberties, roving wiretaps just don't compete with people being taken off to war against their will. In these days, the civil liberties horror is that the protestors have to be in a certain special area. Back then, people were getting SHOT during protests.

If you focus and concentrate on the worst -- you can convince yourself that armageddon is near. But you are applying a filter to your vision of the world, and you are probably wrong.

The story of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer is repeated all the time. In all the years I've had my head out of the sand, I've heard the doomsayers making that same statement. By this time the rich should be shitting on golden toilets and the poor should have the distended bellies we see in famine Africa. But we aren't, because the doomy gloomy vision is a bad filter.

my life has improved because i've worked my ass off. GWB is irrelevant to me in the day to day, but offends my sensibilities with his policy, both domestic and foreign.

who can say that a president directly effected them unless they actually work in politics, or for him personally? how do i know that i woudnt have been doing better or worse had Gore been at the helm, lo these last 5 years?

fuckedifIknow.

heh under Bush.

http://home.san.rr.com/crocuta/GayBetaMax.htm

I'm just gonna cherry pick here UT, cause I gotta jet, but...

Civil liberty erosion is considerably more dire that having the protestors confined far away, although I find that chickenshit at best. I'm talking about stuff like this. U.S. Can Confine Citizens Without Charges, Court Rules So now it's "legal" to just sweep you up. Maybe you'll stay in the United States, uncharged, incommunicado, or maybe you be subject to "extraordinary rendition". These are GWB spirited policies. Not just sticking his fingers in his ears when people protest. He can make you go away.

He's pressing hard for the expansion of the military's role in a domestic disaster. As if he didn't already have the ability to mobilize the federal forces for everything BUT law enforcement, now he wants that--the end of posse commitatus. That's not a filter, that's not chicken little. That's a real problem.


I can't fairly allocate all the blame for the greatest disparity in wealth in our nation's history to GWB, but this dangerous situation has been accelerated by his policies and ideas. If you hollow out the middle, the tiny tip of the pyramid has nothing to support it. No, I don't have a calendar date to post, but I believe we're careening toward the train wreck described by Tonchi. GWB has greased those skids to his own short sighted benefit, and we'll all suffer later, like so many are suffering now. The ludicrous adventure in Iraq is just his trophy example of poor leadership. Poor stewardship of this country's trust and resources. A shameful waste of our blood and treasure.

The US first became involved in the Vietnam conflict in 1956. The first contingent of marines arrived there in 1965. My Dad did his first tour in 'Nam in 1964. At that point, military with orders for Vietnam could still sometimes bring dependents with them on their tour of duty. I remember reading the army pamplet for spouses and families on what to expect of life in Saigon. Who can say what the conflict in Iraq will turn into? Not me. I do know that the army is having great difficulty meeting recruitment targets and over on the Army Times board, there is the strong scent of a new draft order in the air. Something is going to have to give at the current rate. We will either get out of Iraq or re-instate the draft. Certainly, young men are still being required to sign up for selective service.

As far as anti-war protestors being shot, this was not a matter of government rules or regulations. Kent State was the result of inexperienced members of the National Guard under incompetant leadership, not official policy. It is now official policy that protestors be cordoned off somewhere out of sight. This is an infringement of free speech that was never dreamed of in even the darkest days of the Vietnam era.

But you are applying a filter to your vision of the world, and you are probably wrong.

Who? Me? How were my statements above wrong?

When your support is entirely through public assistance you have a much different view of the state of the world than if you're actually working to earn your keep.

And before you start ... how or why you are on welfare/disability/support payments is not relevant to the viewpoint. The fact is that you are, and therefore view any possibility of change to that as a threat to your well-being.

My quality of life has improved under GWB.
Hey, I work for the military/industrial hydra, and the money flows like water.

Your money, your children's money, your children's children's money.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha. :footpyth:

The only way you could have had a brighter future, xoB, is if the Democrats had won. Al Gore proposed a defense budget increase of $100B over W's budget. He was the hawkest of all hawks at one time.

Believe it or not, I didn't have an agenda when I put up this poll, other than being genuinely curious where people stood. I really expected more "my life is worse because I HATE HIM AND I HOPE HE DIES AND HE EATS BABIES!!!!!!!11"

We all seem to perceive some kind of relationship between national politics and our day to day lives, but is it possible that for most of us, this is an illusion? Yes, national policy affects the grand scheme of things, and at some point a trickle down the back of our neck can be traced (vaguely) back to a particular cloud. But maybe the problem isn't the cloud -- maybe you should have shut the collar on your shirt [/weak metaphor]. But if you're not in the military, on welfare, or otherwise intimately involved with government, isn't it all just academic in the end? How many of us (I'm sure there are some) can actually say "In 1999, I sure enjoyed replenishing my soul at location <x>, but then Bush came and cut down all the trees, and now a piece of me is gone forever." How many can say "I had a job in 99, but when Bush got into office, I was not only laid off, but unable to find work simply because of who was in the white house. It had nothing to do with my performance or any other economic factors."

I think quality of life is measured by your relationship with God, family, friends, and your immediate environment. Money's important, so is fun. So is not being afraid. But just because one chooses to build their life around doom and gloom just because they didn't get their guy in the WH, doesn't make their shitty life anyone's fault but theirs.

/2cents, etc.

Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat with you, Bruce. Yes, I have a hard time sleeping at night, and an even harder time getting up to go to work in the morning.
However, I'll state that my QOL has decreased under Bush -- I was unemployed for 8 months. I worry (at least twice a day, when I listen to the news) about how badly he's f*cking up our country and our world. I have a hard time trying to think of ONE thing he has done in the past 5 years with which I can agree. :headshake

Wasn't going to start. And my support is not entirely through SSDI. And the concerns I voiced are valid for EVERYBODY, not just someone on disability who is also on the Ticket to WORK program.

Because democracy itself does not choose who leads us, nor require any specific ideals of them. It is merely a system of allowing people to choose. My life has improved because I have the freedom to choose what I do with it. If a real dictator came along, I believe that the system would work and he would be voted out. It is not the leader's responsibility to improve my life, it is my responsibility to vote for people who will allow me to improve my own life.

The government as it exists (namely, democracy) has lots of impact on my personal life compared to, say, socialism. The particular platforms of a specific administration, however, do not.

Your concerns are not valid for me. The quality of the air I breathe and the water I drink has not changed for me in the last 5 years. My ability to go to the beautiful places "where the wild things are" has not been hampered in my entire life, and besides I have entirely other methods by which I prefer to replenish my soul. I have never had to comfort a friend whose husband has orders for Iraq in a couple of weeks, but if I did my comfort would be somewhat less heart-wrenched than yours because I understand that that's the job they signed up for. I can still say anything I want (freedom of speech), congregate with any of my peers at any time (freedom of assembly), and I have never been arrested (the right to due process), let alone in the past five years. I know that tragedies are a part of life, so when I see my fellow countrymen trapped without food or water or sanitation or medical care for 6 fucking days, I don't feel any more or less heartsick and powerless than one normally does in those situations, which have been happening for considerably more than 5 years. I do not believe that there is any such thing as the child who might have grown up to be a scientist who will be 100% stunted in his genuine efforts because he recieves a sub quality education, sub standard medical care and ends up working all his days as a janitor because I know there are dozens of factors at play in such a conjecture. I am lightly annoyed when I see a man with a sign reading "Homeless Vet, please help!", but I haven't seen an increase in the number of them over my entire lifetime.

Lucky you. And how do you know the quality of my response? Just because someone signs up for a career in the military, should I feel indifferent when they recieve orders for a combat zone in what I percieve to be an unjust and uncalled for war? My Dad proudly served this country as a member of the career military for 30 years. Does this mean that I worried any less for his safety when he was called upon to fight in Vietnam, not once but twice? Because he "volunteered" was his life less worthy of concern than some damn civilian's who chose to stay at home?

I'm old as the hills, Clodfobble and I grew up in a military town. I can assure you that once upon time it would have been unthinkable to see that man with his "Homeless Vet" sign.

As for the rest of your response, you are welcome to your opinion, but your opinion sucks in regard to the soldier with orders for Iraq. I support our troops with all my heart. It makes me angry and sad to see brave men and women sent off to possibly die in a stupid, unnecessary war. I don't have your sublime indifference to this.

The good thing is GWB only has a couple more years to fuck things up. Then we get some new moron to fuck things up in new and wonderful ways.

I won't be happy with any government until I'm elected Infallible Supreme Lord Emperor of the Known Universe.
:vikingsmi:
:noevil:

Funny thing about those crazy homeless vets?

You call up the VA hospital to try to get them in and they just don't exist.

Oh. Yeah. They were all on some secret mission in Cambodia and that's why they don't have a record in the system. Right.

That's because he had SURPLUS to work with. :lol:

Pie, I know what you mean.

No, its called incompetance on the part of the VA. For a while, the VA thought my Dad didn't exist either when he needed some surgery. I went through the roof and they finally decided that he actually had been in the military after I chewed them out up one side of the room and down the other. At the moment, the local VA counseling center has a case load of like 500 vets per therapist. :mad:

Policies of George Jr in many cases have not yet appeared in your life. For example, now that the drug industry has had their 'double' drug prices in America protected by George Jr socialism - complete with an $8billion corporate welfare - well, those costs are coming to a drug store near you.

The stock market has seen zero growth after the initial George Jr downturn. This while the propaganda says otherwise - and debts are piling up like surges upon a New Orleans levee.

Gasoline prices more than doubled We somehow think this has not impacted the economy? Well, yes. Because those problems like so many others created by George Jr are still behind that levee.

Let's not forget how many future enemies are being produced and cultured today by George Jr - who even authorizes torture as violent as that imposed by N Vietnamese upon American prisoners. We openly advocate torture and somehow pretend it is not happening. But travel the world to see how it has impacted where an Americans are still warmly welcomed.

How bad will your expenses become? Transportation industries - especially GM and the airlines - will cause lower American living standards when their debt dam bursts - including massive pensions fund defaults. You still think everything is just fine? Notice the debts not yet booked since the George Jr administration can hide them with SS, FAA, and Highway Trust Fund ‘book keeping’.

I watch things like wholesale electric prices. Normally grid electricity would sell anywhere from $20 per megawatt hour up to $60. However even in this week - when electricity is not in demand - those wholesale prices during the day have been on the order of $200 and $220. You tell me. Has your electric bill gone up - let alone go up by a factor of 10? Just another example of market forces piling up behind the levee. What will your oil or gas heating bill look like this winter? You have a nestegg for those expenses including rising taxes because government also needs to pay their energy bills?

Denial remains widespread. Those who are subjective claim that SUV sales have decreased. Yes. And then we look at the numbers - how realists learn. The decrease is so small as to be called zero. Another symptom of denial as debt and inflation pile up behind that levee. But George Jr says, "No one expected the levees to be breached". That's how bad it may get. Many of us are still thinking as if we too are George Jr. - in denial.

"We are all interconnected. We are all Americans. What happens to the least of us, happens also to me. "Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.""

Words of wisdom indeed.

"When your support is entirely through public assistance you have a much different view of the state of the world than if you're actually working to earn your keep. "

I work for a living and I still share Marichiko's point of view. If the only people who gave a shit about the people at the bottom of the pile, were the people at the bottom of the pile, we'd have a cold and callous jungle of a world and that would be a pity.

Does one really have to be dependant upon the state, in order to see oneself as intrinsically linked to one's countrymen? I find that deeply sad; not to mention indicative of pretty much all that's wrong with the Capitalist West (imo)

I also find it amusing that every time Marichiko dares to have an opinion on society, Wolf finds a way to work in an insult/jibe about her lack of income. What's your next trick Wolf? Nip down to the nearest set of slums and laugh at the poor people, maybe wave a wad of money in their faces ?

Dana, what I find interesting is that the points I brought up - environmental concerns, the war in Iraq, loss of civil liberties - had little to do with income.

Some people who are at a loss to answer the issues I raise will, instead, answer the issues I don't raise and turn a debate into a personal attack. This one dimensional response demonstrates to me an unwillingness to think in any but the most reflexive, knee jerk way. It is intellectually lazy and, ultimately, boring.

The refusal to think outside the box and the assumption that "I'm OK, and anybody else who isn't must be fucked," is widespread in this country and is one of the greatest detriments around to the US remaining a free and strong country.

Disagree. What I see is economic strata has a large bearing on the individuals view of those subjects. :eyebrow:
There are, of course, exceptions. But I don't think it's an unfair generalization.

In what way, Bruce? I actually think those with good incomes would be more worried about the environment, for example. They have the freedom from other worries to think of the big picture rather than the small day to day one of personal survival. The man living in a cardboard box is just worried if its going to get below freezing tonight. An environmental concern, yes - but not exactly a national or global one.

Or, is that what you meant?

If you have enough money, you can buy your way out of the ill effects of pollution, the Iraq war, and the loss of civil liberties. At least in the short term.

You have a point, HM. Never-the-less, look at the make up of the Sierra Club, The Nature Conservancy, and the ACLU, just to give a few examples. Very few of their members make less than 10K/year and those who do are most likely college students.

At least this poll wasn't too screwed up to include an answer I could give, unlike that other one. This one actually shows a poll methodology, rather than foregone conclusions.

According to this collection of polling data, the environment is not top-ten for most people.

Which is not to say it shouldn't be. As someone with a degree in biology/ecology as well as being a person who grew up in the Rocky Mountain West, I see disturbing signs of environmental degredation everywhere. The birds coming home to roost will be ones that NONE of us are going to be fond of.


However, my point was not about the environment's popularity as an issue, I was merely using it as one example of concerns that people who are NOT poor have about the impact of Junior's administration.

You could be like my son who is both on disability, yet works as hard as he can at the most meager, often humiliating sort of job, trying to be as self-sufficient as possible, and make a better world for himself in the process. Missouri's Republican governor decided we had to cut the Medicaid costs, so guess who gets to bear a portion? My kid. "Oh, you earn some money? Well, then, you can afford to pay $146.00 more out of pocket per month for your coverage."

The great thing was, Gubnah Blunt (apparently named after what he's been smoking) then gave a large free ride to corporate energy users, choosing instead to let the public pay *all* of the environmental impact fees required by new legislation. This is good for business, you see, so therefore it is good for people like my son, already barely keeping their heads above water in the face of spiraling prices and zero chance of obtaining a better job or even getting out of the public dole.

My kid gets hosed in just about every way possible. I think it is time we just start putting the gimps out on an ice floe and waving goodbye to them, or perhaps throwing them all in concentration camps and feeding them expired dog food.

Well, Mari, I belong to two of the three anyway, does that still count? ;)

And actually, Bruce, I also beg to differ because I have not changed my social attitudes, political leanings, or the things about government that make me mad or that get my approval. The names and faces and dates might change, but what I called shit once is still shit now. From the time I was a college brat supported by parents, to working for a large multinational (Republican) company, to getting married, buying a house, losing it, and getting divorced 10 years later, to pulling myself back up by my teeth and nails, and finally to being on total disability for the last two years and unable to work due to a pulmonary embolism and severe scoliosis, my views have not changed. I have made a high of 52K in my best year in the 80's and went to a NEGATIVE 25K today, but in all that time and circumstances I still believe in the same principles. I never felt I was "owed" anything except fair tax levies and that is NOT an entitlement, it is the reason we fought to found an independent country. I feel no hostility toward the government or resentment because I TONCHI am now a "Have-Not". I feel hostility toward stupidity, waste, lies, and pork being force-fed to the citizens, along with a serious helping of hot lead from countries we have no business being in. I fail to see where your assumptions about income-created social status and perceived social injustices can be applied to EVERYBODY, and I respectfully ask for a retraction.

Ladies please, compare the attitudes of the guy making $50k to the guy making $300k. Or the guy with real clout making a million. California chicks never cease to amaze me. Retraction of what? My opinion? Get real. :lol2:

OK, so now we know that Bruce considers 52K in 1984 as chump change and does not qualify me as a Master of the Universe. We don't have an icon for mooning, do we? And no, I am not a California Girl. I am a Southern Girl who has lived in 6 other states and I'm here right now for the UCSD Thornton Hospital Pulmonary Medicine and Critical Care Division and because my only US relatives happen to be here. In cases where you are expected to die, it's helpful to have somebody around to bury you.

I was not asking you to retract an opinion, I asked you to retract an unfair generalization, which I understood is fair game at this forum. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.

I didn't say $50k was chump change.
We're talking about life under Bush which is not the 80s.
You're in CA, right?
Flash your ass at your own risk.
What you call an "unfair generalization" is my opinion, go back and read the fucking post.
I called nothing a fact so work on your reading comprehension while your at it.
I retract nothing. :p

You are asking us to compare attitudes of people in different income brackets. In other words, you wish us to make a generalization as to what their attitudes might be. I think you're splitting hairs on this one, Bruce.

No, I want you to get out of your microcosm and find out what the rest of the population think.
Birds of a feather flock together and haven't a clue what the other flockers think.
UT gave you the data but you say it shouldn't be that way. That's your opinion but obviously the polls show the public doesn't agree with you.
Fine, you're entitled to your view but don't try to represent it as the majority view. You may be the voice of reason or the cry in the wilderness but in the end, you are just you. :neutral:

My quality of life has deteriorated under GWB, because of Katrina and the great COL. increase upcoming for next year. BTW I don't belive he's in the drivers seat anyway. WTF!

WHOA.

first off, i can;t believe I actually read one of your posts.

second: people with good incomes usually have JOBS. that can severely hamper your ability to reflect upon anything other than getting through your day with only 24 hours available. I lived in a van for 3 months in a row, and while i did have to discover dinner everyday, i have never felt more at peace.

You can cite (however many degrees in this and that that you want, you're still looking at the world from an entitled viewpoint....(and yet, somehow, you manage to sound snobby at the same time)... no one owes you anything. survive, or die, just stop holding your hand out.

Hey, I'm open, Brurce. I actually tried to find data that gave a breakdown of attitudes and concerns by the income brackets you mentioned, but couldn't find one. So where's your cite on that? I'd be honestly curious to see it.

Errrr... Actually you didn't

What's the matter? Can't chew gum and scratch your nose at the same time? Of course folks have jobs. But most of 'em also have this thing called free time unless they're workaholics or something. I used to commute up to Denver for a job that I spent 9 or 10 hours a day at. The commute took me another 3 hours minimum. That was like a 12 hour day. On my drive I'd listen to NPR and worry about my pet things to worry about. Since stuff like the basics was covered, I'd worry about the Oklahoma City bombing, the elections, the environment, whatever else crossed my mind. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Maybe you should go back to living in your van.

This is why I know you haven't been reading my posts. Where in this thread have I been holding my hand out? A concern for the environment (to continue with my example) does not arise out of a sense of entitlement, but rather a sense of responsibility and a concern for the serious issues that I see both this nation and the planet at a cross roads over. Am I snobby to admit that I have a college degree? You admit that you are a hotshot at a car dealership. I might call you a snob for that, but I don't.

Again, it is merely intellectual laziness to go back to an argument that is at least a year old and which I haven't even set forth in this thread, instead of dealing with the issues that I have raised in the here and now.

If you want to jump all over someone about entitlements, why don't you jump on Patrick? He raised that issue in regard to his son, I didn't.

well, for starters, his son doesn't whine incessantly on a message board that i frequent. And, I like Spode.

admit? interesting choice of words. no, if it was an admission, someone else would have had to bring it up repeatedly, right? when you do it, it's self promotion.

And. I didn't say I read your posts. i said i accidentally read ONE of your posts. I must have forgotten to look at the author, and as it was a relatively short one, i was through it before I realized what I was doing.


cock.

Well, young man, see that you don't make that mistake again!

cock


:lol:

OH SHIT. i'm up to three now. man, it;s insidious

"Oh, I've said It again! Oh, there, I said It again! There It is again!"

-The Knights Who Until Recently Said Nicht

I'll try to watch the whining on my son's behalf lest I offend. :rolleyes:

Stop acting the librarian and talk to people, better yet shut up and listen to people, outside your social circle.
Cites? Do you see one thing in that entire post that's stated as anything other than opinion from personal experience? One stated "fact"? :eyebrow:

Do you hear a hew and cry from ANY economic strata other than the environmentalists that make it their preoccupation if not occupation?
GWB has given us plenty of serious shit to worry about, very scary stuff, and the bunnies have taken a back seat.
Like it or not that's reality....or should I say priority.

How does one talk to people outside one's social circle, Bruce? What? Should I go to an upscale neighborhood and start knocking on doors and invite whoever answers to have an informal rap session with me? As a matter of fact, I do have an acquaintance who is a millionaire. She mostly talked about her problems finding a good nanny and how her husband refused to accomodate his work schedule to her afternoon jogging routine. Pretty shallow, all in all, but I'd hardly extrapolate from her to millionaire's in general. I'm sure that some have found excellent nannies for their children.

Well, I don't know what post you are thinking of, but my question was in direct responses to this:

I'm sorry my social circle isn't wide enough for your liking, Bruce. I have the one millionaire passing acquaintance; I know a number of people whose income is probably around $50K, and, offhand, I can't think of anyone I know to really speak to in the $300K bracket. Maybe you'd like to invite me to your next poker party, so I can broaden my horizons. :eyebrow:



Way back a thousand posts ago, this was my answer to the the question in the OP:

I agree that this country faces many grave issues of which the environment is only one, and that environmental concerns may not be as much a priority to other people as they are to me. I picked environment out of the list as an example of something that people on "entitlements" probably wouldn't be so concerned about - that's all.

I am more worried about the war in Iraq, the economy, and the loss of civil liberties than I am the environment, anyhow. I think things won't go to hell environmentally for another 30 -50 years, at which point, I'll most likely be dead and buried, and since I don't have any children, my concern for the environment is rather abstract, at best.

I leave it to the young 'uns to worry about the bunnies coming home to roost. :rolleyes: