Illegal Immigrants Are Killing Us
 

I'm in Iraq, fighting terrorism from what they tell me, getting paid squat, spending a year away from my family, and I am constantly reading articles about Illegal Immigrants invading my own country. I would like to know why were are spending billions of dollars on this country, "fighting terrorism" and yet we throw away even more money at home by letting Illegals into the country to take more of our money.
The Illegals are bringing in disease, guns, drugs, possibly terrorists, gang members, and who knows what else, and we stand for it. We lose millions every year because of these people. We give them all the medical care they can take. We give them education that we pay for. Additionally, they send what money they earn back to Mexico. Hell, some states are even implementing a mandatory Spanish course for police, firemen, and EMTs so they can better communicate with people who don't speak English!!! Some congress people are trying to get them drivers licenses. There is even a man who wants Illegal Immigrants to have the power to vote at school board meetings. Are you kidding me? Not on my dime, Folks.
People, wake up! Let them come, yes, but lets make them legal so they have to at least pay taxes and earn what they get like the rest of us. Make them learn English so we don't have to waste our money on teaching people Spanish. It is America, last I knew. I think it's a shame there are parts of California where I can't even understand a person behind the counter at a gas station because they don't speak English.
"No thanks. I'll take my business elsewhere, Amigo."
Whether you agree with the war or not, you should pay attention to this illegal issue. This is our nation, People. This is America, not Amexico. I don't give a damn about Mexico's problems. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come in and start messing up ours. We need a stronger border. The politicians just don't seem to care. We need to wake them up a bit and remind them who is taking care of the bill-WE ARE. We need to remind them, we are the ones in charge. Write letters, make phone calls, start another website for the love of Pete. Do something. I can't believe this wasn't an issue on this website to begin with after all the praise I've heard about it....nothing on Illegal Immigration...Okay, I will begin the battle.

Okay -- so who is going to pick your fruit, wash your dishes, mow your lawn?...:eyebrow:
Do a little research before you start spouting garbage. Here's a good (short) article to start with: http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imopi.html

Not that I agree with nicotine, but I live in the Chicago 'burbs - so no fruit trees. The lot is small so I don't mind mowing. And I have a daughter on dish duty.

So I don't need immigrants for any of that.

But you do need your sugar. Sugar foolishly is produced in the US because your taxes pay for half of it. IOW Jose and Juan have no jobs. The sugar industry cannot move to where it is easy to produce AND where the people need jobs. So what do these people do? They do exactly as your own ancestors did when there were no jobs and where government / religious intolerance told them what religion to worship. Illegals go where the jobs are. There will be no stopping them by force because America needs them - in part thanks to the US government's enriching of selective industries.

If you have problem with illegal immigration, then start by demanding the administration stop subsidizing so many agricultural industries. As long as the government subsidizes food - and the biggest offenders are France and the U.S. - then we must import illegal immigrants in massive numbers.

Ever eat out? Ever eat a peach shipped from Cali? Still the same illegals. It doesn't have to be local to have a large impact on the economy that affects you.

You see, the main issue with illegal aliens is that...well, there illegal. They are breaking the law, they are here illegallly. I don't see why we should reward those who are breaking the law. Someone breaks into your house and steals all your electronic equipment. They get caught but someone thinks we should compensate that person monitarily for the time they spend in jail. Obviously, this a fictional scenario, but it's pretty much what folks want to see happen with illegal migrants. Give them the same rights I have for being here illegally.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not one of those people who complains because the imigrants are taking "my jobs" away from me. Pie has a point, who is going to do these mundain jobs that most Americans don't want anything to do with. I just had three Hispanic gentlemen in my backyard for the last three days moving dirt around to re-grade my yard. In the middle of August in the hot Arizona sun...what a suckass job that is. But there they were, working their buns off. I wouldn't want that job, no way, no how. But why do they have to be illegal aliens. I'm not hip on the mechanics of how to get to America legally. I don't know whether it cost money, there's a huge waiting list, that we only allow a certain number of folks in, how work visa's work. I don't know. Maybe someone can clue me in on how this works.

When you have illegal aliens working in this country, two things happen. One, they usually are getting paid under the table becuase they don't have social security numbers, so they are not paying taxes to support the public services that they use. Two, most of the money goes back over the border to support the rest of the family in Mexico. So in my slightly elementry economic knowledge, that does nothing for our economy.

Nicotinegun is clearly a jingoistic, nationalistic, moron who is woefully lacking in education; in particular history.

America was built by immigrants. Unless he's 100% American Indian, the only difference between his family and illegal Mexican immigrants is the accent with which they speak. When European immigrants came to America, all they had to do was show up and they'd be welcomed.

Now we've got a bunch of idiots trying to close the borders, and trying to make it tougher and tougher for someone to come here to work to build a better life for their families.

America has always welcomed immigrants with open arms and always should. It keeps labor and goods reasonably priced. It keeps competition high. And it makes sure the best and brightest from all over the world come here to put America on top.

A Mexican coming here is just as American as anyone born here, if not moreso. He CHOSE to come here, and did something about it. He isn't American by accident of birth. He worked hard to make it happen. The best Mexicans in the world are in America. The best Europeans in the world are in America. The best black people in the world are in America. We've got the strongest, fastest, and smartest people on earth because we welcome everyone.

Only a fool with no understanding of freedom would be against allowing an unlimited number of immigrants to come to America. But then again, only a fool with no concept of freedom would take part in the war in Iraq. In fact only a traitor who has violated his oath would follow the wholly unlawful order to invade Iraq. Only a coward who was afraid to go to the brig would comply.

The answer isn't to close off our borders. The answer is to remove each and every single unconstitutional social program like medicare, social security, welfare, public schools, etc. so there is no incentive for people to come here seeking handouts. Only to seek opportunity so they'd be contributing and not leeching.

Welcome to the Cellar, Nicotinegun.

There is a difference, Radar, between welcoming immigrants who come in through the front door for the purpose of bettering themselves, producing, contributing, and, oh yeah, learning English and the folks who are sneaking across the border, working under the table, and sending their kids to school that they aren't paying for, receiving medical care that they aren't paying for, etc. etc.

I don't know the source of the numbers, but some poll taken in Mexico indicated that HALF their population wanted to come to the US, and 20% were willing to come illegally. The question that raised for me was not "What's so great about America?" but "How do you fix what's broken in Mexico?"

Maddox has two great articles on a very similar topic.

As I said, the solution isn't to restrict immigration. It's to end all the social programs, medical care, etc. Also, Spanish has been spoken in America far longer than English and on a continual basis. I am for getting rid of public schools.

English is the language of business in America, and those who fail to learn it, won't do well in business.

Well this has totally buggered up my holiday plans. It was going to be a choice between Mexico and New Orleans. Now I 'm not sure if I should go to Mexico, as I would then be supporting the Mexicans who are more interested in poaching from the US economy than improving their own, nor for that matter if I should go to the US because I will most probably be encouraging more illegals by supporting the tourist industry where I would expect a lot of them find work. What a dilemma! - sounds as though it might have to be Cuba instead!

(If it's any consolation I thought NG was talking about the UK when I first started reading his diatribe - reckon this is a common problem across the western economies)

Think of it this way. If more people in Mexico make money, they'll have less reason to come to America. That's why I buy American cars. I want to keep jobs in Mexico.

The magic words are "working under the table," Wolf. American citizens are hiring illegal immigrants illegally. If Americans hired only legal workers and took deductions out of their wages for taxes, the illegals would be legal and they wouldn't be getting the "free ride" they are now. The story is not as simple as the evil Mexican, desperate for work. What's so wrong with wanting to work, anyhow? I think the employers that pay under the table are more at fault than the workers.

Close the borders, but make it easier to become a legal immigrant. If you want to become an American, we should make room for you. If you want to be a [insert country here]-ian, but take advantage of the American welfare system, our infrastructure, our health care, too damn bad. If you ring the doorbell and come in through the front door, you're a guest or a resident. If you crawl in through the window, you're an intruder.

Damn, ignorant crap like this pisses me off. OK, must calm down...must focus...

Those of you who think that illegal immigrants are leeching resources from us, without any return...Do you really think the IRS is that stupid?

There is a special tax ID number with which illegal immigrants can use to pay wage tax and Social Security. It's estimated that they pay in BILLIONS, and they usually do not end up collecting Social Security.

Why would illegal immigrants bother to get an ID number and pay taxes? Well, they are people who have most likely risked everything, including death, to come here and make better lives for themselves and their families. They see getting the special tax ID as a way to put themselves in good graces with the U.S. government.

Yes, some end up not being able to be as productive as they set out to be, and then there are the bad seeds. But for the most part, illegal immigrants have to rely on emergency health services because they work jobs which do not offer health care or allow them to afford health care insurance.

People always seems to forget this:

My great-grandparents were Mexicans until New Mexico became a state in 1912. My great-grandfather spoke five languages, including Spanish--English was not one of them. Learning a little Spanish is not going to kill anyone, in fact, it will only help, because Spanish is the most widely spoken language in the world.

Aargh!

If we had to rely on non-Hispanic workers here (of course, they are *all* legal, according to their ID's, which I am not required to be an expert about...their SS #'s are good, anyway), we'd be out of business. As far as I can tell, there aren't 50 qualified white guys in the entire city who even want the jobs we offer (insulation, gutter and fireplace installation).

Put your knee back in joint. Our grandparents were legal immigrants. Legal.

Legal.

They did not break the law and expect everyone else to congratulate them for it. I have no doubt that, like any other group of people, illegal immigrants comprise both good and bad folks. I'm sure they just want to make a living. I've worked alongside them in factories, warehouses, and fields. Half of my friends are of Mexican descent, several are from Mexico, and I can't count the number of people from that country I've hung out with over the years.

Oh by the way....a great number of them are pissed off that their countrymen are bringing heat down on the heads of honest, law-abiding immigrants. But if you think that any substantial number of illegals are paying taxes (or anything else), you're high. "It's estimated" is a garbage phrase. There is no way to estimate anything about them -- it's pure guesswork, because no one knows how many of them are here.

It's estimated that 100% of the illegals I worked with in a motorcycle helmet factory several years ago were paid in cash, and it was barely enough to get drunk on. You want burden? One of them broke his leg (actually it was nearly torn off) in a garbage compactor, and after he went to the emergency room, immigration got wind of the situation and cleared almost the whole factory out. Who knows what his bill was for the leg? Who knows what the cost of running his 50-odd coworkers through the system was? Who cares, anyway. We better cough it up, or else we're racist and xenophobic.

Yes, we should have compassion. That's why I said we should make it easier to get in legally. I think there should be some leeway for people who have been here a long time and have proven themselves to be productive members of our society. But fuck this noise about "if you don't like illegals pouring over the borders in record numbers, you're against Mexicans." It's a lie.

The legal/illegal distinction holds no water. When our grandparents came here, all they had to do to be legal was show up. Immigrants from Mexico should be able to do the same thing.

And nobody has addressed the fact that the federal government is given no authority over immigration by the U.S. Constitution. It is given authority over "naturalization", but not immigration.

There should be no limits on the number or country of origin of immigrants. If we get rid of handouts, we can be sure they're coming for opportunity, not welfare. Mexican immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes (a crime has not been committed unless the rights, property, or person of a non-consenting other are violated....this means using drugs, prostitution, suicide, walking across the border, etc. are NOT crimes) than the people born here.

That's a novel approach! If it wasn't as nice to be here, maybe they wouldn't want to come.

Maybe the Eutopean side of my family were legal immigrants, but they were hardly desirable. I come from Appalachian stock who arrived as indentured servants and Irish, Scots and Welsh trouble makers who were offered transportation out of the British Isles in lieu of prison. Back where I was born, one branch of the family was STILL considered no accounts who made their living distilling white lightening in the woods. One of my grandmother's was Cherokee - this was considered a disgrace in the South at the time.

As far as I'm concerned I have absolutely no right to talk about my law abiding ancestors versus the lawless Mexican wetback looking for work to support himself and his family.

I'm glad the rest of you are such blue bloods. Thanks to one of my criminal ancestors I qualify for membership in the DAR. BFD!

It would still be a nice place if charity were voluntary. In fact it would be nicer than it is now, because we'd have more of what we earn and be able to open new businesses, send our kids to better schools, give more to those in need, etc.

Why must everyone couch this argument in useless blather about class warfare? It's not about their Mexicanness, it's not about their sorry state of affairs at home. It's not about whether or not they have good intentions. It's about an already suffocated welfare system, border-state hospitals in financial crisis, and a border that serves as a flashing neon welcome mat to terrorists, terrorist weapons, drug runners, and slave traders.

We're supposed to be all-compassionate, all-giving, ever-welcoming and supportive, but require nothing of those we're so damn nice to. It is not too much to ask to require that if you live and work in this country, you get your name on the books. You on the left who are so enamored of the liberal, refined ways of the United Nations: pick a UN country whose immigration policy you'd like to adopt in this situation.

I could be wrong, but I'm betting you don't find one that says "Sure, come as you are, we don't need to see your credentials. Have fun, enjoy your stay."

edit:
FWIW, marichiko, i was looking at my family's history in the Civil War while I was in NC. They were mostly privates in the Confederacy, and about half were deserters. I know from white trash. And the ratio of useless white person to working Mexican is 32:1 in southern Colorado. What's your point? No restrictions for anyone, unless they're white? I'm only half kidding...that's what most rhetoric from the other side sounds like to me.

Alright, if that's the case, what are we so worried about? No one knows how many of them are here. How can we possibly know how much they're bleeding us dry for?

Sure, Latinos talk crap about "wetbacks"--it's nothing new. Some of the same folks who complain had a parent or grandparent who came over illegally. Hypocrisy exists everywhere.

forget it hobbs, they don't have illegals traipsing through their backyards so this is purely intellectual for them. now if they move down here, they might be more interested in seeing the reality of it. if i think about it i will take some pics of Bell road some morning and post it. then everyone can see the illegals standing around waiting for someone to come and illegally hire their illegal asses.

go to mexico. it is a wonderful vacation spot (many parts), and you will be putting money into their economy, maybe getting some to stay home.

FWIW back at you, my family didn't even fight in the civil war. I could not be a member of the Confedrate Daughters of America or whatever they're called. A lot of southerners deserted the ranks to go home and plow their spring crops. A lot deserted because they were worried about their families. The hardships the Civil War imposed on the South were far higher than what it imposed on the North. I once asked my Dad why our family didn't fight in the War between the States, and he looked very surprised. "We were poor people. We weren't interested in keeping slaves, and the fighting never really came near our farms, so we didn't have to worry about defending our homes." Pragmatists, they were. But this is off topic.

I made the comment I did because some folks were getting all huffy about how THEIR ancestors came here legally like this somehow made them better than more recent immigrants. 100 years ago, the US was begging for immigrants. It was no big deal to come here legally. 300 years ago Britain used the southern colonies as a dumping ground for undesirables back in the British Isles. In MY case, I was just pointing out that the fact that my ancestors coming here legally in chains did not make them better than the folks who now come here illegally to work and are forced to LEAVE in chains.

The statement I made to Wolf still stands. I do not see how we can place the full blame on the Mexican illegal worker when it is the American farmers, ranchers and businessmen who hire them under the table, knowing full well that they are illegals. You can't place the sole responsibility on the Mexican workers.

WE are a finite country, and we must accept this fact. There are only so many jobs here to go around. We would be committing suicide as a nation to just throw our southern border open to all who wanted to cross it. Mexican workers do fill a certain need in the labor market, however. They will work harder and for lower wages and benefits than most American workers are willing to work for.

We can put up a 20 foot concrete wall that runs continuously from San Diego to El Paso and gun down all illegals on sight. We will then pay a higher price for any number of agricultural products, services, etc. We can re-instate something like the old Bracero program where Mexican workers come in legally for short periods of time to do the work they do for bargain prices and then go home. We can crack down HARD on employers who use illegals. It is these employers, as much as anyone else, who are forcing the American tax payer to cover schooling, etc, for the illegals. The Mexican people want to work. That's all. We can't let all of them in, but we could stop looking at just one aspect of the problem and look to the bigger picture for solutions.

As far as the hispanic population of Southern Colorado, do you know what you're talking about?

[dripping]I'm sure that they are applying for these "special tax ID numbers" in droves. [/sarcasm]

[quote=bluecuracao]Alright, if that's the case, what are we so worried about? No one knows how many of them are here. How can we possibly know how much they're bleeding us dry for?


Because although we do not know _exactly_ how many are here, we do have a count of the ones that we _do_ know are here. You take that number, do some magical mathmatic extrapoloation, and voila` a calculation of how many of our tax dollars are going to support people who don't belong here.

The industry I work in tracks information on each of the number of children that born daily. The government collects statistical information from that data and can calculate where the larger communities of undocumented aliens are located.

The public welfare systems are taxed by the mere presence of these interlopers. Hospitals that recieve public funds by law are not allowed to turn anyone away. (I'm verifying that this is the truth, not just how I remember it during my time working for DPW in PA) That fact alone causes a massive outpouring of funds to treat people who contribute little or nothing to the system.

So yes, there are some fairly sizeable things to worry about.

The social programs have gotten out of hand.
Lately it seems the majority of my paycheck goes to feeding my family. Not just food, of course there's all of the non-edible things I have to buy weekly also. I recently gave a neighbor a ride to the grocery store so she could get $560.00 worth of food, soap, and paper products for herself and her seven kids - at no cost to her! She has a handy little plastic "Oklahoma Access card". The gov't did away with commodities and food stamps so people wouldn't feel bad being seen using them and gave them credit card looking things that also have cash available on them every month. This girl has never worked a day in her life, moves a man in ever so often, reports "father unknown" on her babies, and sits back and collects. The state even bought her a van a while back so she could go to a Vo-Tech school, which of course she never did. She eventually sold it. Will this crap ever end?
I've seen very young girls on talk shows screaming at the audience that they "have the right to stay home and raise their babies". I don't know if they even have a clue who is paying them to do this, but I don't think they really care.

The ancestors who came legally are no "better" than the new immigrants who come legally. However, both of those groups are entitled to more than the illegal immigrants of both generations. We owe our citizens lifelibertyandthepursuitofhappiness, but we don't owe anyone else's citizens dick. That said, there is an argument to be made that we should worry about our neighbors before we worry about Africa. But just managing to walk across a fence and swim a river does not make you a citizen.

Incidentally, the dictionary definition of "immigrant" is "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence", not "anyone who wants to get a seasonal job in one country and take the money home to another country, while taking advantage of the services and welfare systems of the first."


Very true. The American side of the equation must be dealt with, as well. But I'm curious....what would you say if you heard that the vast number of illegals coming across the border every year was being denied work and turned back at every doorstep they came to? I suspect that we would be considered evil and heartless, and the left would demand that "something be done," probably in the form of more tax money going to handouts.

Right. So what are you arguing about?

The only way for this to occur is for American ranchers, etc., to hire them illegally. If they are here legally, they must be paid minimum wage. They could also unionize. The left is guilty of racism on this issue. Not the "hang all [race]" racism, but "you're [race], so you're obviously not equipped to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Because of your race, we'll give you a pass." Patronizing and wrong.

So where would you personally draw the line? We can't let "all" of them in, so which ones should we allow? Which should we turn back? What is the point of cracking down on employers if you're not going to stem the supply of cheap, illegal labor? Maybe Nancy Reagan could come and tell them to Just Say No?

Intimately. At any rate, I was agreeing with you. You shouldn't argue when people are agreeing with you. I was saying that there are 32 decent hardworking Mexicans per useless militia-member white nut.

But I fell into the race trap, at any rate. My bad -- this isn't about race, as much as the left wishes it were.

Ooh. I have to call my Hispanic lawyer and make sure he got the whole $1700 for my DUI case. It almost broke me to pay him, but I'm sure his bambinos will appreciate the extra tortillas, particularly since he's in the Bahamas this week and can't support the family. :rolleyes:

Radar, I am willing to make a significant wager I, not only have more education than you, but also a better quality education than you do. While earning my education at my universities, I was always given the impression that the more education one earns, the less one would have to call others names. How's the online GED coming along, Sport?

RACE CARD ALERT!!!!!
 

As far as I can tell, there aren't 50 qualified white guys in the entire city who even want the jobs we offer (insulation, gutter and fireplace installation).[/quote]

Ahh, I knew it wouldn't take long before some doomed fool brought up skin color. We're talking about skin color here, Dear Friend. We're talking about my tax dollars paying for people who weren't born here. Congratulations, by the way. You've earned the first, of many I'm sure, Race Card Alert Notice. You've taken the short cut to thinking by using race as the issue. Tell the good Rev. Sharpton I said hello, will you?

NASA Monkeys Can Pick Fruit!!!!
 

If a NASA monkey can pilot a space craft, he can pick fruit. For all I care the damned prisoners in CA can pick the fruit all day long instead of watching television and learning new and better ways to break the law and kill each other. However, we could make them fight eachother in the attempt to make them kill each other.
Now this may just be the Gaius Caligula(3rd Emperor of Rome) blood line in me speaking, but imagine how much money we could raise by reinstating the gladiator arena in prisons. The monkeys can pick the fruit and the violent offenders can fight to the death. Brilliant!!!! I know, I know, they have rights too.
I believe Uncle Caligula said it best when he said "If all of Rome had but one throat to slit." Ahhh, Uncle Caligula.

*Ahem*

You forgot to say it's Clinton's fault. An honest oversight, I'm sure. Carry on.

It's no fair. You guys on the left get movie stars on your side, we get forum posters WITH ALL CAPS NAMES who quote Hitler in their sig file and claim descendancy from Caligula.

I think the reason you list here is not correct. It is much more likely that the government decision makers determined that it is a more efficient use of tax dollars to make these transactions electronic ones. The savings of not having to pay for printing and distribution of the stamps, including the redemption side of the equation probably were greater than the cost to run the program electronically.

Your frustration and anger may have other valid foundations. " ...so people wouldn't feel bad being seen using them... " just isn't one of them.

Shame we don't keep funny score here, I'd give you a 10 for this one. :claps:

:lol: :notworthy

It could also diminish fraud by preventing the sale of food stamps. If you sell your card, you can't use it (or sell it again) next month. But if you've got a food stamp scam going on (ie you receive but don't need them), you can sell them each month as you receive them.

:lol: A multi-million dollar monkey picking fruit? That'll be a $50,000 peach, sir. Pay in cash at the register.

You'd lose that bet buddy. Not in your wettest dream do you have either a better education, or more education. In fact, you're pretty fucking stupid, and judging from your laughable posts, you're education is below 3rd grade level.

How is it irrelevant to point out that, out of fifty field installers at my company, 45 of them are Hispanic? We hire qualified people, and very few qualified Caucasians apply.

You tell *me* why one can never mention race as a factor in any way, shape or form without being labelled racist...unless, of course, one isn't Caucasian, in which case any amount of race card playing is par for the course.

And...be careful whom you label either fool or racist, eh? I'm neither.

NIC, wow. Fruit picking chimps, closing of borders, the quoting Adolf Hilter. Pretty adventuress. Only 42 Posts and already an outspoken, brave, feared, and disliked poster.

And now to quote a very brilliant fellow Cellarite: "Now watch as we wake up this troll."

Sounds a lot like the same reasoning used in Rome. The men would go off to war with dreams of wealth and yet make squat when the war did not go right. Meanwhile Rome imported massive numbers of slaves to do the work. Those slaves were then accused of spreading disease and who knows what else. All the while those Roman troops could only be off on silly conquests because low paid slaves were being imported back home to do all the work.

Apparently you are reading much reactionary propaganda that conveniently forgets some facts; so that you will get all excited. Truth was not the purpose of those publications you are reading. If you get more excited, then they can manipulate you politically as well as sell you more of their nonsense propaganda sheets. Hype is routinely used to manipulate weak minds; which is why mental weight training is so essential to a strong America. Learn how those half-truth publication have you deceived.

Illegal immigrants are no different from the legal immigrants of years past. Just that some power brokers prefer to keep immigrants as second class residents using hype, fear, half-truths, government subsidized - corporate welfare, and immigration laws that don't address the problem. Do you also believe prohibtion of alcohol was successful? After all, prohibition, just like our immigration laws, simply creates increases in crimes (often by non-immigrants).

Did that article forget to mention all the unfair trading practices to enrich US Sugar? Did it mention how US Sugar then needs those immigrants to be illegal so as to keep their costs down? Why did those articles forget to mention that part?

Here's the thing:

My best friend's fiancee, from Croatia, had to pay money and have no less than 12 documents, two of which were from me, promising support and vouching for him while he was here.

He came to America and received a 6 month tourist Visa.

As Radar can attest, getting a person into the United States legally is expensive, time consuming, and red-tape deluged.

If Hrvoje works right now, he will be immediately deported. The government will not give him a green card, making him a "legal" and eligible to work. And personally, if someone willing to work after jumping through all those hoops to get here can't, then I don't think illegals should either.

Which sounds like something from the department of redundancy department, I know, and I'm not articulating this correctly, (I'm at work and rushed and my chain of thought is broken by dumb custo"moo"rs)... but it's not right that we let the illegasl stay and get special tax numbers and go to school and such when other people who are trying to be law abiding people can't even get here.

It really makes me mad.

Get Hrvoje married here on his tourist visa and pay more money to apply to live in US as a couple (its at least $250 and more papers). With temp residence status he can start working right now, wait a few years, go through the proof of bonafide marriage review, pay more then get the coveted green card. That is unless this is a same sex couple. Then youre outta luck.


PS Its a lot easier to enter the US when they dont think you are coming here to marry. And its still the tourist visa. So reveal the fiance part at your own risk. That can add 3 or more months to the wait and require that proof of support.

they can't get married until her divorce is final (it's been languishing for 3 years now in an arizona court, and there is nothing she can do to move it along, because she signed papers while she was in croatia. she can file for a NC divorce once she becomes a resident, in november. hrvoje has to leave in dec unless they get him an extension.)

the good news is that she had the baby (named him after me!!) and he is the father on the birth certificate, so since he is the immediate parent of the child, he is going to apply for a working visa and then citizenship.

but my point was how freaking hard it was to get him here, and illegals pour across the border and get medical and welfare and school and all kinds of crap, whereas while he is here, *I* can't even get that stuff, and if I even apply, he gets deported.

still mad. :mad:

He's here, he should apply for the temp residence/work visa ASAP, yesterday. If he has to leave it will be months to get back in legally, even if married.

I think you maybe romanticizing the amount of perks, the "all kinds of crap" garnered by illegal immigrants. I belive they also risk deportation as illegals, its just less of a hike, so it's less of a hassle I suppose. Also, there's the messy business of kids caught in it.

As for "get medical"...I dont think your fella would be turned away from the emergency room, either. And if he was 8, I bet he could get a seat in the local public school, at least for a while. if he had his shots.

If it :violin: 's really that bad, I think troops could go to their CO & tell them they are queer, insane, etc..... and get a discharge. If you can't handle being a soldier, I suggest you get your ass out. There are too many "real" troops dying to take your place........ so there.

It strikes me as odd that someone who is occupying a foreign country is complaining about illegal immigrants. Sorry, I'm weird that way.

get a life and quit whining already.
and what the hell is a DOOMED fool........ can you share THAT with me? :eyebrow:

[quote=mrnoodle] But just managing to walk across a fence and swim a river does not make you a citizen.[?QUOTE]

Never said it did, and I don't think anyone else here claimed that either.
Don't quit your day job just yet, Sherlock. As a card carrying member of the ACLU, here's how'd I respond: I'd demand that All US residents go down and have genetic testing to prove the amount of Native American blood flowing in their veins. Those with less than 50% I would demand be deported at once across the border into Mexico to make their way back to Europe or Africa or Juarez as best they could. I would then demand that Cherokee and Navajo be made the official languages of the country. Any white boy who protested against this would be required to learn the Ghost Dance and the Blessing Way and the Navajo Night Way, as well as memorize the complete text of Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. That should put the damned illegal immigrants in their place!

Hint: Well, you could go back and read through this thread. Just a stray thought from my frenzied liberal brain...

Damn, Noodle, you've got to stop getting all your information from folks like NICOTINE GUN and Zap Comix. Since when is it racist to suggest that perhaps American employers should be required to follow US law? Yeah, poor Americans. They're too stupid to ask a potential employee for a social security number of a green card. After all, they ARE products of the US school system and American talk radio. We can't ask the impossible of them.




Excellent idea!

American Employer: "Gotta green card?"
Illegal Immigrant/Wetback: **shrugs shoulders and presents would-be employer with an old ticket to a soccer game held last year in Chihuahua**
American Employer: NO job for YOU!

Great! Then you know all about Forbes Trinchera, land grants made by the Spanish Crown and the stand off that occurred just over the Colorado border near Chama, New Mexico some years back. What were you agreeing with me about, by the way?

Tisk, tisk. That'll learn you. We on the left adore the race trap. Walk in beauty, white boy! (If you can still walk after getting out of the briar patch you just threw yourself into)

What? You hired some cut rate spic lawyer from the Bahamas who doesn't even have a green card? You must have been drunk! :lol:

Thanks, Radar
 

Ahhh, Radar. I remember when I used to rant and rave like that. It's funny you mentioned third grade because that is when I spoke like you do now. Ahh, youth truly is wasted on the young. Thank you, Radar. You make me remember why I want to be a better person. You run off now and hit the books, Little Trooper. Maybe we can work on penmanship tomorrow.

Cut the useless insults, guys. It only proves we need more illegal immigrants and should start deporting American citizens.

Doomed Fool: person destined to live a life of agony and mental anguish due to ignorance and failure to take the long road to thinking.

LOL

To the Ooh Oohs
 

I realize you can't read fast, but I'm beginning to realize you can't think fast. Are you serious with your last little blurb. Did you read what I wrote? I never said I couldn't handle being a soldier. I've done things you only read about. My point was that it sucks being here doing what we do, meanwhile our own nation is being invaded. Take the spoon out of your mouth, spit out the garbage, feed yourself. You people are really starting to amaze me. It's like you pick one phrase from the paragraph and focus on it.
"Oooh, he said something with soldier in Iraq in it! He should just quit or say he is queer..ooooh, ooooh, let me write this down!"

"Oooh, Oooh, his signature is a quote from Hitler, he must be a Nazi, ooh, ooh."

Greetings infidel invader,


Perhaps you can show what a tough guy you are by breaking a nice little old misunderstood tyrant out of US confinement.

Or where you talking about something else, like fucking a spider monkey in the ass?

hey new guy: quit being a dick.

Bukkake: Japanese tradition of ejaculating on the face of woman who has been unloyal to her husband. Each of the town's men were provided the opportunity to ejaculate on the face of the man's wife who cheated on him. Sicko!!!!!!!!!

Or where you talking about something else, like fucking a spider monkey in the ass?[/quote]

No, Saddam. I never touched your mother.