Hip-hop
 

I just don't get it. I'm very open-minded music-wise, and I think I'm pretty open-minded culturally, too, but I just can't understand hip-hop culture. To me, it seems to be based around tough-guy bravado, an inclination to 'dis' just about everyone, repetetive beats with little creativity, a lack of skill (granted, there are some great hip-hop groups that I like a lot - De La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest are the only two that come to mind), and misogynistic proclivities. Oh, yeah, and a lot of gratuitous swearing and violence. What's so cool about that? Now I see it in J.C.Penny commercials! There were these kids, couldn't have been more than ten years old, striking that arms-crossed-in-defiance pose and flinging their hands at the camera in that "I'm gonna bitch-slap you, foo'" kind of way! I'm sure teachers just love this kind of show of arrogance and mean attitude.

What the hell is so attractive about this shit?!

Am I too old to understand? I didn't understand it when I was younger. Am I just too Wonder Bread to get it?!

Once again--I turn to my son.

He hates hip-hop. Quote: "It sounds horrible. They're all poseurs. They make kids my age think they're living the hard life when they are spoiled brats. They try to make kids think that they're all gangsta's when they're all living with their moms!"

For myself--I cannot comment. I ignore hip-hop, rap and most misogynist-based utterings, esp. if they are from young, white males.

The vast majority of ANY genre is crap, and what the genre is based around has not a thing to do with it.

I used to be into grunge and alternative music. Then I realised that most of it sucks. Now I'm into "music that doesn't suck" (genre be damned), and I think I'm better for it. I'll listen to any genre, but I won't abide crap. :)

I agree with Perth. I don't like a lot of hip-hop, but there are some great artists out there...among them:

--The two groups you already mentioned
--Mos Def
--Talib Kweli
--Black Star (the group consists of the above 2)
--OutKast
--Beastie Boys
--Del the Funky Homosapien (in whatever project he's in)
--Common
--Jurassic5

It seems to go beyond the music, though, doesn't it? I mean, it's pervasive! Everywhere you turn, it's hip-hop. McDonald's commercials, movies, etc.

So.... why is it everywhere? Is there some value in it that I'm missing?!

Because the kids in the suburbs dig it...just like they dug grunge in 1992. And where the suburban kids go, the advertisers follow.

Black people are starting to be fiscally attractive.

period.


Yo.

Yo, peep this, nigga!

I think that's definitely part of the equation, but there are way more white folks than black folks in this country. Perhaps I should have phrased my previous post as follows:

"Primarily because the white kids in the suburbs dig it..."

Why would we have a hip hop thread under entertainment?

:lol:

You have a very unusual and perceptive child.

Good job there, mom.

:blush: Thanks! He is a pretty good one. I'm lucky.

My question is, did he pronounce poseurs as "POSE-ers" or "po-ZHURES?" :)

I just want to know why it is all attitude, all offense, all "fuck you, fuck them, fuck the bitches, fuck the cops, I'm gonna take whatever I want so you better stay out of my way"...and why this is found to be even remotely socially acceptable.

If I'm going to have to tolerate this gangsta rap shit as some sort of valid sociological expression, then society is going to have to tolerate me walking around with a 9MM on my hip as a valid sociological protective response.

Gag. Puke.

It is.

And it's even legal in your jurisdiction.

I'm not as sure about your comment regarding gangsta rap, though.

Keep in mind that a) Rock can have lyrics that are just as fucked up as gangsta rap and b) Not all hip-hop is gangsta rap.

Anon.,

I hear ya. I cannot figure out the attraction. Bill Cosby has been ranting about this for about a year or two, and he's got even more insight than I do. When did it become cool to have a felony rap sheet at 13, or to think it was cool that someone else did?

The saddest thing I have seen in the last five years is a skinny white kid with his Von Dutch Tee-shirt and Eddie Bauer jeans walking around with a cap turned at some retarded angle on his head. Pa-freakin'-thetic. I never liked Nirvana, but I could almost see the identification between spoiled suburban kids and their angst. But this whole rap nonsense is just toooo out there. I went through several musical phases before settling in the one I am now (I am a major Phishhead), but I can't listen to that rap turd at all. I guess because I have no reason to hate cops or ho's???

Hip-hop itself is just boring- If Mickey Dee's and such are putting this type of music in their ads, I am certainly not going to be influenced, because a Phishhead who hates McDonalds and doesn't buy a gajillion dollars worth of American Eagle garbage each year isn't quite their target market. Plus I don't consider a basketball player with a felony record to be a role model, so their ad dollars are wasted on me.

Sycamore- Rock music can to some degree have lyrics that are "just as fucked up", but the entire genre is not based on the precepts of beating bitches, shooting pigs, fukkin ho's, and generally putting caps in the asses of anyone without the same shitass attitude as yours, whereas rap is... it is sad to see a whole generation throwing their future down the toilet because of this gangsta nonsense.

I had one of those stupid little whiggers in my exam room a couple months ago.

He was dissin' and dattin' and shizzlin' and whatever the hell else it is they say rather than speaking English (his parents had complained about this, incidentally) ...

I looked him straight in the eye (not easy, with him wearing his baseball cap like that), and said, "Kid, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'm going to be as straightforward as possible ... YOU'RE WHITE AND YOU'RE FROM THE WEALTHIEST SUBURB IN THIS COUNTY. Sit up straight, get your feet off the furniture and on the floor where they belong, talk normal, and at least the next couple hours will go a hell of a lot better for you."

I'll be damned ... it worked.

The (African) doctor walked in to see him and he did not even make any attempt to call him "My brutha."

Syc, I will admit to finding value in some rap and hip hop, particularly when it is positive, and executed in a musical manner. I find Black Eyed Peas "Where is the Love" to be an elevating piece of music. I love several numbers from Outkast's last album, because the brothers have a real sense of musicality about them, and not just drums and bass and samples and loops.

I'm not a musical tight ass...I just see no reason for people to sell attitude as a product. It gets kids killed. Hell, it gets the "artists" killed.

I'm no racist, either. I just see BS for BS, and am unwilling to attach some social validity to inherently antisocial behaviors and communications. Sly Stone was one fucked up dude, and he ruined his life and wasted his talent, but he made some of the most positive, uplifting and just plain damn *funky* music of the past fifty years. I just played a bunch of Sly and the Family Stone last night, cranked loud, marvelling at what a genius the son of a bitch is. If these other flavas of 'da day are so damn talented, let's see them do something good with their music and words. Let them unite in cooperation instead of divide in threat and bluster.

Hip-hop has always been more than the gangsta rap subgenre, Guyute...hip-hop had already been around for almost 20 years when BDP came out with "Criminal Minded." Unfortunately, gangsta rap has been the dominant subgenre of hip-hop for some time...nowhere near what it was in the mid-90s, but still dominant.

Bill Cosby, while making some good points over the past year, needs to get his own house in order before pointing his finger at others any further, IMO.

Ep, if attitude weren't sold, we would have never had punk music...or rock n' roll for that matter. I don't know about you, but I'm glad we have both. I'm not saying it's good to sell it all the time, but sometimes, it's a damned good thing. And it seems like you're painting the entire genre with the same brush (as are other folks in this thread). Would you expect all of the rock genre to unite in cooperation? And would you really want all those artists to do so?

This is my view on hip hop. In terms of rap, while much of it is just commercial sugar-coated lyrics, i do have to recognize some of the artists talent. The most impressive type of lyricism that, in my opinion, is tops every type of music is freestyle. On albums, it could take artists years and years to make one album, which might not be any good. Freestylers, it must take them a split second to come up with lyrics. Yes, the lyrics may be inaccurate, yes anyone can rhyme see with me with pee with bleed, but in most cases, their lyrics are more intricate than that. and they go on for 5 minutes, which even with simple rhymes most people can't do. In my opinion, I love rap.

Thank you crossfire. The freestyle sounds cool. Ok, cite, please?



Edit: for clarity, at HM's request

Who are you asking for a cite?

I think this is what you mean,

go to this site

http://ohhla.com/anonymous/swaytech/...anibus.swy.txt

I was not a big fan of any rock songs which extolled the virtues of killing, either.

I thought I distinguished between what I thought was good rap/hip hop and what wasn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't gangsta rap outsell the more easy going stuff by about a million to one?

I am in no way suggesting that there should be a ban or other restriction on the offensive stuff. I'm just saying that it sucks, and it would be good for those with the ability to do so to put their talents to more uplifting uses once in awhile. I don't see most rap purveyors and commenting on a social condition or satirizing a laughable segment of society. I see them as promoting the very sociological outrages that they "sing" about. The comparison to Punk is apt on one hand, and sort of misdirected on the other. While I see people doing stupid gangsta stuff everyday, the Anarchy movement never really got going...

I view hip-hop as a respectable outlet for people who actually rap about worthwhile things like growing up in a hard life, the ghetto, experiences they've been through, love, life, etc. When they start spewing this crap about money hoes diamonds and cars, it just annoys me because its pointless.

FYI I don't listen to rap, just not my thing. But I do respect the talent some of them have.

crossfire--that's exactly what I was talking about. Thanks. It was cool, I'd like to hear it (and others performed). For the record, I, too, find very little redeeming entertainment value in performances that are saturated with killing and fucking and bitch this and ho that.

Click.

Next!

I love "Cop Killer" by Body Count...too bad such a stink was raised about it. On the bright side, pressings of their debut CD with that song on it fetch big bucks.

It seemed to me like you were still lumping all hip-hop artists together. My apologies if I was mistaken.

The more I think about it, gangsta rap really isn't what it used to be anymore. You still have folks bragging about their money and women and killing and shit, but a lot of that died after the Tupac and Biggie murders. And it's probably not the biggest selling subgenre anymore, either. But a lot of hip-hop is hard to classify these days: Jay-Z is no school boy, but he wants radio to play his shit. Same with DMX. (I happen to like both artists, though not as much as those I previously mentioned.) Jay-Z sells a shitload of CDs...DMX does too, though nowhere near as many as Jigga. And then there's Eminem...the guy is nuts, but he clearly tells you that it's an act...and you definitely can't call him a gangsta rapper.

Anarchy is too scary for most folks, but a lot of them like hearing about other bad things...look at the obsession with the Mafia here in the States.

And I have to bring the comparison to rock n' roll back in...the proportion of hip-hop artists putting themselves to "good use" is probably comparable to the proportion of rock artists. Hell, even I laugh at folks like Bono.

Hip-hop gets bundled in with (c)rap. Yeah...alot of it can suck, and can be abrasive.
But there is something to be said about the DJ work...lyric work of the rappers, etc.

Not to thread jack...what about all the angst-metal? That sounds terrible to me... (opens door for flames to pour in)

I can't stand a lot of the newer stuff. I loved grunge when it first came out...then everyone tried to do it...and still tries to.

Emo-rock gets on my nerves too...and I'm almost irritated with Weezer, except that Rivers Cuomo is a great songwriter and lyricist.

"We Are All on Drugs" has to be the stupidest song Weezer has ever done though.

Well, they have been on a big "Let's make songs about drugs" kick since the Green Album.

The new disc is good...better than the last one. If it were some no-name group, I might cast it aside, though.

WTF?!?! Aryan Rap?!?!? wow. Now I am so confused.

I, too, am not down with the whole culture of celebrities as self-important purveyors of humanitarianism. On the other hand, I don't often hear Bono glorifying killing or other antisocial acts in his music.

I'm glad that people who have got something to share do so. Plus, I'm automatically cynical of anyone who is obviously out shilling crap because people are stupid enough to buy into it, for whatever perceived reason.

Aryan rap by a half-Turk, i.e., non-Aryan.

That's the irony.

There's actually an entire genre of white-power music, much of it metal or speed metal. Some of it can even be listened to more than once.

Agreed. And thanks for the clarification. I saw irony other than that.

Irony is in the eye of the beholder, or is that some of that sleepy-crusty stuff ... whatever.

If you find additional absurdities, please feel free to point them out!

Yeah, but that overly pious/self-righteous shit is just as irritating to me. You ever seen that episode of South Park involving Getting Gay With Kids? Or the movie "Team America World Police?" :)

TAWP is on my list of DVDs to rent with my unlimited-number-of-monthly-rentals-as-long-as-it is-only-three-at-a-time deal with Hollywood Video. This program is the DVD rippers bee's knees.

The only South Park gay themed episode that comes to mind is Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boatride.

Getting Gay With Kids was actually the environmentally themed episode.

Everybody goes down to Costa Rica with the Getting Gay with Kids Singing Group, they get lost in the jungle after their guide gets eaten by a crocodile or somesuch, and Cartman saves the day.

OMG my life is an homage to a parody! Sorry just had to use homage because it sounds *cough* poetic. No children were got gay with in the making of this family vacation.

Let me Holla,
Peep dis, Ya. Basically, it comes down to what sells and what is fun. Many of the "gangsta rappas" have indeed come from meak beginnings and have seen first hand what it is like to live life in the street. What they learn there is the only person that will take care of you is you. Think of how attractive a philosophy that must be to a young person. "I don't need anyone but me. So F*&K the World Don't Ask me for Shit" to coin the phrase I belive was made so popular by Mr. Biggie Smalls or was it Tu Pac?
Personally, I do not see the merit in most hip hop. Most of it sounds exactly like the rest, and in most cases it is-"I got money, I'm a bad Mo Fo, I gots Hos, and I slap skins and I did it my way." Kids love it and somehow it makes money.
If you really want to place the blame on it's popularity, take a look at the parents who allow their children to purchase the CDs, listen to the music, and dress the way they do. But remember, just because they look the part, doesn't mean they play it, Mr. Mouse. People often think I am a stuck up super model,rich type with no tolerance for normal people, but they often realize I am just a human.

Outty, Kid!

There is a lot of it actually. There is skinhead, NSBM (National Socialist Black Metal). Then Neo-Folk, Aryan, all sorts.

I can't get into rap or hip-hop or any of that. Only if I'm incredibly stoned (which I don't do anymore). Of course this is coming from a guy who beats off while listening to old Emperor or Enthroned :blush:

You want hip-hop? I got your hip-hop right here.