Tell me everything you know about Colorado Springs
 

As the title says.

ready?

Go!

Ten hut! :ipray:

Lon Chaney, the actor is from there.
And doing a google search on "Colorado springs strange", "dangerous", or "obscure"
won't tell you anything interesting...

<A HREF="http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=colorado+springs&type=2">Googlism</A> says:

6,035 feet above sea level. (exersion may induce vomiting)

My cousin has lived there for the better part of 20 years. She was an instructor at the Air Force Academy until retiring a few years ago. She loves it there.

We might be moving. More details as I know more details, but from anyone who has lived there, or spent time there, how drastic a culture shock are we talking here? Is it on par with from LA to Portland, or on par with NYC to Opalika, Alabama?

I live in the Springs. It's a love/hate thing. I like the North side of town, especially the NW side. Focus on the Family is based here, and you can tell. There's a lot to do in this town, everyone will find something they like.

Love:
Proximity to the mountains
Garden of the Gods
My neighbourhood
A couple of the bars downtown. I'm especially fond of Southside Johnny's

Hate:
Focus on the Family
Almost everything South of say, Cimarron St.

I guess I always thought of LA as a liberal town (is that accurate?). The Springs is very conservative, which may or may not appeal to you. But the area is beautiful, and escape from civilisation is only about an hour West. I would be happy to try to answer any specific questions you may have.

Compared to LA, it's sleepy, backwards and rural. The Californian equivalent would be Sacramento, only with snowcapped peaks. Oh, and NORAD. You can rest easy at night knowing that you are in the shadow of the world's most expensive Santa-tracker, now that there's no USSR.

There are, however, some really talented musicians that call Colorado home (and I'm talking about real ones, not just metal noodlers like me), but the scene is really horrific. People here don't care about original music in the slightest, or at least not enough to make it financially viable. The independent music movement starved itself out in this part of the country, and as a result you're lucky to have 100 people at any venue unless you're a national act. Speaking of that, John Mayer came to town a few years ago, before he hit it really big and there were about 20 people in the place. That was Ft. Fun though, not the Springs.

Corporate musicians do well, as there are any number of Silicon-Valley-type companies that have really stellar parties and pay well. Otherwise, you're looking at a day job and only weekend gigs in "intimate settings" for live music.

It's really not as bleak as it looks upon first read, though. Denver's an hour north at most, and they have some great jazz and blues clubs, as well as a pretty cool world-music subculture. Bela Fleck and Vic Wooten and Hal Ketchum and Nickel Creek and any number of other roots/bluegrass-influenced people play here a bunch, too. There are also scads of "fests" at the ski towns for any musical palate. You just have to be willing to drive around to find the stuff you want to listen to/play, and don't expect the size of the crowd to reflect the coolness of the music.

More plusses: people are getting jobs around here again, we're about to come out of the drought (weather-type) that's been plaguing us for 5 years, and if there's a prettier place in the world, I don't know what it is.

Oh, and bring guns. Shall-issue concealed carry state :D

here's the deal.

There's a church in CO Springs, Woodmen Valley Chapel, that's asked me to look at moving out there to head up their worship arts program. It would be a fairly cool mix of alot of the things that are important to me, but the driving question for me is this:

I know how to build a community of artists in a place like LA. Every spiritual community we've been a part of has been deeply tied to innovative artists who are daring, complex, and vibrant in their work.

What's the artistic community like in a place like the springs? I'm not talking about in the church, I'm talking in general. Are there groups of people doing interesting and creative things? Does the culture in general value innovate work? Or am I going to be eternally frustrated by trying to foster community among people who are nothing like me?

-sm

Not much creative comes out of the springs, IME. I lived there for 2 years or so, and it felt like a wasteland...especially for someone who has a passion for many genres of art. The lack of water for so long in the Springs keeps the neighborhoods from looking pretty and green. It is rare to have a house that actually has a yard. But compared to LA, the cost of real estate is dirt cheap, so maybe you can use the savings to creat your own little oasis in Colorado. Now, Manitou is another story. It's like the Anti-springs. Beautiful place with lots of fun little shops and events going on. Problem is, a lot of christians from the springs think manitou is a "mecca for satanists" (meaning, not christian...I know, ridiculous generalization, but if you lived in the springs you would hear that a lot). My impression was that C Springs is an extremely narrow minded town with a sort of angsty population with "god on their side". Although, it can be a bit exciting...my friend and I witnessed a fight (about 30 guys all trying to beat each other senseless) in a Waffle House at about 3 in the morning. I guess if you live there, those things are about as exciting as it gets. On the upside...if you can get past all the social issues in that city, there are about a million christian churches there, if that is where your occupation lies.

I am thinking Colorado Springs is like rotten Calliflower to L.A. being an ice cream sundae with hot fudge and a cherry on top...the calliflower is nasty, no matter how you prepare it or how little you eat. The sundae tastes good, sounds good and looks good, but if you become too intimate with it, you will find yourself sick. Maybe I shouldn't compare them, though...I have never lived in LA...only visited.

Sorry to be such a downer on the springs...there are a couple of things I really like about it, for instance, my son and my good friend, perth live there, but other than that, I don't like the place too much.

A place like Boulder or Denver is going to have a lot more art. If you like independent radio, check out radio1190.com. It is put on by CU Boulder and they play *nothing* that isn't indie.

the short answer is, there's a vibrant arts community if you know where to look. again, things are spaced differently geographically, so your circle of "local" artistic friends might live anywhere from Taos to Cheyenne. Naturally, Southwestern/Native American art is king, but it's not all blankets and dreamcatchers these days. (currently the Colorado Springs Fine Arts Center has a Dale Chihuly exhibition, and he represents modern Native American-inspired visual artistry as well as anyone). Unfortunately, there's a strong Precious Moments/Thomas Kincaide vibe as well, but that's mostly in the touristy parts.

But yeah, the coffeehouse bulletin boards are chock full of events celebrating art and culture. You have to head downtown, away from the Applebees and Cinemark Theaters, but you can find em, and I don't think you'll be disappointed.

edit: case clicked submit before me. I have to say she probably knows more about it than me, since I haven't spent too much time down there recently.

I know there's an artist's guild in town; my aunt is a member. I'll try to remember to ask her about it. There is art in this town, it's just not quite as prevalent as some other towns. There's a couple colleges, and it seems to me that "artsy" culture tends to congregate in those areas. I think the fact that art is subdued (not suppressed), is probably more because it's a military town than a religious town. It's there, you just have to look. You could do a lot worse.

My gut instinct when people ask about the town is to bash it, much like Case. But in all honesty, it's really a great town. Not my first choice, but it's probably in my top ten, if not top five.

Eh, sorry to have been so harsh about the springs. I suppose the sour taste I was left with had a lot to do with some of the experiences I had in the corporate world, there and the few bad experiences I had elsewhere in the springs. I still don't feel that art is very important to that community in general, but I suppose if you go out looking for it, you will find something. After all, I found a great band there, whose CD I still cannot locate after 2 moves. They are called Eyes Caught Fire, and the show in which I first heard them was amazing.

L.A. being an ice cream sundae Oh my insert word of your choice.

SM, when do you have to give them an answer on the job? I'd make sure you did plenty of research on what the salary vs. cost-of-living was in real world dollars. :)

I've never been to CS and have spent only minimal time in Colorado (and all of it in the wilderness) but I have a friend who throughout his childhood spent alternating years in Colorado Springs and Austin. He said he preferred Colorado Springs ever so slightly.

it's a long process. I've got several phone interveiws over the next few weeks, then I'm going to fly out in July for a week, and if that goes well, they'll fly my wife and I back out again in August. It would be september at the earliest.

It's a pretty massive position, so they want to move slowly to make sure I'm the right guy for them, and we want to move slowly to make sure that it's the right fit for us.

You're from Ellay. And from the music business. How are you going to convince them you aren't the Spawn of Satan?

From a strictly multiple-times tourist standpoint, I *love* CS. It is, in fact, my favorite place in Colorado.

I have a friend who lived there for several years, and he found it to be amenable.

So, SM, you're giving up the session/touring musician thing? Or will you still be able to grab gigs from a base so far removed from LA?

Also, Mr. Noodle...are you in The Springs? If so, then can we count on some musical collaborations between you and SM in the future? That'd be way cool, dudes. :devil:

Here's the deal - I live 5 minutes from every major recording studio, but I do 90% of my work here at the house, in my own little home studio. We're talking major label recordings, movie tracks, commericials, all kinds of stuff. They send me files, I do keys, and send them back. It's the way of the industry now, and the reason why the major recording studios are folding.

The upside is that I can move to someplace like Colorado Springs, buy a 4,000 sware foot custom home, build out a full studio in the basement (they have basements there!) and still do that work. And for touring, it doesn't matter at all. They'll fly you to where they want you.

But the truth is that this new thing seems much more interesting to me. It's been a long time since I've been thrilled by anything in the industry, and the idea of a huge church that wants to make a serious investment in building and sustaining a creative culture is exciting to me.

Also, lets be honest. The idea of a 4,000 square foot custom home on 2 acres is also pretty exciting to me.

You mean "The idea of a 4,000 square foot custom home on 2 acres that costs 1/3 of what it would in LA is also pretty exciting to me."

Get your baby out of LA brother. This sounds like a great opportunity as long as you don't disappear because you're out of sight.

And it sounds like the creative community can use your participation. Good luck with it!

Do you feel that you have the gift this church needs to create moments where God’s presence is felt through leading worship, transforming worship ministries, developing dynamic leaders, and restoring the spiritual passion of all involved in worship and the arts? Do you feel the gifts you have to offer are of a technical nature or the ability to give spirtual sheparding to those who are involved with the worship ministries who feel they have a calling to lead or use their gifts as passionately as you do. What comes first, the passion to lead God's people or to build the recording studio in your basement? What are your priorities?

I dunno. I don't feel like I know much yet about the church, apart from the public presentation. I haven't met the people in the church, I haven't met the people in the broader community. That's the main thrust of my question here, what sort of cultural and artistic values does this broader community hold, how well does the church represent those values, and do I fit with that. It'll help to be back there, meet people, get the sense of the community. If the cultures don't fit, all the desire and motivation in the world are going to lead to frustration and misdirected energy.

Shouldn't it be both? Seriously, this is one of my hang-ups about how churches go about staffing ministry positions. They staff people in positions that demand a high level of technical competence (both artistically and organizationally) on the basis of their personality, or their "pastoral" qualities, and the program sinks to match the level of their technical competency. A person can have a great heart for sheparding other people, but it has to be coupled with abilities, competency, particularly in artistic programs. Nothing frustrates creative people more, or dampens their enthusiasm for ministry quicker, than being led by someone that doesn't approach the arts ministries as an artist.


If industry work were still my driving passion, I wouldn't even be thinking about the move. This is part of an evolving change of values for my wife and I. I'll probably always be involved in session work and playing for artists, if for no other reason than because it keeps me plugged into a community that makes me a more complete person, and a better artist. But to think that I would move 2,000 miles away from LA in order to spend more time on my music career? That seems like a bad move.

Mojo, I can't help but feel like I'm somehow being vetted by someone on the search committee ... is that the case?

-sm

He is with you, always.

Nope not on the search committee, just someone who has been involved in worship ministries over the last 16 years in several churches. I've been pastored by the best, hurt when they were no longer politically correct, asked to leave by self-centered, power mongers. I've seen when churches hurt those who give so much to 'their family' by dismissing their ministry and the heart they have for the Lord and the worship ministry of the church. The leader is first and foremost - oh yeah we can add singers and instrumentalists.

So how would you step into a church and promote and help their ministry? What if it is an established Worship and Arts ministry with contacts with the Christian music industry, local artists, drama and dance?

I believe that a good leader can shepard those who give their heart to the Lord in voice, instruments, drama, dance, etc. They should also be good technically and hopefully have a sound theological background (hopefully a degree both in music and attended a seminary).

There is only 1 person in the audience when we worship and the congregation needs to understand that and the spirit of that worship should be directed to our Lord. It's easy to be in the congregation and listen to great music but it should be the goal of the Worship Leader to transform those bodies in the pew to lean mean worshipping machines for our Lord.

Churches have problems today with the the different age groups and their 'heart' music. Music that allows a Boomer to worship with all their heart may not be the same music that allows that Gen-Xer to worship. How does one pull all the age groups together and have them appreciate each other, understand their worship . Many churches have split over these groups not understanding each other and wanting "their way of worship".

This thread suddenly got a lot more interesting...good questions, Mojo. Heck, I perform leadership duties in my own spiritual community, and I wouldn't have thought to ask these particular questions...

Do continue! :corn:

With a little spare time, one can find a few interesting sites on Colorado Springs (although not an exhaustive search...have fun:

http://users.saferinternet.com/wilde...0Gods%2004.JPG

http://www.worshiplanet.com
http://www.integritymusic.com/worship/parsley/0703.html
http://www.terrymacalmon.com
http://www.dannyoertli.com
http://www.matthewward.com
http://www.flyingw.com/wrangler.htm
http://christianmusic.com/nicholenordeman/bio.html
http://www.newlifechurch.org
http://www.woodmenvalley.org
http://www.first-pres.org
http://www.v7pc.org
http://www.gatheringatjc.org
http://www.rmcalvary.org
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4287106
http://www.ibs.org/csm/MAP.PDF
http://www.wwcmagazine.org/2003/novdec035.html
http://csthenet.gospelcom.net/cgi-cs...henet/HomePage
http://www.fotf.org

Of course there is that well known Evangelical Christian university -
The United States Air Force Academy ....:-)

The Flying W is a blast!

Springs: Gorgeous scenery, mostly conservative people, "big town" but not "big city", decent prices on land but high cost of living (welcome to Colorado), close to tons of stuff: Denver/bigger city, anything outdoors you like except an ocean.

I like the Springs and have some family that lives there, but you'll find it's nothing like LA or California in general. Coloradians are more "western-like", not as cultured but with an appreciation for beautiful things. The state is also experiencing a stupidly huge growth in population from, hey! California and all the problems that brings. It's good/bad because it's changing the economy, feel, and culture of just about everything.

I'd say get used to driving. The traffic isn't great (still nowhere near as bad as CA) but you have to drive LONG distances to get to what you like doing. The mountain towns/resorts do have great festivals for the musically inclined and a few trips there and you'll never want to leave.

Eh, my .02

Found a great article which touches on the same issues I raised earlier by Tom McDonald, the National Director of Music and Commissioner on Church Worship for the Assemblies of God.

Bridging Generations In Worship

http://music.ag.org/resources/forte_smpl_bridging.cfm

"Our dilemma
How to minister to multiple generations in worship is a serious dilemma. Never before in church history have we had four generations present in one service: builders (G.I. generation, silent generation, war babies), boomers, busters (Gen X), and bridgers (Gen Y, millennials). The dilemma unravels further when we consider divergent musical tastes of the older and younger generations."
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" But many well-intentioned pastors and worship leaders make changes too fast after being elected. Conversely, long-timers who have not changed their approach to corporate worship in a decade suffer from the same sword. Either extreme is problematic.

This quick-fix approach to the worship life of a church, without bringing the congregation along philosophically, asks for difficulty. Lack of communication about changing worship leaves parishioners with the unfortunate choice of interpreting the pastor’s ideas without context. Worship is a personal journey into the presence of the Lord. Long-term church members travel a road well-worn and trusted. By changing the style of the transportation midstream, the cart often gets in front of the horse. Frustrated, the faithful exit the worship encounter without connecting to God. "
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" Further, quantum leaps in worship style for reasons related to visitor friendliness tend to alienate the church’s base. This also leaves the wistful pastor in a tentative position, now relying on new members and the foggy commitment of visitors to hold the bag for the budget."

WTF?

Obviously I digressed...sorry. Back to the subject at hand, SM might be getting ready to go or has already been:

http://www.csfineartscenter.org/
http://www.blackroseacoustic.org/index.htm
http://www.daveblackphotography.com/...-road/0504.htm
http://artwebsite.org/
http://www.csindy.com/csindy/current/list_art.html
http://www.csindy.com/csindy/current/music_toc.html
http://www.coloradolinks.net/Colorad...anizations.htm
http://www.christianhappenings.com/?state=CO
http://www.seminars4worship.com/temp...ID=&CID=170838
http://www.hcjb.org/

eh, that's enough...good luck SM.