My trip to the gay bar. The reason why I have homophobic tendencies.
 

San Francisco is known for its hilly cityscapes, destructive earthquakes, Detective Harry Callahan, and the Grateful Dead, among many other very popular people places and things. But the thing that is exclusively unique to this great city is its unusually high concentration of gay residents in fact San Francisco is arguably the gay capitol of the world.

But further south down the coast of California, Just outside of La, there is Orange county, perhaps the rainbow flag waving rival to San Francisco's global homo-distinction.

I spent several years living and working in Orange county which acclimated me to living around and observing gay lifestyle. My observations helped form an early acceptance of people living alternative lifestyles. I considered myself quite hep and felt I had developed a nearly flawless gaydar, that is until I was asked out and accepted a date from a gay man.


Bob, a coworker, invited me out for a drink one Friday night after work. I was only eighteen but a friend of mine and also a coworker, lent me his ID. I had been to bars before but being only eighteen I had not yet made the rounds that one in his early twenties does, So I was unaware of what bars were cool, dangerous, boring etc. I was depending on the older more experienced Bob to choose the establishment.


He chose a bar called the Flame Room(I shit you not) which was located at a former K-mart store in Huntington Beach.

In a big Gay Metropolitan area what better place for a big gay bar than a former K-mart store?

And there could have been no better name this establishment could have chose, The Flame room indeed.

You may be thinking: hell, anyone with a 5th grade education would be able to determine a bar called the flame room was most likely a gay bar. Well, I don't have a defense for that statement other than I never suspected Bob was gay, I was excited about all the "older" women I would be encountering, and I wanted to get shitfaced hammered really bad.

My goal upon entering this extremely crowded bar was the same as every other young man> mainline it to the juice bar and get working on a brain cell obliterating Friday night drunk.

Once I had made it to the bar and ordered my drink, was when I began to scope the place out for hot 21+ year old women and realized the chances of finding a woman in this joint was pretty damn slim. The place was wall to wall men.

The preferred attire consisted of t-shirts several sizes too small and extremely tight leather pants> So tight that you could tell what religion each guy was.

It confirmed that men could in fact be floozies.
There were also several men who were shoeless. I don't know what that was all about, apparently it was some flamer trend. There are a lot of things that were peculiar to say the least, but the fear of the unknown overpowered my curiosity.


I looked at Bob with shock that I could feel jumping off my face and he was looking back at me with an expression that seemed to say: yes, this is a gay bar, and I brought you here, so yes again, I am a gay man and I am hoping so much that you don't freak out.

His hopes were dashed. I didn't totally freak out but I did say:

"what the fuck Bob? thanks for bringing me to a fuckin faggot bar!

"Shhh, its not a faggot bar"

"Well what would you call it then"

"A bar, that's all"

"Yea, A bar full of cocksmokers"

"You think I'm queer? That's why you brought me here? Do I look like a queer? Hey bob, the fact is I'm not gay but thanks for potentially giving me a fucking complex about it, this is the best way you could come up with for finding out if I was a snake handler?"


The point I need to interject here is Bob is really quite nervous at this point. Some of what he is feeling and projecting is of course embarrassment. I guess to him asking me out to a gay bar and getting my undesirable reaction was like a straight guy misreading what he perceives to be signs a girl is flirting with him but when he asks her out, she laughs at him. But what Bob is really uncomfortable about is my use of derogatory homosexual epithets and the reason he is so uncomfortable about it is because fags in a gay bar don't really remind you of Richard Simmons or Andy Dick they are not floating around inches above the floor exchanging makeup tips with each other they are some big, badass looking dudes that could easily hold their own in a brawl...they just happen to take it up the ass.

And like I said, this joint was packed. Another misconception about gay men is they are like women as far as their personalities and disposition. Yes there are queens, but gay men are predominantly just as aggressive and ready to throw down at the drop of a hat as straight men.


My tirade of homosexual epithets attracted a whole group of pissed off butt nuts.

They were saying things to Bob. Mostly things like : "is this your paper boy?"
"take him home and teach him some manners, then bring him back so we can all have a turn with him"
"I think you pulled him out of the closet too soon"


Now my anger toward Bob turned into a fight for the survival of my manhood against all the innuendo these fairies were directing at me.



HEY! Im not gay! This asshole brought me here, I didn't know this was a gay bar"

"(sarcastically)sure you're not gay honey"

"IM NOT GAY"

I started making my way to the exit. I know what it feels like to me a female navy midshipmen. I walked through 25 yards of roaring laughter and men blowing kisses at me while getting my ass and balls groped.

"See you next Friday night sweetie" was the last thing I heard as I pushed out the door.


Homophobic indeed.

MickGinny

See, if you had just shrugged and turned your attention back to your drink(s), you wouldn't have been laughed out by a crowd of people you're afraid of. :ymca:

A) this sounds like a story designed to find out if your audience are homophobes.

B) i met my wife in a gay bar. i'm not homophobic.

Sure, but most 18 year old boys, with raging hormones and great expectations of whore moans, wouldn't do that. :yelsick:

Here we go again... :spam2:

Even includes the Big Gay Al pic at the end.

What is the deal with this dude?

That's pretty simple. He posts stories he writes. They may have been posted elsewhere. They are written in such a way as to elicit reactions that are more likely from the gut than the mind. By not being politically correct, stepping on toes, rattling cages they might draw heavy fire from, in this case, queers or homophobes, and in all cases the politically correct.
When you throw out the bait you never know what will rise from the depths. ;)

One would appreciate either fresh bait, or links to old material.

Yes, it seems it is just one.

It also seems like you have no idea what spam is.

You are quite the snoopy detective...in fact i think i will refer to you as snoop hoggy hog from now on.



on a side note this is the error message i got when attenoting to upload the original. I had to resize the photo so it would fat.
snoop hoggy hog.jpg:
File Too Large. Limit for this filetype is 122.1 KB. Your file is 147.2 KB.

Bye Mick. I removed the image (of Wolf promoting Plastic Forks, which one can easily find if one paws through her links) and banned you.

Find another sandbox to play in. There are thousands of them on the Internet.

Wow, not only can he cut 'n paste, he can *GASP* link too!

Let's see, Plagerist, Spammer, Cut 'n Paste afficianado, Master of grade school humor that wasn't funny then either, and now soon to be a cloud of ions swirling in the cold, dark, forgotten nether regions of deep cyberspace.

Blindfold? Cigarette?

You know, I would have looked a lot smarter if you had waited four more minutes.:D

So that's what insufferably annoying is.

Thank you, UT.

Well, thousands is quite an under-estimation.

I guess that it is ok for me to receive abuse but not ok to retaliate. Whatever. I felt that this site was designed well and had great features...very user friendly. And I also felt that after I received my cellar baptism by fire that I would be able to share stories and thoughts with open minded people and create friendships.

However, if the skin of the average cellar user is as thin as yours then thank you for banning me before I developed any friendships. I make it a point to surround my self with strong, confident and tolerant people.

So see ya...you all keep in touch with yourselves,y ahear

MickGinny.

Hmm. With that over with and out of the way...

i met my wife in a gay bar. i'm not homophobic.

I'm convinced gay bars are nothing more than normal bars with a cleaner atmosphere and have a slightly higher percentage of homosexuals. I've never experienced anything like the hitting-on horrors described in the cut-n-paste story nor have I ever heard of other straight people running out screaming in terror.

No place serving good liquor could ever be that bad.

So why, technically, was this individual banned? Because he insulted wolf? I thought his stories sucked, but that's not the issue.

You didn't read the fine print on the back of your admission ticket did you, Garnet?

Nontransferable; must be used by the same person on any and all days. The Cellar is not responsible for misplaced, lost, or stolen items. The Cellar may change operating hours, close temporarily due to refurbishing, capacity, inclement weather or special events; and may otherwise change or be discontinued without notice and without liability to the owners of The Cellar. Not valid for special events requiring a seperate admission charge. It is agreed between the others of The Cellar and ticket users that all claims for injury or loss arising incident to presence on owner's property shall be litigated in Pennsylvania. Nonrefundable. Void if altered. Revocable. Admit One.

The Penthouse Letters school of journalism isn't putting out the quality of alumni it used to, is it?

I'm no netiquette expert, but wouldn't posting a bunch of unsolicited links to your fiction also be spam? Would the guy have been better received if he had simply said "I'm submitting my creative writing for your perusal, let me know what you think"? Is he merely clueless, or does he get off on negative feedback?

Also, ever notice that there's never more than one insufferably annoying new guy at a time? I sometimes wonder if someone's doing a psychology experiment on us, pretending to be a moron and then gauging our reactions. ("us" referring to newsgroups in general, not just the cellar).

[/paranoia]

The "fine print" has nothing to do with it--UT can run his site however he sees fit. I'm just curious why this person got booted when there's been WAY worse stuff said here than what MickGinny said about wolf.

Y'all didn't see the post in the brief four-minute period before UT edited it.

Trust me.

"Y'all didn't see the post in the brief four-minute period before UT edited it.

Trust me."
__________________



you are right beestie.






Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf
One would appreciate either fresh bait, or links to old material.




Yes, it seems it is just one.

It also seems like you have no idea what spam is.

You are quite the snoopy detective...in fact i think i will refer to you as snoop hoggy hog from now on.



on a side note this is the error message i got when attenoting to upload the original. I had to resize the photo so it would fat.
snoop hoggy hog.jpg:
File Too Large. Limit for this filetype is 122.1 KB. Your file is 147.2 KB.

Usually folks here get attacked for their ideas, not for just being. We've had some ugly incidents but usually you can trace it back to a breach of trust.

This is the registration message that everyone acknowledges they agree to.

OK, but it's definitely open to interpretation. I don't think posting re-run stories here is spamming, but hey, that's just my opinion. And yes, he seemed to have irritated a few people, but those people are the ones who attacked him with a vengeance as soon as he set foot in the Cellar. It just seems like some people are oddly threatened by newcomers here, and I just don't get it.

I think the bannination occured because of the stupid personal attack rather than the annoying content. I agree with UT.

And stupid personal attacks are grounds for getting banned around here? If that were the case 99% of us would be gone...

Yes, I'm the one who interprets it and that's undemocratic and not fair. But have a heart; after 20 years at this, I'm good at it. I know who is here to be a part of things and who is here because they spot a place they think they can take a big steaming dump for their own enjoyment.

It does my heart little good to see that, given a second chance [before IP-banning], this troll took exactly the same dump in exactly the same place, requiring the exact same cleanup. It does my heart no good because even though I know that, given a third and fourth and fifth chance, he will do the same thing, if I ban him I am the one who has to answer for it.

And yet I am the one who has to clean up the mess. If you can think of a better way please let me know.

It was immediately obvious to me that MickGinny had no intention of becoming part of this community. Anyone can fit in here. But first, you have to want to.

He probably didn't want to "become a part of this community" because a select group of people attacked him after ONE post. How can you possibly know what he's thinking or what his intentions are?

He's got some nerve talking about thin skin around here. How many of us here have been nearly roasted alive shortly after arrival and then again on a fairly regular basis and are STILL here? :flamer: If he didn't have the strength, confidence and tolerance to tough it out, perhaps he doesn't belong here anyhow. No skin of our backs, hey?

Well now, that’s a shame. I thought he had promise.
I don’t agree with Wolf that having something posted elsewhere first is a problem. And some Cellarites have objected to clicking links. I know if I were at work I’d be real skeptical about links for fear of hitting a site my employer thought was naughty.
He was trolling for reactions to his stories for sure, but then only a fool would go for that bait unless they were strongly offended and were willing to make a stand on the issue. Casual comments need not apply.
I think UT did the right thing because sooner on later there was going to be trouble, in that the gentleman apparently uses the massive nuclear strike method of fending off criticism.
Garnet, I heard he tortures small fuzzy mammals just for fun. ;)

no, kitsune, this was a real gay bar. there were only a couple of straight guys there, as we were, every sunday night for the drag show. it was one of only 2 (decent) bars open in the area on sunday nights and we worked at the other one so this was our ritual. many of our coworkers were gay so they were always there.

although i didn't partake, this gay bar fulfilled every stereotype imaginable. the first night i walked in one guy snickered while his buddy wagered he'd bed me in less than a week. (he was wrong). drugs flowed freely. drinks were tall, strong, and cheap. as the night went on queens began appearing on stage in less than full apparel. they had the best disco in town and lots of hot (real) females.

all in all it was a wonderful place to spend sunday nights for a few years of my life.

i didn't think he was that big of a deal. i only found it annoying that all he did was post the stories. he didn't converse or make any gesture to join the community.

from the other spam thread:

The fact he didn't just move on after he was banned and came back to insult just speaks to how much of a problem he would have been had he stayed.

Someone posts a story their first post. He doesn't show any indication that he lurked for five minutes to get the lay of the land. He doesn't introduce himself. He doesn't indicate whether or not he wrote it. He doesn't indicate whether its fiction or true. He doesn't indicate if he is the main character. He doesn't indicate whether or not he wants feedback. And it is immediately demonstrated that he has done the exact same thing on a number of other boards.

My reaction to all that was less than receptive.

(makes note for future reference) :biggrin:

Speakin in general though, I have met some wonderful people in so called gay bars. I personally find omnisexuality liberating. Doubles my chances of somebody buyng me a drink(harhar)

Once again, WHO CARES? Are you the Cellar Police? Look, I had no fondness for the guy or his writing whatsoever, but I just don't get why everyone immediately flipped out about this whole thing. He didn't introduce himself--so what? He doesn't give us the background behind his stories--again, so what?

Maybe the guy would have been a "problem," maybe not. Nobody here is psychic, are they? UT can do what he wants--it's his board, he works hard for it, and I respect that. But to me (and this is only my humble opinion) it appears he got axed for insulting wolf. At least the timing certainly makes it look that way--he insults wolf at 1:16 am, and six minutes later he is banned.

And I probably better shut up before I have to start posting as "BannedGarnet."

Not so much the mere insulting, but the going through her links in order to find a picture of her, uploading it, finding that it was too large, resizing it and posting it with childish personal insults.

And upon learning that it was unacceptable behavior, doing it again immediately.

(After posting one story about how stupid it was to judge people I might add)

You gonna do that? You'll get banned. Otherwise probably not.

Links and pictures that SHE attached to her Cellar profile. If you or anyone else doesn't want people using these links, perhaps they shouldn't be there.

His second post of the picture and related insult has nothing to do with him getting banned. You banned him after the FIRST picture was posted.

And "childish personal insults" aren't allowed here? Gosh, there sure are lots of 'em even though they're not allowed.... MickGinny getting banned just makes it look like certain people are being protected from those insults.

I don't care where the images are linked. When someone looks for ways to cause specific trouble by investigating users, looking for things they can use against them, it's a massive red flag. That is something I have to police very hard. It's for our protection and I would protect you in that way too... even if you don't think it's a problem.

One of the reasons I've cut down on my visits here is because of the seemingly senseless bashing of "new" people.

Obviously my opinion means about as much as a stack of shitcakes, but I've got mixed feelings on whether he should have been banned.

He's a twat, for sure, and he did dig around for a picture of wolf with which to insult her, but people have said a helluva lot worse around here.

And a lot of us are huge twats.

Did he get a few chances, or was that it? It seemed to be a ban as soon as he posted the "offending" image. I'm assuming UT has tons of experience with jagoffs and can smell them a mile away, but...I don't know. Seemed like an itchy trigger finger.

I'm trying to deduce whether or not I loathe garnet, because she's making a lot of good points in this thread ;-)

I hate when I can't remember who I hate.

You're not getting out that easily. :headshake

I think you make a good point. Some people are very quick to be unnecessarily hard on newbies. :(

Of course....she has the key to the happy meds. ;)

No, no, you dummy. It's me you loathe...try to keep that straight, will ya. :smack:

Bottom line....it's UT's call...he saw the post and did what he thought was best for the board. I trust his judgement.

Give some people enough rope, and they'll hang themselves nicely.

UT, as much as he downplays it because he is a gracious man, is the boss.

I believe that he knows what he is doing, and I have, in this instance, benefitted from it. Thanks again, UT for defending my honor, not once, but twice.

I'm fairly thick-skinned. You have to be, to work with nuts and junkies and not be a basket case at the end of the night. Actually, American High Schools train you well for that aspect of the job. On those rare occasions where stuff does hit home, and I take it personally, it tends to be briefly experienced. Get over it and move on.

Some folks fit in seamlessly, some folks don't. Some folks benefit the board by not fitting in seamlessly.

The writings Mick posted were not bad. The first one had some gentle touches of humor and was fun to read. The second was great descriptive narrative. If that's typical of the quality of what Mick might have contributed, he would have been one of the regulars in no time, if that's what he wanted. That's actually what I had initially expected to happen ... my first response to the Devil's here to fix something was very positive. And it hadn't occurred to me that we were getting reposted. Someone else caught that. I didn't even go checking on anything he wrote. I was doing research on something else, ended up on a board site, and while reading posts there, found Mick's handle ... and out of curiosity checked the post titles. That's when I found the Gay Bar story.

I participate in a fair number of boards. The Cellar is the best and longest lived of them all. UT's care and nuturing play no small part in that. The Cellar represents the same sort of free-for-all that they all do, but there's an intellectual edge to it that makes it better, more interesting, and more fun.

Anybody can come out and play here. Playing nice isn't even strictly part of it all. Playing reasonably is.

Here, I think, is the bottom line.

People get downright irate when a message board is not moderated as they like, but nobody is served well by an entirely unmoderated one.

People complain about cops, but without them you have modern Iraq.

It's a tough tightrope to walk and so I beg slack of you if it looks like I mess up from time to time.

While I haven't agreed with some of the stuff you've done, Tony, I've always respected you for maintaining and keeping the Cellar up. In this case, I think you were 100% right and you have my full support. (Not like you need it, but it's there if you want it.)

nope. i'm sharpening my pitchfork and looking for a torch as i type you heartless ogre.

Well you better hope he doesn't fall off that tightrope 'cause he might land on you. Of course you'll never know what hit you 'cause when we yell LOOKOUT you'll be taking a bow. :eyebrow:

thanks bruce - i had to smile at that one.

"The reason I have homophobic tendencies" would be more convincing if the story didn't make perfectly clear he was a flaming homophobe beforehand. ;-)

Jeez-o-man...the old joint really is hopping these days, innit.

Yes..but we still miss you. :)

hmm.. maybe I'm just not annoying you people enough or I have been written off as a firmly parttime cellarite.. (or by the time I get back to a post it's long gone) i found the atmosphere here to be rather welcoming.

too this whole gay thing... alright Lawrence Kansas has sooooo many homosexuals that it's a common place thing, there are even a couple of crossdressing bands.. and near as I see it I'm okay with that (not my cup o' tea as it were) but I tell ya what, you go into a bar with a high concentration of very very openly homosexual people.... pffth no frat boys and given the choice, I'd rather talk to the guy in the dress.. take the occasional winking at or being hit on, 99 times out of 100 when you say

"oh.. sorry, I'm straight" and then get back on the conversation thread you were on in the first place, you really get to meet some rather interesting people

anyway... people are for the most part very very silly creatures