Critique of Black Culture
 

I pulled this from a conservative blog Townhall.com. I apologize for not putting the link up, my system at work makes that difficult. I'll try to fix that when I get home.

Obviously this is a conservative website, and the author states he is a conservative so make of it what you will. I found it interesting because, other than Bill Cosby I don't see many people that are willing to come out and say this in a public forum. What are your thoughts on this?

From Weblog on Townhall.com
Brothers Behind Bars - It Ain't Whitey's Fault!

The following is my e-mail commenting on a story by Washington Times columnist John McCaslin:


Mr. MsCaslin,

I just read your "Inside the Beltway" snippett in today's Washington Times that Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY) is griping about the "alarming overrepresentation" ob black men in the U.S. penal system. He's upset that two-thirds of the U.S. prison population consists of racial and ethnic minorities, black men in their 20's have a one-in-eight chance of being locked up, and that black males born today have a one-in-three chance of going to prison during their lifetime, compared to a one-in-17 chance for white males.

As a black man, this upsets me, as well, but, as a conservative, I am infuriated by the "reason" that Congressman Rangel gives for this crisis. Apparently, he is attributing this serious problem to a "racist" criminal justice system, instead of the criminally anti-social behavior of many black men. "Despite the notion that the scales of justice is [sic] blind, it is no secret that racial bias plays a deplorable role in the disproportionate conviction and sentencing of African-American men, compared to their racial counterparts, who are charged with the same or a similar offense," says Rep. Rangel.

Nonsense.

This represents a classic knee-jerk response of "blame Whitey" by the modern-day black "leadership" in dealing with virtually every social and economic ill that has befallen the black community since the end of the Civil Rights Movement. Too many black men behind bars? Blame the white man. Seventy-percent black illegitimacy rate? Blame the white man. Middle-class black students academically underperforming compared to white, Asian and Caribbean immigrant students? Blame the white man. Instead of placing responsibility where it belongs - the anti-social behavior of black American males and the victimologist, separatist, and anti-intellectual black sub-culture from which it is bred, not too mention three generations of open-ended welfare that raped black Americans of any incentive to better themselves - Rangel, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and their ilk resort to the same tired excuse. And that's all it is- an excuse! Instead of combatting the aforementioned social ills and admonishing blacks to take responsibility for their actions, behavior and lives, today's black "leaders" continue to play the race card while screaming for more government handouts.

This explains why solutions to black-male incarceration and other problems in the black community will forever remain elusive.

Dutch Martin

Both versions are true, and they form a vicious circle.

No, they don't. Many so-called and usually self-appointed black leaders continue to remove the members of the black community from any share of responsibility for their condition. When you disembody the cause, you have precluded self-determinism. Therefore, these "leaders" create a dependency via advocacy ("I'll fill your needs since the white man will not permit you to fill them yourself") from which they derive benefit.

Real black leaders who do not subscribe to the idea that blacks are exempt from a share of the responsibility for their fate and preach self-determinism are castigated by the so-called black leaders and those members of the black community who benefit from a dependency upon them. There's your viscous circle.

This is a complex problem. You can look at racism, labelling theory, welfare, affirmative action, etc. as aspects that contribute to the perpetuation of the apparent inability of blacks to better their position in society.

But ultimately they are all only factors that contribute to a tendency to decide whether or not to better their positions. The child of a working mother is going to have a better chance at betterment. The child of the working mother's child is going to stand a good chance at betterment if their parent was successful as well. It's a feedback loop of sorts, but until more blacks are willing to fight the factors and start the cycle things are only going to get worse as educational levels decline and racial ratios increase.

I think the writer would be lambasted just for thinking such ideas, let alone writing them, if he's were white.

He's spot on about looking for excuses, seems the trend in todays society to dodge responsibility for one's actions. Blame it on the fact that your father smacked your ass one time when you were a kid or whatever, anything but the fact that you, as an individual, commited the crime.

I also frequent townhall.com, but don't read the blogs, just the main commentary pages.

They have several really good black commentators that do look at things sensibly and objectively, and, because they are black, are able to get away with it, although the "Uncle Tom" and "Oreo" appelations are still thrown around by black community leaders that make money off the continuing oppression of their folks.

I'm reminded of the shitstorm that followed Bill Cosby saying much the same things in his call for personal responsibility this past year.

thomas sewell writes there occassionally.

I love walter williams.

I, for one, am glad to see increasing calls for personal responsibility in any and all groups. The Victim Mentality is killing our society.

here here

Watching white people try to discuss black culture is funny. :)

Here is the link to Mr. Martin's post.

This is what Mr. Martin is referring to:

Brothers behind bars
The "alarming overrepresentation" of black men in the U.S. penal system concerns Rep. Charles B. Rangel, outspoken New York Democrat and member of the Congressional Black Caucus.

The congressman from Harlem notes that two-thirds of the U.S. prison population is made up of racial and ethnic minorities — and for black men in their 20s "one in every eight is in prison or jail on any given day."

"Even more upsetting is that African-American males born today have a one-in-three chance of going to prison during their lifetime, compared to a one-in-17 chance for white males," Mr. Rangel notes. "At year-end 2003, African-American inmates represented an estimated 44 percent of all inmates with sentences of more than one year."

That causes Mr. Rangel to wonder if the sentencing system is truly colorblind.

"Despite the notion that the scales of justice is blind, it is no secret that racial bias plays a deplorable role in the disproportionate conviction and sentencing of African-American men, compared to their racial counterparts, who are charged with the same or a similar offense," he notes.

In fact, the United States is experiencing a decrease in crime rates, yet the overall prison population — federal, state and local — is increasing, particularly among blacks. This is said to be because of "truth-in-sentencing" laws that limit early releases, impose mandatory sentences for drug offenses, and set "three strikes and you're out" laws for repeat offenders.

More than 2 million Americans are behind bars.

I share Rep. Rangel's concerns, though racial bias in the justice system is just one of the many problems that needs to be addressed. Mr. Martin is reaching just a little bit...he accuses Rangel of a knee-jerk reaction, when he seems to be doing the same thing.

When I compare Rangel's opinion with Martin's what I see is one person looking at the symptoms of the problem and forecasting that the problem will get no better for the current generation of black men and one person looking at the causes and possible solutions to the problem.

So, if you are a young black man (10 years old let's say), you have Rangel telling you that one out of thee black men will find themselves behind bars (i.e., your future is shit) OR you have Martin and Cosby, et al saying stay in school, don't have babies you can't raise, stay out of gangs, don't do drugs and to visualize a positive future, who you gonna listen to? The guy that excuses every bad thing that happens to you (enabler) or the guy that says "yeah, the playing field ain't level but life ain't fair - but we made it and you can too!!!"

A leader of black people who predicts that one in three black men will be behind bars in ten years is pretty much insuring that he will be proven correct because he is already saying its not your fault. Nice.

How do you know that Rangel is predicting? As I see it, he's noting a problem and highlighting one of the causes. I don't think he's trying to be necessarily negative or fatalistic.

I don't necessarily disagree with Martin, but he's overgeneralizing.

That's worth repeating. :thumbsup:

.

Again, how do you know that he is predicting? I haven't researched it, but perhaps he is quoting some sort of study.

What he's doing is proclaiming a self-fulfiling prophecy. Charles Rangel's worst fear is a self-actualized black man who doesn't need him.

Could be...or he could be quoting a sociological study, and his worst fear is that his people will become extinct.

Or he could be pulling strands of protien out of his colin. I guess I have failed to make the point that black men who take charge of their own life have little use for dumbasses like Al Sharpton/Charles B. Rangel/whoever.

Who says that black men have much use for them to begin with?

One man's dumbass is another man's hero.

So speaketh the honorary negro ... (just :stickpoke you know I love you dude.)

I know that I perhaps view the world through a naive suburban white woman's rose-colored prescription glasses, but might not the demographic imbalance in prison be representative of a demographic imbalance in the number of crimes committed by whites vs. persons of other races/ethnicities?

Niggers.

Can't live with 'em. can't live without 'em!

I can show you many instances of white people acting dumdass stupid.

"It isn't the color of your skin, but the content of your character" - MLK

It seems that people like Sharpton and Rangel want to be the next MLK Jr, leading other black people out of the Abyss of Racism and Injustice. However, they don't seem to realize that the scenery has changed. This isn't a time of White and Colored bathrooms and water fountains. Long gone (for the most part) are stores and diners that refuse to serve or even admit non-whites. Back then it was basically white vs non-white when it comes to fatal violence. However, now black people have more to fear from other black people. More often than not, they're bringing themselves down and holding themselves back.

Of course, this creates a problem for people like Rangel or Sharpton. To address this correctly, they need to target the black people who are holding back other blacks who are otherwise trying to rise out of their situations. But if they do that, they'll have one faction claiming they're going after their own people instead of focusing on where the problem is (anywhere but within). There's something do be said for the man who boldly strides forward, but for this, it's a delicate dance they'd have to do, and I don't think either of them are nimble enough.

Same thing can be said for Crackers. They're all over the place, getting into everything...a person can't go ANYWHERE without running into that pasty anglosaxon face. :rolleyes:

Why? Because they actually give it more study than its participants?

white people talking about conditions in minority communities = ignorance, racism, or both.

members of minority groups discussing white people = witty social commentary. :eyebrow:

Well, you can hardly write a critique of white American culture, because as everyone knows, that's a contradiction in terms.

touche

Afraid not, WAC is actually the plagerized and remarketed aggregate of all of the other cultures it comes in touch with. Why do you think the french are trying to keep it out of france?

It sure is. :haha:

You'd be amazed at what black folks are talking about these days (and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of people here wouldn't like it one bit).

Then clue us in. Otherwise what's your point?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ack+talk+radio

Pick one and "study".

Does black talk radio represent blacks the same way white talk radio represents whites?

You asserted that there are issues that would not be to certain people's liking. What issue do you think is one that my pasty self wouldn't like?

Edit: As far as "study" goes I spend an inordinant amount of time trying to discern the commonalities in human thought so that such superficial traits as skin color are irrelavent. Part of the problem with the big picture is that people are so unwilling to loose themselves of aspects that they have no control over and that can be used as an excuse or as an artificial barrier to distance themselves from people who are really all the same.

Well, from what I've heard here in Philadelphia, I've listened to the black talk radio station and I've listened to the more conservative station (that seems to cater more to a white audience), and just from that example, I'd say that they echo a lot of the opinions of blacks and whites that *I* know, respectfully.

But, you'd have to listen for yourself to really get perspective.

Try this:
http://www.what1340i.com/

If you are able, the best time to listen (study) would be sometimes btwn 7am-12 noon, then from 7pm until 1am.

Trust me, you'll find the answer to your question there.

I appreciate your information, but you still haven't given me an answer.

There are apparentluy issues that stood out in your mind. Share them.

But I did. The link to the radio station.

TS: You made a statement that implied (to me, at least) that whites "study" (discuss) black culture more than blacks do. I gave you the link to the radio station to listen to as proof that the statement was incorrect, and that blacks most certainly DO study their own culture and discuss it more than people realize.


There is also this article to consider:

Black Talk Radio: Defining Community Needs and Identity
http://tinyurl.com/6ev47

So they've moved the barber shop to the air waves. I wonder what the ratio of the people that call in to the people that just listen in, is? Also what kind of screening they do before someone gets on the air? I'm sure they give preferance to callers that have spoken well in the past. :)

I carry my Righteous Whitey card on me at all times.

We know that there are more blacks than whites in prisons (source), but then we'd have to factor in probations, suspended sentences, etc. I'd say whites outnumber blacks in the end, but blacks are disproportionately represented.

Are you saying that this is the case? I certainly hope not, because--while it could be true based on sheer numbers--the chances of you being able to back up such a statement aren't very good.

I find watching white people try to discuss black culture funny because I believe that the vast majority of white people are ignorant about black culture. Though white people tend to be incredibly good at talking about things of which they have next to no knowledge. :)

Quite possible.

Not necessarily...let me fix your equation for you:

sycamore discussing any and all people = always witty social commentary :)

yeah, you and dave chappelle.

I have a feeling that minorities are involved more with the crimes that have been targeted for stiff sentencing. Of course those crimes may have been targeted because of minority involvement. :eyebrow:

The FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2000 has a lot of numbers.

Because they have chosen to release it as a .pdf file, it's a pain in the ass to reference specific pages ...

What we are looking at here is Section IV Persons Arrested

Head directly for Table 43 Arrests by Race 2000.

Looking at just the aggregate number of arrests for all index crimes, we find that there are 72.1 % of whites arrested, 25.1% of blacks.

The 2000 Census informs us that 77.1% of persons reported as white, and 12.9% reported as black.

I'm not getting into any complex statistical transforms here ... just looking at the raw percentages.

I'm trying to find a good way to phrase this and keep coming up short ... basically what I'm getting from this is that whites are offending proportionaly to their percentage of population, while blacks are committing (or getting caught committing crimes) at a much higher rate, in fact about twice the rate that would be expected if all other factors were equal.

(on the UCRs it is interesting to see the varience overall in the racial breakdown in the commission of certain types of crimes ... blacks and whites murder at nearly equal rates, but whites are more likely to perpetrate forcible rape, vandalism, arson, DUI, fraud, embezzlement, and forgery, among others.

Blacks lead in robbery, gambling, and have a probably statistically insignificant lead in murder and manslaughter.)

Not really, more a case of an assinine response to an assinine remark.

I find watching black people try to discuss white culture funny because I believe that the vast majority of black people are ignorant about white culture. Though black people tend to be incredibly good at talking about things of which they have next to no knowledge.

White collar crime is handled in such a way that much less time as a whole is spent in prison. I'm betting that that goes a long way towards skewing the in prison representation of of whites versus minorities.

Additionally, money makes a case much easier to get pled off or successfully fought.

You might have noticed that I put a smiley face next to my original comment, because--while I do find it funny that whites are talking about black culture--it was meant to be humorous. Of course, you could have just asked what I meant without throwing your asinine remark in.

Though I can't back it up with any type of study, I think whites have the lion's share of the "talking out of my ass" market.

And I think blacks know way more about white culture than vice versa because they live in (what is still) a predominantly white culture.

Two items

I reread the thread, which is sometimes good to do, and I think Cyber Wolf has the most insightful comment in it, summarizing Sharpton and Rangel as trying to be the heroic black leaders of the past but failing to address the fact that the past is past.

I listened to Mary Mason on WHAT for 15 minutes just now. This discussion was on incarceration of innocents. I don't think I learned anything at all about black culture. Ms. Mason has annoyed me for many decades now and I won't be further annoyed. LSyc, if you have a point to make about it you are not getting it across by giving out homework assignments.

And I think blacks know way more about white culture than vice versa because they live in (what is still) a predominantly white culture.

Bullshit.

In real life, they live in their community, which urban demographics show is most likely to be a concentration of minorities, rather than a nationwide even distribution of one black family surrounded by eight white ones. So they are surrounded by their own culture there.

And in the media, a disproportionate amount of TV shows, commercials, and movies are steeped in Black culture, styles, and trends. I personally feel it's about a 50/50 split, but that's just anecdotal from channel-surfing. Regardless, they have plenty of cultural representation there.

The only place that I will agree is still dominated by white culture is the internet. To which I simply say--give it time.

Discussions like this one are bogus. Blacks are like this. Whites are like this. Talk about your overgeneralizations.

Treat people as individuals and not as 'examples' of some group and everything else will come out in the wash.

Thank you Dar. I agree. People are people. We have a natural tendency to break the world down to us and them, but I have a major problem with the people that stand up and cry for equality and an end to discrimination while perpetuating the us vs them mentality.

The laws in America have been changed to end segregation and the other nasty elements that went along with it. that happened years ago, we are still in the ongoing process of eliminating the thought process that is racism. the problem is that there are people who benefit by keeping the us vs them going (Jackson, Sharpton, some of the leadership of the NAACP). having a cause to champion is the key to their power and authority. if they encouraged a truly color blind society like MLK, Jr envisioned and spoke of, they would see their locus of power dissipate.

there are still many ignorant people with subconscious racially biased thought processes that affect their actions. there will always be some ignorant fools who consciously and purposely promote racism. we all know the KKK still exists and most americans despise them for what they are - ignorant, cruel fools who want to keep our society divided and racially conflicted. But the KKK aren't the only ones who do this - I believe, to a degree, Jackson, Sharpton, and Co. do the exact same thing just with different verbage.

The only way to truly end racially motivated discrimination and ignorant behavior is for the groups to integrate and know each other as individuals. the average person has biases against certain groups of people, but they may have friends that fall into those groups. They don't have any problems with that person and respect and view them just as any other person. That person has been removed from the group bias because the biased individual knows them as a person.

As long as we have large groups of people rallying together because of their "differentness" then we will have fear, ignorance, descrimination, and all the nasty things that go along with it.

Like I posted earlier, the only really important differences are in how people think, not skin color, height, shape of the nose, etc.

*Pleads the fifth...*

There are several other hosts on the station that are worth listening to. If you can, try Reggie Bryant between 10pm and 1am. Yes, that's late for most folk. He used to be on during the day. I think he got bumped to late night to make room for Air America (12 noon-7pm). Also, the lineup on the weekends is pretty good as well.

I honestly felt that I had made my point by giving the link to the site for those who would want to listen to the station. IMO, any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.). You know how they say, "go to the source".

But, that's just me. *shrugs*

[In reponse to dar's post]

Well, if we want to turn the focus back to the "individual" then we should probably cease using the term "culture." Unless we are saying that the term "[fill-in-the-blank] culture" has no meaning since its a generalization and that generalizations do not apply.

See, but you're not making a point if your whole point is "If you don't get it already, I can't explain it to you." You made a veiled threat about how some people on this board would not like one bit what issues black folks are talking about, but won't simply name those issues. You claim to be in the know about what black folks are talking about, but then you suggest that we go to the source. Why is some inflammatory DJ any more or less "the source" than you are?

i prefer american culture. and i refuse to put qualifiers in front of american. african-american, mexican-american, etc... gay american and ugly american are still ok though. :D

That is absolutely hilarious ... white liberal talk radio has taken away the voice of expression of blacks. Gotta love it.


:headshake

The notion of a society where everyone is "individual" is a myth. Even if we were to have some sort of tower of Babylon moment where we were scattered to the corners of the earth, within a year we would have grouped ourselves up again based on skin color, religious affiliation, like/dislike of Britney Spears...

And anyway, most generalizations have at least a kernel of truth to them. They're not universally true, but they're true somewhere. White people eat an inordinate amount of mayonnaise. Black people are more likely to be good gospel singers. So?

The fact remains that people are still responsible for their actions. Opportunity is something that has to be sought out - you can't just sit around on the doorstep waiting for someone to hand it to you. And that's what Sharpton, et al, are preaching. Their constituency is starting to see the hypocrisy, and it won't be long before another MLK steps up to put the asshats in their place.

[/blahblahblah]

Oh, there are cultures. But to speak of the black culture or the white culture as though there was only one of each is useless.

Yes, "people are people": great on paper, great to say and a kick ass song by a kick ass group..oh sorry. :D

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this is all lip service: "We're all the same" "People are People", etc.Just because one says it doesn't and won't make it true. Funny how "all men are created equal" but are not treated as such.

I realize this may not be the "popular" view here, but oh well, that's just how I see things.

Clodfobble said:
LOL, but you just said that was my "whole point" so wouldn't that have BEEN a point?:D

And at any rate, when I said, "any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.)." was merely to say that a single black person couldn't possibly speak for other blacks (plural). Damn. And why should I? That's not my responsibility or job to do, and I won't. Just as I don't expect other blacks to speak for ME.

Threat? Threat???? LMAO! Lordy...No, not at all. (good grief!!) :3_eyes: :confused: WTF is up with all these assumptions?! :rolleyes:

ANYhoo, I did state (not threaten) that there are indeed some topics and issues that blacks discuss that certainly would not set right with some people here. And the only reason why I posted the link to the radio station that I listen to quite frequently is so that people here could hear FIRST HAND (or at least, get SOME idea) what I was talking about, instead of having me to explain and not get my point across clearly, and end up having a senseless back and forth thing that will just get dragged on and on into oblivion.

Precisely. Isn't that what Cellerites love...sources? ;) Besides, why are you getting so bent out of shape about that?

If you are referring to Ms. Mary Mason (noted in UT's post to me), I have to say that she is not so much "inflammatory" as she is brutally honest with many things. But, that's in the eye of the beholder...

However, as I told UT, there are many other show hosts that one can listen to on that station. I would really love to be able to tune you all into Joe Madison. I listened to him while back home in MD, and he was a great source of information: http://joemadison.com/

And as I said, I thought that's what people here appreciated: a link to a source to examine, study, etc. etc.

Funny: when anyone else here provides a link, it's just a link, people check it out, and even comment on the source (good, bad, can't trust it, whatever), but in this case, it's considered a "homework assignment" and I get all kinds of adversity about it...interesting.