Missing Munitions
 

Well spunky local Minneapolis affiliate KSTP (go channel 5!) happened to have some interesting footage that backs up the Pre-Bush-spin pentagon official's statement that the munitions did not go missing before US troops got to them.

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1kstp.com

This is from the report. Still not conclusive, but pretty hard to ignore:

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also

Bush supporters are spinning to blame some more bad apple soldiers and Russia and the nasty character of that bad man Kerry for this blunder. Just get on it already and figure out what the hell happened. This does not help me feel safer, its evidence to the contrary. Now a militant group is claiming to have some of the stuff...

Doh! you all were already talking about this! sorry for the duplicate. delete if you wanna....

No, that's OK. This warrents its own thread, and for me its helpful when threads don't wander so much, so thanks for putting it all down in a seperate spot. All I have to say is that it's like the US is HELPING Al QaQaa - letting the Bin Laden family flee the US right after 9/11 when no one else could fly, George Jr.'s statement that he wasn't troubled about finding Bin Laden, now this. I swear to God, George Jr. could appear on TV arm and arm with Bin Laden with all the members of AlQaQaa raising their rifles in a salute in the background and the American voter would STILL say, "Gotta vote for Bush. HE'S keeping us safe!" This willful blindness to Bush's inept bungling is downright frightening.

This willful blindness to Kerry's inept politicking, attempts to be all things to all people, frightening voting record, shameless pandering, and unwillingness to release his DD214 (yeah, that's minor shit, but he still won't do it) is downright frightening.

Here is Kerry's DD214. From his website. The rest of that is opinion, so I've got no qualms ignoring it. And (IMHO, so you may in turn ignore it) all of it is minor shit compared to Bush's castastrophes.

Why an intelligent person would believe that Kerry refused to release his DD214 when it's posted on the internet for the world to see is troubling. Why an intelligent person would compare the service record of Kerry to that of Bush who wouldn't even show up for his National Guard physical and find Bush to be the better man is troubling. Why an intelligent person would compare "inept" politicking with inept actions in regard to the security of this country is troubling. Why an intelligent person would compare "shameless pandering" (I presume you mean to the voters) with the Bush administration's overt ties with Halliburton et al and various big oil concerns is troubling. This is all "minor shit" in deed when compared with the major and very real damage that the Bush administration has brought down on all our heads.

While I do not agree with the conservative point of view, I can respect those who give an intelligent argument for their stance. Please don't ask us to waltz around the "elephant in the living room" with you, Wolf.

This is the second time I've posted a link to Kerry's DD214.

*sigh*.

Al QaQaa is the weapons facility that the munitions have gone missing from; no one is "helping" it and it has no members. Bush allowing the non-terrorist (and no one has presented ANY evidence otherwise) members of the Bin Laden family to leave the United States was a decent and honorable thing to do -- or would you prefer he let them risk being lynched?

Nah, he let them go home while other Middle-eastern and Islamic backgrounded people who live HERE were harassed, beaten and openly hated. Besides, if they weren't a threat and if the gov't had paid them no mind (publicly) then no one would have known they were Bin Laden kin (unless of course they went around announcing it).

I've a feeling Wolf likes Bush because he thinks it's ok for every American citizen to be heavily armed at all times...and, if he's re-elected, all American citizens will pretty much have to be heavily armed at all times.

May I ask how ANYONE had a chance to find and/or present evidence in their favor or against it in the space of the two days between 9/11 and their departure? They could have been questioned in a reasonable manner at some safe facility and then put on their planes back home and no one would have had to wonder whether they knew anything or not. 5,000 people were killed. Surely, the Bin Laden family would have been willing to answer a few questions to help track down a mass murderer! :eyebrow:

OK. OK. Personally, The saudi family travel thing is not on the top of my gripe list. Nor is Kerry's windsurfing, or Vietnam protests, or Bush's drinking or bulge.

But the mismanagement of actions that send Americans into "harms way" and jeapordize American and global security is right up there. Number one with a bullet.

Questions:
Do you think the media coverage of this Al QaQaa story in the NYT is partisan politics or journalism? Should KSTP have not come forward with their video?
Now that we know munitions have gone missing...What went wrong?
And way more importantly...What can be done now to better secure other munitions and hazardous materials that do presently exist for the security of Iraqis, our troops, and terrorist targets around the world? Does this deserve adminstrative level attention?

No, that would be the result of Kerry win.

In a parallel universe, perhaps.

The worst case scenario for the 2nd amendment in a Kerry administration is that the assault weapons ban will be put back in place--by Republicans in Congress.

Yeah, you gotta wonder about Kerry when he makes statements like the following:

"Each and every child in this country is valuable because they are our future as a society. We cannot afford to lose a single child to ill-health, under-education, abuse, addiction, jail, or gun violence ." (emphasis my own)

That terminator dude was right. Kerry's just another wussie boy who doesn't want 6 year olds to have assault weapons, but wants them to go to school, instead. Jeez, the next thing you know they'll be letting black people in Florida vote. Where's it gonna stop? :eek:

BTW, Wolf, your pal, Bush, was against letting everyone have assault weapons. When are you going to start getting your information from someone other than Rush Limbaugh?

-5...excessive melodrama.

Under your logic, bathtubs should be banned, Mari, as more children die in them than from "gun violence."

Friends who saw Bush in Wilkes Barre report that he said that although he had stated he would sign the AWB renewal if it came across his desk, he knew it wasn't going to come across his desk.

You may believe that, or you may choose not to. It's not up to you.

BUSH: I did think we ought to extend the assault weapons ban and was told the bill was never going to move. I believe law-abiding citizens ought to be able to own a gun. I believe in background checks. The best way to protect our citizens from guns is to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns. http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_...un_Control.htm

What makes you think I'm in favor of gun control, anyhow? I thought I posted here somewhere or other than I'm a firm believer in weapons, even assault guns, for every citizen. Maybe that was some other board, if so, I'm posting it here now. A criminal, by definition, is going to get his hands on illegal weapons, regardless. Law abiding citizens need all the munitions they can possibly gather to protect themselves from Homeland Security forces. Six year olds need to concentrate on passing the first grade and playing with their toy ships and rubber duckies in the bath tub. In Western Colorado, deer kill more people than terrorists, criminals, and bath tubs combined. Maybe we should put up wanted posters of Bambi in the post offices. I'm sorry, I'm having a logic short circuit, so I'll shut up now. :greenface

Did we just kind of agree on something. Again? I'm feeling faint. I need a lie down.

... that wanted posters should be printed and distributed for Bambi - wanted dead or decapitated (I don't like rats)?

Who knows, Wolf? We might even refrain from pulling our shotguns out on one another if we ever met. I can see it now. You at the admitting desk, me with my escort of two nice young men in their clean white suits... :D

I'll see to it that you have the finest in rubber rooms.

Wolf, since you obviously support Bush (and I think you are reasonably intelligent for a conservative pagan), can you give me 5 reasons why this support? Or is it just one issue, guns? I'd like to hear your reasoning. 5 reasons to vote for Bush.

I am not a single issue voter, but you could say that 2nd Amendement issues rate quite highly on my priority list.

1. Pro RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms)
2. Pro Death Penalty
3. Doesn't kiss UN ass, and I don't think will be selling us out to the UN any time soon
4. I don't trust Kerry as far as I can throw him. I think he's inconsistent, and potentially dangerous. See #3.
5. Kerry's assortment of nebulous plans to increase government giveaways is likely to impact me negatively. Since Bush took office, I've got more money in my pocket than I did last year and the year before. I'm not in an outsourcable industry, so that's not an issue.

There's more, but I'm getting tired.

By various accounts there were various unsecured munitions dumps that were reported to the US authorities that were ignored becuase they didn't contain the holy WMD, only SAMs and oh, 350 TONS of fucking semtex now being gainfully employed in high power roadside bombs that are mashing up hummers on a daily basis. If that isn't proof of political mishandling of the war nothing is.

Thanks for the response Wolf. I appreciate your thoughts even if I dont share your view or specific priorities.
I'm listening to all the broadcast rhetoric, getting antsy about the polarization. I dont want us to lose all common ground no matter who ends up with this presidency.
I see that you, like me, dont want government setting limits on your freedom, want to live with some security and you do not want to be mislead or fooled.

As much as you distrust Kerry, I dont trust Bush based on his misstatements and actions. I dont believe that he has done a good job as commander. National security is my #1 issue. Kerry has convinced me that he will be strong and vigilant, open to learning new information and able to repond wisely. I believe that the situation in Iraq has proven more complex than the Bush team can handle philosophically, theoretically or practically.

other reasons:
Separation of church and state (basic personal freedom- which encompasses pro choice and pro gay rights)
Embraces Science (emcompases stemcell, environmental, and economic issues)
Will not privatize Social security (further dividing the rich from the poor)
Will deal with the healthcare crisis by covering kids under 18 (pay now or really pay later)
Will better fund education (investing)

Children under 18 are already covered ... by state plans. The healthcare crisis isn't as critical as you're being told.

More funding to education does not improve the system. The Washington, DC school district (heck, any large city district) gets more funding pumped into it than anywhere else in the country, and those kids, in large measure, still aren't learning. It's not about the $$.

GWB is not just praying that things go away ... there's science in them thar hills. Yes, we have a lot of fucked up environmental policy in this country, but fault also has to be laid at the feet of the environmental movement (yes, I said it). I'm not in favor of clearcutting old growth forest by any means, but a lot of what's been done over the last 20-30 years has caused more problems (wildfires, landslides, etc.) than it's solved.

I had originally ended with my little dance on abortion, but I deleted it. I'm Pro-Abortion (get that, not "choice". I don't play semantic games about the procedure. I believe that life begins at conception. It's a baby, not a "foetus" to softball the idea to the woman who is selecting it.) I don't think that public funds should ever pay for an abortion. I don't think that any good will be served, however, by reversing Roe v. Wade, despite it having magically created a right to privacy that's not enumerated in the constitution. Safe legal abortion beats the old system every time ... back alley for the poor, and therapeutic D&C for the wealthy and/or connected.

Freedom OF religion is not the same as freedom FROM it, which is what most people today seem to think it means.. The government does not and has not established a state religion ... ever.

People can go right on ahead and be gay or whatever else they may want to be, but don't be asking to get married. I'm actually more for the abolition of marriage as a matter of civil law. It's religious law that was codified into civil law to begin with ... you want to get married to someone, go to the church of your choice. You want to cohabit with someone and become partners in a business like arrangement to simplify the division of property when you no longer want to cohabit? Go see a lawyer. I think that more was lost than people realized when the wedding ceremony wording was changed, even in the Catholic Church to "as long as your love shall last."

Social Security moves funds from the poor to the rich. The poor can least afford to pay it, and then they die sooner. The rich reach the contribution limit while earning, and then live to be very old. The over-65 age group is the richest group per-capita although people in it are in a very different way than other rich/poor groups.

I shouldn't be able to collect my full SS benefits until I'm at least 75. It's certainly not that I want work longer, but when the SSA was created, most people didn't live to 65. I haven't looked at the stats recently, but it used to be that the average person got back everything they paid into SS in 13 months. No wonder it's going broke. Fuck it...anyone born after 2006 should not receive Social Security.

A lot of people can't afford to pay for health insurance, but make too much for themselves or their kids to qualify for assistance.

There are plenty of reasons why the environment is fucked up, but let's not forget plain ol' human idiocy (such as the firestarters out west last year).

There may be no official denomination, but this nation still embraces the Judeo-Christian version of a higher power pretty hard.

Regardless of who you support, make sure you go vote tomorrow! Tuesday November 2, 2004...don't let some of the literature out there fool you! ;)