cars again: why suvs suck
 

We haven't had a cars thread here for a while, but I needed someplace to stow this New Yorker piece on SUVs.

tw will love it, except that it kinda debunks the Firestone tire problems as being entirely trivial compared to the problems brought on merely by driving SUVs.

http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html

Halfway down the page is an explanation of how Ford F-series drivers kill more other drivers on the road than any other vehicle. About six times as many, per capita, than Toyota Avalon and VW Jetta drivers.

A few years back an F-150 driver ran into my car. I wasn't in it at the time... it was *parked*, at a mall, and the dickwad didn't have the energy to turn his wheel hard enough to squeeze into the spot next to me. I hit him back for $3000 insurance worth of bodywork at the most expensive custom place in town, and STILL I have a rattle that will live for the life of the car. :mad2:

Not entirely accurate, but a pretty good picture of the situation.
Being America, I’ll drive any damn thing ...Homeland Security allows.
When it comes to safety, the driver is 10 times as important as the vehicle. :angel:

gee i guess a F-350 loaded with 2-3000 lbs of test weights and tools could smush your jetta like a grape !!!!

Article says it won't. 47 out of a million Jetta drivers die each year while 110 F-series drivers die each year. Article says that's because the Jetta is nimble and can avoid the crash.

Since I usually drive the Echo, I don't like the trend on the light end either. I'd hate to see the death rate on my buggy since it handles poorly, brakes badly, and would fit nicely under a Hummer. Pete's Impreza though fits into the handles its way out of trouble department. I'd rather trust handling over weight for saftey.

As you all know, the whole SUV phenomenon is an end-run around the legislation to improve the fleet feul efficiency of the automobile. SUVs are classified as trucks, so they are exempt from those regulations. Perhaps the answer to the SUV problem is to classify them as trucks and treat them that way. Only holders of commercial truck drivers licences should be permitted to drive SUVs. That should reduce the number of accidents cited in this article, and it would probably also make them less desirable to suburbanites. The SUV would still be legal, and if you wanted to have one badly enough, you could pass the test to get a license to drive one.

With oil around $55 per barrel and going up as we head into winter, the country would be better off with a fleet of vehicles that uses less fuel.

obviously written by a dolt. it's 'unibody'. and SUV's have crumple zones, too. as well as rubber mounted motors designed to drop out the bottom in severe frontal impacts. My Jeep is a 'uniframe' construction, which combines the cage with frame rails....

duh. what is more flexible or functional than an SUV? that's the whole point of them.

suck my dick. i can't read any more of that drivel.

here's the deal: and SUV is a STATION WAGON. 4wheel drive is safer in wet weather, snow, and off road. the height of the vehicle and the driver position keep you above most side impacts with beer cans like the echo and the jetta.

so, after much bashing of suv's and how much more nimble a boxster is to drive ( jinx made me read that part) the author plops this in there:
well, no shit. now go buy a trash can in your boxster.
or put a car seat in it, or drive to work in the snow, blah blah blah.

the pole up this author's ass has a pole up its ass.

I *prefer* to drive a smaller, more nimble vehicle, but (1) I have a camper to tow, (2) I have musical equipment to haul (3) I have a family to drive around (4) I have a home in constant need of repair (5) I have junk to haul off and (6) I drive a long way to work in bad weather, year-round.

My Explorer gets terrible gas mileage, but it solves many of the difficulties associated with my daily life.

I think it would be nice to have a small panel truck as a backup vehicle for just such occasions. Of course that doesn't really address the family thing.

Whether an SUV is "safer" depends on the conext of the accident... none of the author's tests were a head-on collision, for instance, so he can't speak to the experience there.

But I think the author's point, as the numbers seem to demonstrate, is that the majority of accidents are avoidable, provided your vehicle is nimble enough to do the avoiding. If the Titanic hadn't been so damn big, it could have missed that iceburg.

I did feel safer when driving my low-slung Camaro SS, because on the few occasions that my safety was threatened, I had a bigger toolbox to work with... if the brakes weren't going to help me, I also had a responsive gas pedal and steering wheel... and they saved me in a few close calls. But when I was driving my SUV (a Chevy S10 Blazer), a crank of the steering wheel was a dangerous prospect given the rollover risk, and the gas pedal was not too helpful since the V6 took some winding up to alter the inertia of all that steel. But of course the Camaro felt like (and was) a comparative deathtrap when driving in icy/snowy conditions.

I think the author's dissection of the psychology of SUV drivers is flawed, however. He says that SUV drivers are insecure, but how secure is the guy that bought the Boxster insead? Everyone knows that Porsche drivers never use the urinals in public restrooms, opting for the stalls... think about it. :)

I think he's leaving out a lot of considerations. There is gazillions of F series fords out there being driven everyday by contractors and their help. Overloaded, traffic, distractions galore, constantly phoning, looking for addresses and street signs, and spilling coffee. Hardly the profile of your average Jetta driver. I'd be more interested in fatalities per million miles driven than million vehicles on the road.

Wouldn't a minivan do the job with better mileage? You could wear a disguise. ;)

BTW- My PT Cruiser is a truck because the seats are removable. The convertible version is a car because they are not removeable.
Of course the Ford Crown Vics the cops drive are imports, so don't be fooled by categories. The feds haven't come up with one category the auto makers couldn't subvert and exploit.

I'd be more interested in fatalities per million miles driven than million vehicles on the road.
Thank you BRUCE !!!! I drive a 2002 F350 superduty with a utility bed with 120+k miles on it , in 15 years I have been "run in to" Twice , both times the driver said they didn't see me comeing , both times THEY paid to fix my truck .
You HAVE to look beyond the next telephone pole , remember " where would I go if some body did some thing stupid "
Besids , my truck weighs slightly ( about -20 lbs ) less than 10,000 lbs , it don't stop quick and it don't go quick , if'n a jetta does something stupid in front of me I will just squach them . Oh and i also drive our Test Truck weighing in at 63,000+ lbs .

Wouldn't a minivan do the job with better mileage? You could wear a disguise.

Hey! I resemble that remark! As far as I'm concerned, the minivan is the perfect vehicle, and I am utterly baffled why people think they're so uncool.

I'm sure the uncool minivan :) image has nothing to do with you, Clod.

I think it would be great to have a zippy little car or a Wrangler as a back up vehicle, for the rare occasion I don't have 2 or 3 passengers. I love my Jeep GC though, and will be replacing it with same when the time comes.

Face it, you're getting a Pathfinder, and you'll learn to like it.

Nope. Only comes in a v6 and there aren't enough bells and whistles despite it being redesigned and supposedly less trucky. The Murano jim has now is 'ok'. Doesn't handle appreciably better than the Jeep though. More HP but it's so slow to accelerate... needs more torque. The constant velocity thing is pretty cool, but again, I'd rather be able to stomp on the pedal and pass someone.

Well I'ma lease one of them Zs. All I need is to make a little more money. OK a lot.

Is Nissan taking a beating on the new Valdez class pickups and SUVs? It seems like they picked a bad time to get into the absurdly over-size market.

People should be able to choose whatever they want to drive but I don't buy the SUV as station wagon arguement. Pete's Impreza rocks in the snow so I assume the larger AWD wagons handle well. My Nissan 4x4 is better for deep snow but the Subaru is a much more flexible vehicle. Most of my siblings and in-laws with kids have gone the van and SUV route but I've never needed to haul that much stuff with the girls. My bro-in-law gives me crap for not having a van for hauling kid stuff but what do you need that doesn't fit in a hatchback or trunk?

*edit* This sounds like sniping but I really don't know why the big vehicles are necessary or even desirable since they handle for shit. A real reply rather than a flame would be appreciated. If you live in a suburbia why a 4x4? I live where people go on the vacations they justify their 4x4 for and outside of hauling farm/construction stuff I don't need a 4x4.

griff,

The only reason I can see for having one of those BIGASS SuV's like the suburban or the Armada (drove one, hated it) is the third row of seats. Jinx's jeep is perfect for our lifestyle. I can fill it with groceries, kids, strap the kayaks to the roof, and go drive through the woods, plus it handles like a car, gets to 60mph in 7.xx seconds, and I don't have to plow my driveway when it snows.

In our opinion, minivans are safer because they sap the joy out of driving. they are infinitely useable, get good mileage, and handle decently......but most people that drive them are much more likely to stay in the slow lane and get there safely.....

many of these stats begin with what kind of drivers buy theses vehicles. minivan drivers are generally more interested in safety, so it stands to reason that they drive more carefully. sports car buyers are more likely to be good drivers that take joy in the performance, and get emotionally involved with their car......much more likely to be acutely aware of their surroundings when driving. SUV buyers tend to range from soccer moms to extreme sport yuppies. that large a slice of the populous has varrying degrees of driving skill, and therefore, a mixed bag of accident probabilities get lumped up together. I think it all comes down to the driver. If you can;t handle a 4 door sedan without banging into the gas pump, you shouldn;t be out buying an SUV because they do better in an accident, you should take a cab.

Toad, I have a 300ZX for sale if you want one, cheap!

Cars & pickups. :smack:
Is it possible to buy a one today w/out all the damn whistles & bells? I have a 78 ford pu w/over 200k miles on it. Radio & heater. A damn Dakato 99 w/a bunch of crap, also new front end w/less than 30k miles & 16 MPG. I can read a map, why do I need GPS? If I don't know where I'm going I leave early. Not that I ever go anywhere. I also know to keep gas in the damn thing, please no dings. Air in tires, change oil, just found out that's a no no.Warranty is void!
How about a plain old vehical, one that years ago you could open doors & wash the thing out?

I washed my car like that yesterday buster. Left the sunroof open and it rained buckets. It's all good today though - heated seats even still work.
The wrangler actually has a drain on the floor...

LJ, absolutely! :thumbsup: Too bad the Feds and CA state can't understand that. It's the truth but the bane of actuarial tables.

Jinx, a couple rounds through the floor should handle any water. :)

I've got a Miata (not listed) and an Outback. Despite what the table says, the outback is NOT a compact! Sheesh!

I'm guessing the Town Car is up there in driver deaths because of heart attacks and strokes rather than any quality of the vehicle.

They're thinking of after Zippy runs his F-350 into you. :eek:

I'm betting most of the Town Cars are rental cars, racking up mileage and hours.

I agree with Jinx and LJ... I have a 99 Jeep GC Limited 4x4 v8 and absolutely love it...the ONLY thing I don't love about it is the bad mileage. Love the V8 power and the GC is nibble enough that if (and this is the real issue here) *you are paying attention* to the cars moving around you, you can keep yourself out of trouble. I have avoided lots of accidents by being fairly alert, not acting like the typical driver these days who spends more time talking on the cell phone or yelling at the kids in the back than driving the car.

Used the 4x4 capabilities a lot in CT where I lived for the last 4 years and plan to use it more pulling a boat soon in FL. Also used it to pull stumps up in P'cola after hurricane Ivan for family.

Pretty funny that my only complaint is the mileage and what does Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge do? Put a HEMI in it for 2005. (and yes, I am very embarrassed to admit that I am tempted!!)

FD

found a picture of the stump pulling .... (and yes, a 4x4 truck would do just as well but it would not let me seat 4 and haul their suitcases in the back while it is raining outside ... unless it is a F-350 and gets the same mileage as my Jeep).

Yeah,I gotta admit the boat towing would be hard with C4 Plastique. :)

Pardon my ignorance about such subjects as stump pulling ...

But why does the stump appear to be leaning opposite the direction of pull? Unless you were using a big elastic band to pull the stump and when it came free, the car flipped over it and miraculously landed on it's feet like a one ton cat, I don't see how that works out like that ...

I think that the pictured acivity is actually stump pushing. The strap shown is heavily starched to give it surprising stiffness. The Jeep is backed up slowly, and the stump pops out like a cork.

Whenever I get surprising stiffness, I'm always up for a little stump pushing. Cough.

I wondered if anyone would catch that little fact... :) well, the stump in question was kinda well anchored ...as trees usually are. So you pull the stump one direction to break more roots on the other side of the stump, then unhook, go to the other side and pull some more....if I had a HV maybe I could have just pulled it out in one clean pull but not so with my GC.
This pic shows the stump being bent back the way I was pulling...eventually the sucker came out. The tree in question was about a 70 year old pecan tree...sorry to see it go.

FD

We pulled out bushes in front of our house like that--with a minivan. :)

Little hint for stump pullers, just wrap the chain or strap around the stump so it twists on the way out, breaking the roots.

Looks like interesting wood, FDragon. Lots of color variation. :)

I'm thinking there are probably some really good burls in them thar roots.

Bet there are ... kinda felt bad not using the wood for something constuctive. Unfortunately no one in the area there that I know is into wood working. Even something as simple as firewood is out as pecan pops and burns poorly. Plus there is lots of oak trees down so plenty of firewood for all.

Here is another shot of the logs we were dragging around.


FD

Now wait just one sec , you were useing a jeep to drag that log around when you had a perfictly good dodge TRUCK sitting there ??????

The truck was too wimpy...my Jeep is better. :p

I couldn't get through that entire article. A little dry for my taste. zzzzzzzzz.

Sure, you can drive whatever vehicle you want, and some people need larger vehicles for kids, work, whatever. I just get bugged when I see a solo driver in his 12-mile-per-gallon Lincoln Navigator sucking up gas and driving up prices for the rest of us. And I can't stand how some SUV drivers behave in parking lots. They're driving a 4WD vehicle that was designed to go off road, yet they crawl over speedbumps in grocery story parking lots. Yes you should slow down, but a speedbump does not mean STOP--don't worry, a little speed bump won't damage your $50,000 gas guzzler.

Don't be too sure. :lol:

spent the thanksgiving holiday in Pensacola and was pulling stumps again.

Need a bigger tow strap...that one was 17,000 lb breaking strength and I broke it. :mad:

and finally out of the ground...

I take it that the movie theater and the arcade closed down?