Pride
 

Typical conversation I have with customers at work:

Customer: Do you carry this brand? I don't see any on the shelves.

Me: No sir we do not carry that brand.

Customer: I think you should check, I've seen it here before.

Me: Sir, that brand is made by a rival company, we have never carried their products.

(repeat lines 4 and 5 with customer progressivley getting louder as if I am not really hearing him/her)

Customer: LET ME TALK TO YOUR MANAGER! I'M GOING TO HAVE YOU fired/disiplined/re-assisinged/given a clue.

This conversation and others like it happen quite often. It gets me thinking that biggest problem with people, bar none, is too much pride. No one will admit their wrong, even if their proven wrong in a undisputable and friendly manner. In a situation like the example above I have noticed that offering alternatives solutions yields the customer simply repeating himself/herself, as if he's waiting for me to break down and say:

"Your right, I'm wrong, we have a secret stash in the back for people who challenge the sales staff."

Its not just retail people that deal with this either. Im sure we have all seen people fight irrational claims to the bitter end. Hell, I've even done it myself. Getting into arguements and later wondering what on earth I was trying to prove.

This happens frequently in relationships too. I have seen several intelligent, level-headed people go through relationship after relationship not realizing that their ability to let go of pride and compromise is what's causing all of the problems. Suffice to say, the one dissatisfying thing in all their relationships is themselves.

I have always believed that one of the keys to cultural enlightenment is to let go of pride, examine ourselves, and admit that we a wrong. At the rate we are all going, it looks like an impossibility (especially here in the United States).

Any thoughts or comments? I consider myself pretty self-aware of my faults but a debate might prove otherwise.

It's like poker, once the stakes rise noone wants to back down. Intelligence and so called 'emotional intelligence' don't always go hand in hand.

In such a situation (sales) half the fault lies with out, yes, they're an asshole but you've got to learn to absorb, avoid and deflect. Give ground and give them a way to back down without losing face. If you're big enough to do that you're halfway to winning the battle.

I've see A&R guys thrown millions in marketing money away on a CD that everyone knew was a miserable failure musically, simply because no one had the stones to step up and admit that they’d made a mistake in signing the band. Again, too much pride.

-sm

I disagree, I will not allow myself to be turned into a liar because some putz is too stupid to read. It's happened plenty of times in my past, hence my long work history.

Fuck their pride.

Conversely, on more than one occasion I've been more than willing to flex with a customer who was willing to admit they were wrong. People who are willing to bend get plenty of help from me.

Jaguar and SM make good points. No one wants to look like an idiot and a measured response is generally the best way to go. On the other hand:

To get out of these situations I generally just lie and say what they want to hear: "We no longer carry that brand but this also might work...". It can be a big challenge to try reasoning with, for example, elderly people who think your just a young punk disrespecting them. No one seems to read tone these days.

In a non-retail setting there are truly people who are very set in their ways and will not even entertain alternate ideas. If someone presents me with an idea contrary to my own I always make the effort to understand where their coming from and see how well the idea stands on its own.

In a perfect world we would all weigh each others ideas and opinions equally but this world is anything but. To use myself as an example: I would say I know quite a bit about building computers to suit peoples needs. There are so many ways to go about building a computer that quite a few of the methods balance out in terms of stability and bang for the buck. When I find myself in a debate with other computer builders that use different methods than I do I often refuse to admit fault. Both methods have their good and bad points but this goes out the window when computer savy people debate. I consider myself enlightened but far from fully.

By far the worst people to debate with are the elderly. These people are so set in their ways that it makes debate with them pointless. You can have a near-flawless arguement only to have an elderly person completely ignore it and accuse you of lacking wisdom or just repeat their arguement over and over. I've met a few older people who embrace new ideas and are willing to debate but not many.

I guess my point is that people are so resistant to ideas contrary to their own that it brings out the most stupidity in them. What we really need is mandatory relationship training in schools. But then again, how effective would this be going up against people's basic nature and their homelife?

Personally I think the world would benefit if we were all intellectuals, but thats just my opinion.

I'm just simply tired of capitulating to the gammas.

I've done retail, IT and tech support for an ISP. The stupid people have go to go.

It's the willful ignorance that galls me most.

gamma: "Hey John, you work on computers right?"

Me: "Yeah..."

gamma: "Which one do you recommend?"

Me: "For you I'd go with an EMachine. Decent product, decent price."

gamma: "I heard they were a piece of shit!"

Me: "No, I had one for several years and I've heard no complaints form the people I know who have them."

gamma: 'I'm not buying that, it's a piece of shit."

Me: "Then why'd you ask you fucking dolt?"

Lather, rinse, repeat...

I suppose it would be nice if the general intelligence of the population at large were somewhat higher, but I don't think that this alone would solve the problem. History is filled with examples of people who were highly intelligent, yet had an emotional IQ of about 3, and the people around them suffered accordingly. In my own case, I like to think of myself as being intelligent enough, but I have done some really stupid things, acting purely out of emotion. In many of these instances I even knew at the time that I was not acting in the brightest possible manner, but I went ahead anyhow. The distance from the head to the heart, you know?

I think when it comes to pride, we're talking self-esteem as much as anything. Some people are just too damn afraid to admit that they might have been wrong, because then they're afraid everyone will think they're stupid like that kid they went to third grade with who got F's in every subject and had to repeat the third grade all over again, and everybody made fun of him and by God, I am not like that!

I think some people also feel so powerless in the rest of their lives that when they see a chance to get one over on someone else, they just jump right at it, and you could be Albert Einstein, but if you are in a position of waiting on that customer, you're going to get it with both barrels, regardless. I once worked a brief stint as one of the switchboard operators at a luxury 5 star hotel. We had to be polite, no matter what, or loose our jobs. Switchboard operators in a place like that are perfect targets. They're nameless, faceless, working for not much over the minimum wage, sitting in a windowless basement room while the caller is wealthy (by definition you had to be to stay at that place - George Bush stays there when he comes to town) and the caller can have you fired if he chooses to complain enough. Sample conversation:

Me: Switchboard, to where may I direct your call, sir (ma'am)?

Guest: I want to find a highway map of Colorado that shows how I can drive through the state without going over any mountains.

Me: (Realizing I've got a "live" one on my hands) I see. Would you like me to put you through to the concierge office? They usually can help our guests with their travel plans.

Guest: No! I've already spoken to that idiot you people hired to put in the
Con See ER Age office, and the damned fool told me that there was no such route. The man is incompetant and, believe me, the hotel management will be hearing about him!

Me: Yes, Sir. I'm sorry you were dissatisfied with our service in that area. Perhaps, you would like me to connect you with the local AAA office, then?

Guest: Obviously, I've already spoken to them, you idiot, and they were as worthless as your Con See ER Age. They said said the best I could do was I-70 which goes right over Vail Pass and my wife is terrified of mountains. She'd have a heart attack before we were even half way across.

Me: (Wondering what the hell this idiot and his neurotic wife have come to Colorado for if they don't like mountains) I'm sorry you are having so much difficulty, Sir. Just where would you like me to direct your call, then?

Guest: YOU'Re the one who's supposed to know that. You're the switch board operator, aren't you?

Me: (Visualizing Lily Tomlin - "one ringy ding, two ringy dingy...") Yes, Sir, you have reached the hotel switchboard. (by this time I am so enraged over this man's stupidity and rude behavior, I no longer care). Perhaps, you might like for me to give you the route that we locals most often use?

Guest: I knew there was a better route! What is it?

Me: Do you have a pen, Sir? (sniggering inwardly)

Guest: Yes! Yes! Tell me what it is.

Me: OK. Take highway 24 to Buena Vista, then highway 82 to Carbondale from there you'll take highway 133 to Hotchkiss, then 92 and 149 to South Fork where you'll pick up 160 to Durango. Stay on 160 to Teec Nos Pos, New Mexico, and you'll be out of Colorado, safe and sound.

Guest: No Vail Pass?

Me: Oh, I promise you, no Vail Pass.

Guest: Well, its about time I got some information out of somebody in this 3rd rate flop house! (click!)

I then spent the rest of my shift barely able to contain my laughter over having sent this "gentleman" and his wife over Colorado's highest mountain roads and 4 most trecherous passes, including Wolf Creek and Rabbit Ears Pass and having them end up in the most God forsaken part of New Mexico known to man. This is a true story, and to this very day, I don't feel the least bit guilty about it!

In a retail, sales or support setting it's fuck your pride, you're being paid to be nice to people and sell them stuff, not point out when they're wrong. Don't like it? Tough, change jobs.

It doesn't matter what you do, the same skills are essential. Even if you don't have to interact with customers you will with other staff, maybe suppliers, engage in contract negotiations, external contracters etc. Whenever you're dealing with people if you're smart enough to deal with the properly you'll come out on top.

Maybe these people have been cheated, flim-flamed and generally screwed so many times they are wary of your "creativity". Also, when they're on a fixed income, they're decisions are more critical and ability to recover from mistakes very difficult, if not impossible.
They've probably talked to everyone they know and trust and have an idea of what they want. You said yourself, there are many different ways to put a machine together and some people as knowledgeable as yourself, disagree with your approach.
WARNING! WARNING! DANGER, Will Robinson. Person describing themselves as an intellectual. WARNING. DANGER.
If everyone was an intellectual, nothing would get done because they all think they're right and will debate everything, forever. :p

Because I was dealing with the entry window (and therefore near the lobby door) tonight, I had more interaction than usual with one of my coworker's patients.

DRUNK: I demand to see another doctor!

WOLF: There isn't another doctor.

DRUNK: What the hell do you mean?

WOLF: I mean that at night we have one evaluating doctor.

DRUNK: He MOCKED me.

WOLF: Ma'am, you are very intoxicated. You are likely misinterpreting your interaction with the doctor.

DRUNK: No, he FUCKING MOCKED ME.

WOLF: I heard you the first time.

DRUNK: I came here for help. You are not helping me. I demand to speak to your supervisor.

WOLF: There isn't one on this shift.

DRUNK: What the fuck do you mean?

WOLF: Just that. There is no supervisor here.

She was pretty much dumbfounded by that ... the notion that workers could work without having a supervisor was a new one on her, apparently. She actually continued ranting for another hour or so.

I am always right. Why pretend I'm wrong just to appease some arrogant halfwit? Discussion is about WINNING. Taking part means shit. It's all about me, anyway. You are but a pickup for my noise, and what you say is at best irrelevant, and mostly just an irritating scratching that never fucking gives up. Shoot 'em all, I say.

oh discussion and debate are a whole different situation, particularly real debate where the whole aim is to verbally rip out their spine and ram it up their asshole. In a dignified, respectful manner though logical and rational argument of course.

tee hee. Just call me Dr Eeevil. No, Madam Eeevil. Jag you can be Dr Eeevil. Don't mess with Eeevil I say.

(Oh dear I really should be doing some work)

Hence the well-known phrase "diplomacy is the art of letting people have your way [and their spine up their ass]"..

diplomacy is convincing them to rip out their best friend's spine and shove it up their own ass. It's also very, very enjoyable.

I must have missed that well-known phrase Kev. Maybe you only get to hear it within an hour of London.

You're such a sadist... ;)

you've never heard that?
only on special occasions

Oh, I'm not within an hour of London. Whatever gave you that idea?

*gd&r*

Well, not unless I drive much too fast.

Jag - enjoyable, mayhap. But short-lived... they're rapidly going to run out of best friends, and then you'll have no sport.

all depends on what your sport is really doesn't it?

no.

such as?

This.

now I think about it, most days of the week *sighs*

that makes two of us. But you're right, it is very enjoyable.

Pah. Don't believe everything you read.

:)

I won't believe that then. ;)

Mari, I can totally relate to your switchboard recount. *raises glass in comradere*

I've always been a firm believer that the customer is NOT always right. I never worked retail (counting my blessings here) but I have worked in food service. Once, for two months and never again. EVER. I also worked for a call center for a couple of years during college as an 800# operator. I have more gripes about the idiocy I encountered on the phone during that time than I'd care to fully recount, but my BIGGEST gripe is the people who call the 800 numbers and just assume they're talking to someone who's working at that company and in that company's building. And then there's the ones you wonder what seething, festering pit did they crawl out of just to give you a hard time?

I once had a call from a guy who had ordered a VA ham with some other foodstuffs and was calling to complain that it was spoiled when he got it. He was livid so there was far more incoherent fuming ire coming out of his mouth than there was helpful information that I could use to see if I could determine what happened. I asked him when he ordered and what his delivery instructions were. Those two questions took a least a few minutes to get answers to, this guy was so mad. Long story short, I found out that he had ordered the food and had regular delivery, no express or anything, and knew regular delivery for him would take 3-5 business days. Then he went on vacation for 2 weeks the day after ordering the food. And this is in the summer and he lived in SC. Needless to say, that ham was good and ripe by the time he got home. But, of course, his mis-timed order was all my fault because I should have known that he was going away for 2 weeks and that I should have put a delay on the shipment of his order, even though I wasn't the one who took his bloody order in the first place, but that didn't matter because I was the one talking to him now so I am the one responsible for his lost $24.95 and how is he going to get his money back, he had a sound mind to ship the rotten thing right back to me and call the BBB because we here at the call center couldn't read his bloody mind and figure out he was going on his bloody vacation and no one would be there to pick up the bloody ham and...

This one still sets my hair on end, if you couldn't tell.

I worked in a cafe for awhile, attached to a very arrogant hippie organic food store. The place was very low-key, you picked your own food up at the counter when your little pager went off, and the building was basically an unfinished warehouse.

You would not *believe* how many complaints we got from people who didn't like using the little ketchup packets. Apparently only a bottle was good enough for their overpriced granola asses. We explained to them that in fact the bottles were a health hazard because people didn't eat ketchup enough, so they would spoil (and even explode, which was what prompted us to switch in the first place.) Didn't matter.

One woman asked me how other fine restaurants seemed to manage it then. I politely asked her how many "fine restaurants" she knew of that sold $6 hamburgers and made you bus your own tables. She asked me why the hell she shouldn't just go to McDonald's then. I told her (still in my most professional tone) that McDonald's didn't have nearly the variety of vegan options on their menu, nor did they offer free-range beef and organic lettuce and tomatoes.

Ultimately a manager actually sat there and squirted a half dozen packets onto a plate and handed it to her.

Far be it from me to sympathise with the (L)users, but I can't help but be on the customer's side on this one. I get OH SO SICK of calling people to deal with something, only to find I'm in fact talking to someone else.

Me: Hi, is that ACME, Inc?
CS Agent: Hi, yeah. My name's Steve. How can I help you?
Me: Well, I've got a question about such-and-such a service. I ordered it, and it seems to have arrived, but it's not quite X or Y.
CS Agent: Ah, right. Yeah. We've heard that a lot.
Me: Oh. Okay.. well, what's the answer?
CS Agent: I'm really not sure.
Me: Ohhkay. Could you possibly ask someone else?
CS Agent: No, I'm sorry, I can't.
(20 minutes go by)
CS Agent: I don't actually work for ACME Inc. I'm in a different building, in a different part of the country. I'm afraid I can't walk over to Tech Support and ask them for you, and I can't put you through.

Now, maybe I'm being unreasonably picky here, but I didn't choose to call CSC-co, and I did try to call ACME Inc. I don't think it's wholly unreasonable to expect that when I call a company on the number they advertise, I'll get someone who actually works for them. Or, at the very least, someone who knows someone who actually works for them. Or even, failing that, someone who knows a phone number for someone who actually works for them and can put me through or make a call on my behalf.

It's like my bank; I call my branch on an 0870 number. For the 'merkins among us, that's a number which is long-distance (but domestic) no matter where in the country you dial from. I'm ringing my branch because I'd like to speak to them about something related to my account. Which is held at that branch. Still with me?

So why, oh why would my bank think I'd like to talk to some central call centre, then? I specifically went to the trouble of looking up my local branch's number. And then, to add insult to injury, the call centre people can't do certain stuff. They have to connect me - get this - to my branch.

Am I so unreasonable?

Kev

That IS the flip side of the coin, Kev. I guess these outfits feel it saves them money to have one call center for the entire country. I recently got a little money and decided to order cable service for my TV. Well, the cable company which services my area in Colorado has its call center out of Pennsylvania somewhere. I live in a funny little mountain town where the addresses can be hard to find. You cannot call the local offices of the company, only the 800 number. The technician who was supposed to connect my cable could not find my house, so I called the 800 number and gave this person on the East Coast directions to my home which she then relayed to the local technician sitting in his truck about 6 blocks from my home. Needless to say, it was a real comedy trying to give local directions to someone who had never even heard of the town I live in, had no idea what I was referring to when I mentioned local landmarks, and then passed my information on to the technician in some garbled form. :eyebrow:

Oh I can totally understand the customer's side of situations but I don't have to like the way they treated me. I'm a customer myself and who isn't? To that end, when I'm on hold, say for helpdesk, I try to be as patient as I can mainly because I've been the person who has to take those calls. I know I'm not the only person they've had to deal with today and I know I'm not the only problem. I've found that even overworked and had-it-up-to-here operators tend to be a bit less cynical, a bit nicer and more helpful when they realize I know what they're going through. A while ago, I was on the help line with Gateway for over 3 hours once in the 1am timeframe. My computer was being a tard and nothing the guy was telling me to do was working. But, he and I were just chatting away between reboots and such like buddies, all candid and talking about all kinds of stuff. I knew my computer being stupid had nothing to do with him and he even told me he appreciated me not being a butt, especially since it was taking sooo long and it was really late, because he had dealt with them for his whole shift and was very tired of them all. We had a good Windows roast that night! :D

That's just it, Cyber. A little understanding and decency can go a long way. You and I have been on the opposite end of the firing line, so we know what its like and can treat people decently if they'll only give us half a chance to do so. There have been times when I have been totally enraged by the actions of some entity and I'll get on the phone with some poor smuck in customer service. The first thing I'll say is, "Look, I understand that you are not personally responsible for this, but I am very upset over this thing and can you help me resolve it?" I get a much better response that way.

When I was fighting Social Security I had to call their office of hearings and appeals which just so happens to be located in my town.

Clerk: Office of hearings and appeals. May I help you?

Me: No. I understand that you can't help me. Your job is to field calls from the desperate and the dying while your supervisers take 3 hour lunches over there at McKenna's (a posh restaurant directly across from where the social security hearings office is located). I need for you to put me through to someone who just got back from lunch at McKenna's.

Clerk: (stunned silence for a moment) You are quite correct. Let me put you through to Judge X's legal assistant. I believe she just came back in.

Worked like a charm. ;)

Things like admitting fault, taking responsibility, and conceding a point are rare things in today's "society of victims." It is so rare, that I have seen reactions of genuine surprise from people (mostly in the workplace) due to my willingness to admit when I am mistaken, or when I screwed up. Strangely, my openness about my mistakes has won me a lot of respect at work, where those who are convinced that they are always right win a bit of disdain. Irony at work, at work.

Hell Goddamned YEAH Marichiko!!! I LOVE IT! That's what the hell he gets!!! Heh, sorry I'm all about the revenge factor if someone has acted like a complete turd towards me, and you served it up well! :thumpsup: :D

I should mention that this was a couple jobs ago... at my current job, I'm still in the long process of proving myself and my abilities. Just trying to be noticed amidst the noise.