Punishment is futile
 

This nearly made me cry.

The ability to show such humanity in the face of sheer emotional trauma, and the recognition that punishment is futile.

People lose clarity when someone is attacked, calling immediately for the perpetrator to be destroyed. When will we realise we have no more right to be here than any other creature? Thank god there are some people who realise how stupid and arrogant it is to return like for like. This relates back to every punishment issue I can think of. I know a lot of you disagree with me on this one, but if this family can show some sense, why can't you?

While I disagree with you on most of the points you stated, I agree with the family in that killing the sharks is pointless.

A sharks gotta eat, right mate?

To a shark, a person is just a funny looking fish, or a seal maybe.

I agree...there is no way the particular shark responsible can be accurately identified. Even so, the attack was not malicious, it was instinct. People swinning look and sound a LOT like a wounded seal or injured fish; a shark's favorite prey. Sharks don't normally eat humans because we don't taste good and are bony compared to the yummy fish and mammals in the sea.

When we enter the ocean, we lose our place at the top of the food chain and enter a world in which we are ill-suited to survive. One, in fact, that is hostile to us and our well-being. Sharks are the superpredators of the oceans and swim at or close to the top of the food chain whereas we humans are several rungs down.

Hunting and killing the shark who attacked the surfer is an act of revenge, pure and simple. It will not deter other sharks from doing the same thing. The shark will not regret it's actions. I doubt it even remembers anymore. Sharks lack higher reasoning skills and the capacity to understand cause and effect. They can't even see well. They identify prey by (unfortunately) biting it. Yes, they can track blood unerringly to it's source over vast distances and sense electrical currents produced by living things to an amazing degree, but they have the brain capacity of a worm.

I vote we leave the sharks alone, post warnings about their presence for the surfers and swinners, and quit watching Jaws.

Brian

Who needs Jaws when we've got "Shark Week" every year on cable? Unerringly on the week my family heads to the beach.

People NEED to realize that when you put yourself in the environment of wild animals then you put yourself at risk, regardless of your reason for being there, especially when you make yourself come off as appetizing or threatening to the animal(s) that live there. This is especially so when it comes to marine environments. The animals really can't hold the blame for doing what they do. Guilt and blame doesn't apply to them as it does to humans. The sea and its tenants are so alien compared to what humans can typically defend against/flee from, not to mention the comparative difficulty of a human moving through ocean surf than a sea critter.

Since colonisation over 200 odd years ago, there have been less than 200 deaths resulting from shark attacks in Australia. It's so rare it's not funny.

There is a theory which has to some extent been proven that sharks that attack people are more likely to do so again, which is the rationalisation I've heard used but there is no way to ID them and they're rare enough as it is.

The other factor is that there are a lot of things off Aussie waters that can kill you, jellyfish, sharks, various seashells, seasnakes and stonefish not to mention some truly evil currents and undertows that so many people are not only unaware of but have no idea how to escape from either. If you choose to jump in the ocean you're taking a risk, if you pull a short straw there is no logic in taking it out on the first animal of the same species that floats into the sights.

Taken to its logical conclusion, it's like threatening to drain the ocean because someone has drowned.

You cannot blame a shark for behaving like a shark.

There is a long tradition of going out to hunt the maneater ... but that pretty much only applies to the big cats, that will continue to prey on man once they figured out that we're pretty much defenseless and have less fur than their usual prey and so are easy to digest.

An idea that just came to mind was to consider what the equivalent predator on land is.

Any ideas people?

Raccoons... those bastards are vicious. :)

There's a strong argument for that.

Brains, hands, mask, yeah I can see that.

I'll go with polar bear.

They eat, they sleep, they make little bears. If you've seen the documentaries that include shots of the migration ... where people who own houses along the path have to stay indoors for days and have bars on their windows to keep the bears out, you'll see the similarity to the sharks.

Polar bears are cute and fuzzy, though, so people don't think of them with the same kind of fear that they do the sharks.

I happen to think sharks are cool.

Way cool.

I need to go to Baltimore Aquarium to stare at them again cool. (Last time I went I tricked my friends and their children into a wrong turn so I could go see them again!)

I bar my windows when the sharks come by too ;)
(I know what you mean..)

*Could've sworn I posted my reply earlier...guess not*


Actually, this is the part that had me puzzled:
""What we actually need is a public education campaign to teach people how to live with sharks," she said. "They are a fact of life, they rarely attack humans, but occasionally it does happen. Instead of avoiding the issue, let's start educating the public about it."

Why on earth would anyone want to purposely surf/live/swim among/deal with sharks outside of perhaps being a marine biologist? As much as I miss swimming in the ocean, I also know that there is too much danger in it for me to go back in it. I don't care how rare shark attacks are, the bottom line is this: they will freaking try to eat you if they see you and think you are food...period! I really think man needs to stop trying so hard to get up into the ass of Mother Nature all of the time and just stay safe!


When people stop swimming among sharks?

Well, if that works for you, great. However, that was the family's choice and I'm sure that some people have wondered why they chose to not have the sharks killed. I say that's their business, just like if I were to have choosen to say go ahead and kill them is MY business. It's not for anyone to wonder "why" and so forth.

And I'm going to leave it at that.

I've seen some interesting documentaries on polar bears.

There was this one guy who actually interacted with them as if he were a polar bear... and they reciprocated.

They seem to have a bit more intellect than sharks as well, or at least personality.

There seem to be wackos who think that swimming with sharks is a vacation destination. It's all the fault of the Discovery Channel, making them seem cuddly.

I've got a scuba licence and I know a fair few experienced divers. Most have had at least one shark experience ranging from seeing them having a nap on the bottom to curious grey nurse sharks circling around. If you spend enough time diving (and I don't) you wil come across them sooner or later. It's still safer than driving.

Well yes, it is other people's business. You're not going to go out there in a dingy with a .45 yourself and do it are you? They have to send out teams of people to scour large areas to kill a member of an endangered species so that someone can feel a sense of revenge.

{Christian} All the creatures and plants of the Earth are under the dominion of Man, to serve him as Man serves God. Therefore, Man may do as it pleases with these lesser creations. {/Christian}

It really isn't all that difficult to find the source of mankind's arrogance about Mother Earth and her children, IMHO. Oh...and there's a lot of other bad stuff that occurs sociologically because of that same damn book and the people who have obviously misread it, but that's another thread.

Well, I don't anticipate doing any diving soon, so I'll take my chances driving because that's what I have to do to get around (and no public transit isn't an option for me because of my health, and those here who are in the Philly area know how f***ed up SEPTA is). ;)

Erm what I meant was that it's my business how I would feel about the matter, what I would have wanted to have happen and that people need to stop wondering the "why" about every little thing in the world.

"Why ask why" isn't just a ad slogan.

It looks to me like everyone here has overlooked the obvious.


If Bradley Smith had equipped himself with a sensible defensive handgun, he would not have been harmed. He may have been able to host one helluva beach party with a skewered shark rotating over a crackling fire as well.

It seems his lack of preparedness in this regard has caused sorrow and discomfort to not only himself, but also to the community overall. Sad.

We all can learn something from this tragedy though. The accessability and use of a well suited personal defense handgun can be a lifesaver in a wide range of life's everyday situations, even surfing.

My point was that staying out of the oceans is not really an answer. People that bait sharks on the other hand deserve what they get, or lose as the case may be.

I think I misinterpreted what you said, my bad.

You're just trying to agitate against Undertoad.

Heh, staying out of the ocean works for me: haven't been biten by a shark ever. :D

Fuggitaboutit.
;)

WE all take risks every day we are alive. Even just crossing a street means that we are risking being hit by an out of control truck or a drunk driver. If we decide to take an airplane, there's a risk it might crash. If we get in our cars, there's a risk we might have an accident. Swimming in the ocean or walking in the wood is no different. I think its foolish to take it out on the animals. We know that they may be there, we access the possibilities, and take the risk. I agree that its pointless to go around killing sharks. They'll never figure out which ones were responsible for the attack, anyhow.

I go out in the back country often, and the animal which concerns me the most around here is the cougar. When it comes to cougars, there are no good statistics on "repeat offenders." Generally, a cougar which kills a human is hunted down and destroyed. There are a couple of instances where the animal was caught and relocated and never attacked anyone again. Most cougars which attack people are either yearlings who have not found a hunting territory of their own or animals which are sick. 80% of all cougar attacks were found to have been carried out by under weight animals. When I'm in cougar country, I take certain precautions. I avoid activities at dawn or dusk - a cougar's prime hunting hours. I avoid acting like prey - jogging in the woods, etc. I carry mace, and I know that if I encounter a cougar, I need to act like a predator - jump on a rock if possible, shout, throw rocks, and wave my arms around while looking at the cougar the entire time. Cougars don't really consider humans to be a tasty treat, and would much prefer to go eat a nice deer or elk. You need to remind them of this if you encounter one. The worst possible thing to do is to act like prey and try to run from one. They're too fast anyhow. It's damn hard to out pace a cougar.

If I ever were to be killed by one, I'd just as soon Fish and Wildlife let it go unless it was proved to be a threat to other humans. Its a risk, but its a very small one. I'll take my chances and accept the consequences if I loose through my own foolishness.

Hmmmm ....

Shark attacks tend to happen off the coast of Australia.

And New Jersey.

And California.

All places where one can't equip oneself with a sensible defensive handgun ...

Oh my god.

The sharks are behind gun control.

Run!!

Run for your lives!!!!

My thing is there are risks that one *HAS* to take, and those that people voluntarily CHOOSE to take. Driving (at least for me) is something I MUST do in order to get around on a daily basis. Swimming in the ocean full of dangerous animals is something I do not HAVE to do, nor does anyone else for that matter. It's something they WANT to do. After a car accident, nobody is asking, "Well why was she even driving?" but I'm sure that many people, after hearing the news, have asked, "Well why was that young man surfing around a bunch of sharks???"

Wolf was right by saying:
There seem to be wackos who think that swimming with sharks is a vacation destination. It's all the fault of the Discovery Channel, making them seem cuddly.

Don't get it. :confused:

There's a lot that I don't get, including some of the more extreme piercings and bungie jumping.

Wolf, is there a waterproof gun on the market that he could have kept in a little wetsuit holster, or would he really have had to be on a boat to shoot the shark?

there are guns that fire underwater but they're more like mini rocket launchers than guns.

So really what he needed was a little personal-sized harpoon?

I want one!

bwhahahahaha! i just had this mental image of the sharks from Finding Nemo sitting around plotting. "ok, we're gonna run this planet some day, but first we have to get rid of the guns those landdwellers love. second, let's use our global weather chaos device to make it really warm so they all come into the water, then they are ours!!!ours i tell you, wipe out the humans and no one can stop us!!!THE WHOLE WORLD WILL SOON BE OURS AND THEN WE WILL START THROWING OUR WASTE ONTO THE LAND TO SEE HOW THEY LIKE IT!!! *evil laugh*

Waterproof gun: "Amphibious" Glock. There are plugs that will keep water out of some of the more important bits. Special training is recommended, and there is apparently a greater danger of hearing loss because of the way water transmits sound. You can get the plugs on ebay for under $20, but they should be installed by a certified Glock Armorer.

What you really need for a shark is a bang stick. You poke the shark with it and it fires a shotgun shell that's at the end of it and it either stuns or kills the shark.

IIRC, he got eaten by them.

Just checked. He did, and it was Alaska, but it was brown bears.

No problem, one of my friends just bought a 45-70, you could shoot across New Jersey...

I have eaten freshly caught shark and it tasts disgusting.