having some serious cpu issues
 

Alright, jokers, riddle me this:

I bought a Dell Dimension 4600 w/ P4 2.8 ghz, 800 mhz FSB, 256 MB RAM (I know, I know, I have a Dell, that's my first problem).

So about three or four weeks ago, I started up the computer and it wouldn't boot up. It powered up, and I could hear the fan blowing, but there's no signal to monitor, no power to peripherals (mouse, keyboard, USB wireless adapter, mem card reader).

Forced a shut down and tried to boot up maybe 5 or 6 more times. Finally it booted up as normal and worked fine.

Next time it wouldn't start up. Or the next time. Or the time after that.

The thing is, if I leave the computer in the stalled power-on mode for 5 or so minutes, it will boot itself up.

The Dell diagnostic lights in the rear say it's a memory problem. I ordered new RAM (which should be here, uh, yesterday), but I don't think that's the problem.

The motherboard power light is on, so it's being powered. Someone suggested that the board or the processor might be fried, but why would the computer work then? Is that possible?

My built-in network adapter, however, does NOT work. It shows both lights (green and orange), but does not pick up signals from my cable modem. I ran Time Warner's set-up CD and the diag program says it can't pick up a connection.

What's going on here? Is my computer totally fucked? I don't think any critical parts are broken, otherwise the effin' thing wouldn't start up.

Someone please spare me of my troubles!

-bn

Re: having some serious cpu issues
 

Hmmm... a long shot.. and I've drunk a bit :beer: so take it for what it's worth! .... If your ethernet adapter really seems to be hosed, try turning it off in the BIOS menus and see what happens. If it supports Wake-On-LAN and it's messed up I suppose it's remotely possible something's going on....

Oh, and call Dell and tell them to send you a new computer.

Oh, and why do think it's not a memory problem?

should find everything you need to solve your problems here.

-sm

Veeerrrrry funny ...

I should go back to Macs. Loved them ... from a IIe, to a Classic, to a Performa, to one of the early Power Macs (7100, I think).

I really wanted a G3 Cube, but I couldn't get my hands on one before they discontinued them.

But you're not helping my situation. Go sit in the corner. :P

Re: having some serious cpu issues
 

That motherboard light reports little that is useful. LED may be powered, but not enough to permit computer to boot. That LED is only from one power supply - not the one that would power rest of computer (since a PSU is really two separate power supplies).

Without readings that provide numbers, then you don't know if the PSU is working. If PSU is marginal, then everything else can appear intermittent or failed - including memory.

You are wildly speculating instead of seeking irrefutible facts. Were Dell comprehensive hardware diagnostics executed? What is reported in the system's event logs. Until voltage measurements are taken on DC power outputs, then you have no idea if the PSU is completely good or completely defective. A defective (intermittent) supply can make anything else appear to be failed.

Further information was posted previously in:
Let's play "what part is failing?"

In the meantime, this would be a new system - completely covered by warranty. Why are you fixing it?

Pay $30 for a new power supply, if that doesn't solve your problem (it very well might), call Dell, if they give you crap..accept it, they are Dell and will do things there way damnit.

If all else fails turn to the cellar, we don't know shit about your problem but we will try to help.

Failing that..it sucks when your PC breaks down...just like it sucks when your car won't start. I'm not trying to be a hardass here, but those are the facts of life.

If its just flakey, or just old, buy a new one. If you're not tech savvy, get the 3 year warranty. Yes it is a scam, but where are you now without it?

And FWIW Dell actually makes pretty good PCs. Sorry you had bad luck with yours. Who you gonna turn to, Compaq? Whoop, HP bought em out.

I've been in IT for about 15 years, built myself a new one every few years. Broke down last year and bought an Averatec/Sotec laptop dirt cheap. Thing rocks, XP PRO installed,,,first pc I ever had that isn't failing on me semi-regularily. Keyboard is a little weak but I paid half for it.

2 cents, I feel your pain...try a new PS, then assess your sit, get the bastards from Dell on the phone, ream em, talk em into the mother of all upgrades because you're a loyal customer.

Re: Re: having some serious cpu issues
 

Yep. Put er back in the box and send er home.

Re: Re: having some serious cpu issues
 

Because I have faith in my ability to uncover whatever silliness is going on inside my box, and fix it for a relatively small cost, as opposed to lugging that fucker to a shipping store and having to wait 8 years for either a repaired or new unit to come back. Keep in mind I'm in NYC and I don't have the original box - and there aren't many shipping places near my apartment.

I bought the CPU for $425 - if the repairs go above $150-200, I may just can the piece of shit and buy something else.

And tw, I haven't run the diag yet - I just found the CD two days ago, but I haven't been able to get my computer booted up (even off the CD).

I just came here to try and get some ideas of what exactly is happening. I'm not an idiot and I understand how a computer works, but when it comes to the more complex stuff, give me a few minutes to catch up. :D

Does sound to me like something on your mobo is severly screwed.

Hmm ...

I did run the Time Warner install CD the other day, and the config test showed two alarming things:

a) no network connection was present (both with cable modem plugged into network and USB)

b) processor was reading at 275 mHz

Didn't notice a slow-down in performance though. Could those problems signal something wrong with a mobo connection?

It sounds like something has literally blown, I've seen it before. The fact that both the lights are on on the network connector suggests it's utterly borked.

What speed is the bios saying?
What about windows? Type dxdiag in the run command.

Haven't been able to get to BIOS because generally to get the computer booted up, I have to leave it in the stalled power-on state for at least 5 minutes before it cranks up. And by then I'm usually too late to catch the start-up screen.

Unless there's a way to access BIOS in DOS?

Not that I'm aware of, you might just have to wait for 5 minutes and catch it.

Put a book on the DEL key.

Hey, is it always exactly 5 minutes? If so that is VERY suspicious and I would imagine that the BIOS is timing out on something. Maybe it wants to boot from the network and is waiting for a network adapter that isn't ready or some weird thing like that.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking in suggesting disabling the onboard network.

But call Dell.... hold their feet to the fire.

I did call Dell late last week ... I tried to be very firm and pissed off about the problem, but the schmuck from India with whom I spoke didn't seem to understand my pissed-off-ness (nor did he speak very coherent english).

He had me repeat steps literally two or three times, but he was serious about it. As in he made it sound like we were trying something totally new each time.

This ridiculous interchange went on until he told me to disassemble the whole computer and only plug in the critical components. I suddenly got this feeling that if i followed the tech's instructions and fucked something up, Dell would somehow manage to screw me over and say my system is no longer covered.

Next time I am going to call back and pretend to be an idiot.

Oh, the horrors of outsourcing.

What you need to do is throw a party and invite your geekiest friends. At some point, before there have been more than three beers distributed to each geek, scratch your head and mention conversationally, "you know, I've been having this problem ..."

If you have chosen your geeks well, you will have all the remaining beer to yourself and just have to supply them occasionally with Twinkies and Chinese Food until your problem is resolved.

Well, this doesn't help breakingnews.... But our solution at work has been to start standardizing on IBM stuff, and become an IBM authorized warranty provider. They'll pay us to perform repairs on IBM equipment that's under warranty. There's a cost associated with it, but we only have to make 10 warranty repairs per year the first two years and 5 after to break even. Between faster access to parts and a more direct line into their second-level tech support, it ought to be a better solution than just coming in off the street.

So, I got new RAM chips last night and installed them - problem solved.

Now if I can only get my cable modem to work ...

Okay, so I replaced the RAM and it worked fine for ... three days, but now my computer is on the blink again.

Now it won't even start up at all. I left it on all night, but it was still stalled in the morning. What a fucking waste.

Last call to Dell, I was on hold for at least 35 minutes. I'm so fucking tired of dealing with this shit.

Question for you computer folks out there - if I give up and buy a barebone system, would I have any problems swapping out some of the components (CD-RW, HD, video)? Or is that too risky given what's going on with my computer now? Other than the starting-up issue, all the parts seem to work fine.

-bn

You should have no trouble. But if you're going to do that, it would be more economical to just buy a motherboard & CPU as a base and add your working components to it.

Good idea. But there's something creepy about the Dell box that makes me think anything that goes inside won't work. I really wonder if it's a mobo issue too.

Plus I was thinking about getting one of those neat glowie CPU cases I see on eBay. :P

System building itself is not all that difficult, it's knowing what components go with what and which are the best choices and such, so that if you have to support it yourself you can.

The only advantage of a bare bones system is that the trickiest processes in system building are kinda done for you. Mounting the CPU, mounting the heat sink on the CPU, bolting the whole thing down correctly and attaching the basic IO ports and selecting the right DIP switches -- that's 90% of the battle right there.

But if you can convince someone to help you out with building the first time -- say, by bringing them a case of Red Hook ESB and/or a sack of something similar -- I, I mean they might be convinced to walk you through some of the heavy lifting so that you can get a truly elite system and not settle for a barebones which will probably have a truly crappy case and power supply. Then you'll know what to do next time, or at least with a question to the Cellarites. You could even score a Cellar T-shirt out of the deal, any color as long as you like black.

Add a new psu to that list. Most power supplies are utter crap.
Better fan = less noise
More than enough power = fewer booting problems caused by transients

- Pie

Be sure and check with TW on the power supply. ;)

I suggest eMachines. Those are cheap and a good start if you strip them down and replace the junk you have a half decent system

If you have not first measured those DC voltages from power supply using a 3.5 digit multimeter, then you may suffer a classic example of why that measurement are the first numbers obtained.

As for locating the problem - that is what the Dell Diagnostics accomplish. Responsible computer manufacturers provide those diagnostics for free (I don't believe Gateway nor Emachine even offer such diagnostics).

I don't have a clue why the memory chips were replaced. I don't see what the reason was. However intermittent memory, like most other computer parts, are best identified by using heat. Every part should work just fine even when the room is 100 degrees F. IOW any computer that fails in a 100 degree room is defective (and the naive then cure the symptoms by installing more fans).

For example, the memory diagnostics are run repeatedly AND the memory can be heated with a hair dryer. Those SIMMs should be uncomfortable to touch but not burn skin. Intermittent (and defective) memory will most likely fail diagnostics when heated to this temperature - which is normal operating temperature to properly working SIMMs. Same applies to other system components. Heat is the tool to locate currently intermittent and failing components before they completely fail.

But again, until you have taken those power supply voltage readings and confirmed they are in the upper 3/4 of the limits in those tables, then anything else you do to fix the machine is better known as 'spinning wheels'. Only then are you ready to do the next step - manufacturer's diagnostics with heat. BTW, I don't recall reading any information from the system logs or from the Device Manager. This is an NT OS? Then important information may also exist there.

I'm fairly positive tw has been hitting the bong this morning.