Hard & Soft America
 

Someone send me a newspaper article about a new book "Hard America, Soft America: Competition vs. Coddling and the Battle for the Nation's Future." by Michael Barone. Why does America produce so many incompetent 18-year-olds but remarkably competent 30-year-olds? I’ll paraphrase his ideas.

Schooling became universal and then schools became emblematic of Soft America, with "progressive" values, banning dodge ball and other games deemed too competitive, attempt personality adjustment, promoting self-esteem for almost anyone with a pulse.
Hard America plays for keeps: The private sector fires people when profits fall and the military trains under live fire. Soft America depends on the productivity, creativity and competence of Hard America, to protect the country and pays its bills.

By 1950, America. had a Big Unit economy - big business and big labor, with big government mediating between them.
Between 1947 and 1968, big business got bigger: the share of assets owned by the 200 largest industrial companies rose from 47 percent to 61 percent. Then came a hardening by deregulation. The Interstate Commerce Commission, was abolished.
Between 1970 and 1990, the rate at which companies fell from the Fortune 500 quadrupled. The portion of the GNP accounted for by the 100 largest industrial corporations fell from 36 percent in 1974 to 17 percent in 1998.

In 1957 the Soviet Sputnik provoked some hardening of America's schools - with more science & advance placement courses, and consolidation of rural schools. Kennedy's vow to reach the moon by the end of the 1960s was an inherently hard goal, with a hard deadline measuring success or failure. But the second half of the 1960s brought the Great Softening - in schools and welfare policies, in an emphasis on redistribution rather than production of wealth. Racial preferences, which were born in the 1960s and '70s, fence some blacks off from Hard America, insulating them in "a Soft America where lack of achievement will nonetheless be rewarded."

In the criminal justice system, the number of violent crimes per 100,000 people rose from 1,126 in 1960 to 2,747 in 1970, while the prison population declined from 212,000 in 1960 to 196,000 in 1970. In 2000, after the swing toward hardening, there were 1.3 million prisoners.
The Detroit riot of 1967 lasted six nights before 2,700 federal troops restored order. In 1992, the Los Angeles riots lasted 18 hours, ending six hours after 25,000 federal troops were dispatched.

In the Soft America of 1970, the tapestry of welfare benefits had a cash value greater than a minimum wage job. In the Harder America of 1996, welfare reform repealed Aid to Families with Dependent Children, a lifetime entitlement to welfare. And in the 1990s, welfare dependency, and crime, were cut in half. A harder, self-disciplined America is a safer America.

What institution is consistently rated most trustworthy by Americans? The institution that ended its reliance on conscription, that has no racial preferences and has rigorous life-and death rules and standards: the military.

y'could go the whole hog and make like the spartans

The MILITARY????? You've got to be kidding? Have you any close friends who currently serve in our armed forces? My Dad was a 30 year "lifer" in the US Army. I have a close friend who served in the army for 7 years and is a Gulf War vet. A second friend of mine spent his entire career as an Air Force officer and taught at the most prestigous military school, the United States Air Force Academy. The stories that they tell about military bungling, stupidity, waste of resources and disregard for the enlisted men who serve within its ranks are hair raising. I respect the courage and the honor of our individual soldiers who serve in the military. I am filled with contempt for the heirarchy of the Army and the Department of Defense, as well as the politicians who send these young men off to die in dishonorable and needless wars.

Your little essay which you quoted regarding "hard" versus "soft" left out a teensy little fact. Japan and Europe had no manufacturing infrastructure left after WWII. Everything in those countries was in ruins. The US had a virtual world monopoly on the making and trade of manufactured goods. US companies had no competition internationally and the money poured in.

Alas, Europe and Japan had finally begun to rebuild enough to become competitive in the 70's. The US had also begun to become ever more dependent on foreign oil. There are a few of us around who remember when gasoline prices suddenly went from around .25 cents a gallon to a $1.00 or more. These two things were a heavy blow to American corporations, which far from being "hard" had become soft and lazy in the 50's and 60's.
CEO's with little imagination and even less regard for their employees or their nation, outsourced their labor pools to countries where children would work for$1.00 a day. The willingness of the individual American working man to do a decent job had little if any impact on this decision. The name of the game was merely to keep the profits high by any means.

Their is no logical reason to correlate a drop-off in the provision of social services with a drop in the over-all crime rate, Logic would say, that if anything, the converse would be true. I glanced over the statistics from the department of justice myself and noticed an interesting little footnote. In 1995, they changed some of their reporting methodology. Co-incidentally, that was the same year the crime rate began to go down. Big Brother trying to make itself look good by lying with statistics? There is as much or more evidence for the second hypothesis as the first.

First of all, these are not my ideas but Michael Barone's. I just presented them for comment.
I believe he was pointing out the "people" trust the military more than the politicians or corporations not to screw them. I could be wrong in my interpretation.
That's exactly what he said, it wasn't until after 1970 that businesses had to harden up. But I wonder if that was good for the workers or the country.
Yeah, I remember 17.9 cents. As I understand it, we declined to provide the ever increasing appitite for expensive weapons so they jacked the price of oil to buy there own.

I agree he's full of shit on the tough on crime and welfare correlation. Both are patronizing the frustrated tax payers with feel good legislation that doesn't solve real problems.

I think he's a republican.:haha:

Re: Hard & Soft America
 

""Schooling became universal and then schools became emblematic of Soft America, with "progressive" values, banning dodge ball and..."

I don't want to be thread stealing dude,but when I saw dodge ball I had to laugh.I'm 44 years old.When I was in the fourth grade I was the last kid alive on my team in dodgeball. I was steaming as hard as I could in the gym while trying to watch all the other kids trying to kill me.In those days gym walls didn't have padding.I hit the wall at full speed....,.A year ago I lost the permanent crown(I guess I swallowed it.)I've lost all my good old bennies.I have this terrible looking piece of a front tooth.Worse than no tooth.God,I'm embarrassed.

[quote]Originally posted by marichiko
[b]The MILITARY????? The stories that they tell about military bungling, stupidity, waste of resources and disregard for the enlisted men who serve within its ranks are hair raising.

I am so tired of hearing this. What large organization doesn't produce some of this. Most of us with an ongoing connection to the military understand shit happens - so deal with it. And those of us who deal with the civilian world AND the military world acknowledge that incompetance is far more prevalent in the civilian world than in the US military.

In the 70's and 80's the military had a lot more problems than it does now due to the draftees. (note to anyone who cares - real military members don't want a draftee anywhere near a uniform) Starting in the mid-80's and continuing until shortly after Desert Storm the military cleaned up its act. Most of the a$$holes who were only there for the benefits (college, etc...) but didn't think they should have to go to war chose to or were forced to get out. With all due respect, this is not your father's military.

[quote]Originally posted by depmats
[b]Do you currently serve in a branch of one our armed forces?

Whether you do or not, you are remarkably ill informed. The draft in the US ended in 1973. I think that's stretching it just a teensy bit to say that the military's problems in the 70's and 80's were due to draftee's. I guess they all re-upped or something, except then they wouldn't really be draftee's anymore, now would they?

Anyone who enlisted in the military for the past 20 years just for the benefits was a damned fool. Military benefits have been cut and cut again from the 70's on.

One of the finest members of our military whom I have been priviledged to meet is a full blooded Mohawk Indian who served with great honor and courage as a tank commander in the initial wave of assault we sent out in the first Gulf War. He was responsible for saving the lives of 5 survivng men in another of our tanks which had been hit by enemy fire. I read the letters those men wrote him afterward.

After the first Gulf engagement the army went through a period of downsizing and this man was targeted for an involuntary discharge due to an obvious case of racial prejudice by his CO. I helped him with his legal defense and he came out of it with a citation for merit and a fully honorable discharge. Is he one of the a$$holes to whom you refer? The army brass was the a$$hole in his case and many others.

No, this is not my father's military, and its too damn bad its not. He served on the staff of the Inspector General and with General William Westmoreland in Vietnam as well as with Merrill's Marauders in WWII and a$$holes like you wouldn't have even been fit to lick his boots.

The trouble with thinking out loud (drunk & alone) is that you assume people know exactly what you mean.
Upon review:When I said "good be...".
I was refering to good health benefits.

You know, the same thing happened to me with one of my front teeth. I took a fall off my bike and broke my two front teeth. Years later I lost the crown from one and I was positively snaggled toothed. I didn't have the money for a new crown. I called around and found a dentist who was willing to do a temporary patch job for $160.00. Its lasted so far. Can you afford that much? Try to see if there aren't some low cost dental clinics in your area who can help.

um, calm the hell down. i wasn't referring to your father or your friend. if you stop and think you would realize that i was saying that yes, bad shit doesn happen in the military, just like anywhere else. but it is the exception, not the standard. if you believe otherwise you are misinformed. as a whole - i would prefer the competency level of 99% of the military units out there over 99% of the civilian companies out there. i was referring to a lot of dipshits who DID stay in after vietnam because there was little to no discipline, it wasn't even uncommon to have soldiers smoking weed in the barracks in the late 70's, early 80's. there were many of them who were drafted but stuck around because they didn't have to do shit. then things started changing, thank god. the brass finally pulled their collective heads out and started cracking down.
and as far as enlisting for the benefits??? travel, medical, 20 year pension, steady, if low, pay, free career training, ability to finish a degree during working hours with tuition assistance, clear-cut promotion track, and for some the idea of SERVING their country. these all sound like benefits to me. some of the people may have even chosen the military over welfare. it is more common than you think. that has obvously dropped since the early 90's but until desert storm there were some people who thought it was just another job where you got a cool uniform. a few months in the desert set most of those people straight. (when i originally went in the military, most of the guys preparing for retirement HAD been drafted but were still there 20 years later. so it isn't foolish to believe that a lot of the screwups were left over draftees. i'm sorry you're friend got dicked with, but there was a massive drawdown via RIF/SSB that was not racially motivated. the cold war was ending and it was time for restructure (obviously they have gone way overboard now, but at the time it was the right idea)
and just so you know - YES i have spent the last 13 years in the military, i am only a reservist these days, but i am still proud of my unit and all the others out there protecting your right to sit at home and declare them incompetent. so get off your high horse and realize that, as intelligent as you are, maybe you don't know everything.

Marichiko - I would like to apologize if I was too much of a dick here, but damn, you pushed the buttons this time.

Well, you pushed a few of mine,and if you think I enjoyed sitting at home during the Vietnam conflict when my Dad was serving two tours of duty over there, and it took 10 days for a letter to arrive state-side from 'nam, and anxiously watching the news every night with its body counts and scenes of fire fights and wondering if the next picture that would flash on the screen would be the body of my father dead or wounded, think again.

AS I have stated repeatedly, I have nothing but respect for our individual soldiers, but the DOD and the higher up's in military command pull some pretty out there stunts at times.

And as I said - incompetency is less prevalent in the military than it is in the civilian world. But it will always be present - as long as there are people involved.

Keep in mind when you talk to anyone about their job/company, you're going to hear all the bad shit.
Cowgirl, you're down on the military but your Dad obviously had some respect for it to be a lifer.:)

In many ways my Dad DID respect the military, or perhaps more correctly, some (not all) of the commanding officers he served with. I think the military machine, itself left him feeling very frustrated more than once. He spent the last years of his career with the office of the Inspector General, so you gotta figure he saw more screw-ups than most other military men serving in different capacities. Certainly, my father was proud of his 30 years service to our country (and rightly so). He fought in the jungles of Burma, in Korea, and did two tours in Vietnam - one of which co-incided with the bloody Tet offensive. By his second tour he was senior enough to work in MACV with General Westmoreland. MACV was the plexus of the army message center in the Vietnam engagement. He daily read information and intelligence from units fighting in the jungles and saw the response made by the higher ups in Siagon to what was going on. I think this left him feeling very embittered. He put in for retirement soon after his return from that second tour.

Do you think that just maybe, the time period that he spent in the military and the tours immediately preceding his retirement may have tainted his ( and your) view of the military?

It's not the same military that he retired from.

I retired from the Navy in '93, after 21 years on active duty. I remember the early '70s laxity very well - smoking dope, especially, was very widespread and in the open. Random drug testing and zero tolerance discharges for all put an eventual end to that - but other, even more serious problems have not been as easy to eliminate...perhaps because there exists, within the military, very little desire or incentive to do so.

There exist, in the military, a number of near-universal and (sadly) perhaps inevitable roadblocks to efficiency and competence...and these were in evidence, to me and those with whom I worked, every bit as much in '93 as they were in '72. One of my sons recently served a tour as a tank mechanic in the Army, and advises me that very little if anything has changed in these areas.

To put it simply, the military is not a business - it is therefore under no pressure to 'make a profit' or operate in the most time- or cost-effective manner. Waste is not only a way of life - it's sometimes a priority.

I can remember my P3-C Orion crew being about to land back at Moffett Field after a training flight, and being advised by the Ops office to do 'bounces' (landing practice) for two or three hours, in order to burn fuel. It was the last day of the fiscal quarter or something, and we had to burn the fuel or risk being alotted less in the future. Once I was handed a supply catalog by my Department Head and told to "order anything you can think of" - he didn't care what - for much the same reason.

Since job performance ratings are never based on making (and seldom based on saving) money, they are often based, instead, on very arbitrary, and often bizarre and nonsensical, criteria that would only make sense within the context of the military, and at times, not even there. Add to this that it is nearly impossible - once a certain level of seniority, in either the enlisted or the officer grades, has been achieved - to lose your job without creating a very serious and public spectacle of a screw-up, and the stage is pretty well set for institutionalized incompetence to rule the day.

In the late '80s-early '90s, the TQM (Total Quality Management) craze struck the military at the highest levels; the military leadership renamed it 'Total Quality Leadership', and soon commands were shelling out taxpayer money for $500 videotapes of the system's founder dropping ball bearings onto a table and droning on about probability. The bottom line was to establish working groups within a company (or command) to address and examine every tiny aspect of the institution's workings and make recommendations to those in charge as to how to proceed. It was (and is) the most complex and convoluted method humanly imaginable for doing anything, and it fit the military like a big square peg in a round hole. I'm sure they've probably dropped it by now, but not before a whole lot of brass-hats had their retirement homes paid for by kickbacks from the TQM people.

I can remember my P3-C Orion crew being about to land back at Moffett Field after a training flight, and being advised by the Ops office to do 'bounces' (landing practice) for two or three hours, in order to burn fuel. It was the last day of the fiscal quarter or something, and we had to burn the fuel or risk being alotted less in the future. Once I was handed a supply catalog by my Department Head and told to "order anything you can think of" - he didn't care what - for much the same reason.

This sort of thing most definitely happens in corporate America too. Departments have to spend the budget money or lose it, that's the way it goes.

The proud actions of our military recently have made me feel like the American Dream is derailed. When did America become the land of the oppressors and opportunists, when did we go from the people who freed Dachau to the people who thought it would be great fun to sexually assault people who are handcuffed and take pictures of it? When did America become a bunch of weak-minded thugs looking to oppress anyone who disagreed with them. I will be willing to bet money that someone reading this is thinking right now, “if you don’t like it get out.” Yes because the America that was once the land of the free and the home of the brave has become the land of like it or leave it, the very thing our ancestors came here to escape.

I have long thought that really, everyone worldwide is just trying to make it day to day, keep the kids out of trouble, food on the table, roof over their heads – the human condition is universal. Even so, I thought we had something different in this country that was founded by rugged individuals and adventure seekers. If we were looking for the easy way out, none of us would be here. We were the grand experiment, a nation of devil may care cowboys – play hard, work hard, shoot straight, and fight fair. We’ve always had our differences but at the core of it, we all knew that we were in this thing together and when the chips were down, we had each other’s backs. Considering what we had to work with, it’s amazing that we didn’t kill each other off long ago, but we didn’t. We started with nothing and took this country from a wild and untamed frontier to the world’s only remaining super power. We’re the richest, most powerful nation on earth and it would seem that we’ve become a bunch of assholes.

What does it mean to be a “proud American” now? What has America done to be proud of? The idiot running the country is a national embarrassment. Did you see that speech last night – utter and complete crap.

[quote]Originally posted by TheLorax
[b]The proud actions of our military recently have made me feel like the American Dream is derailed. When did America become the land of the oppressors and opportunists, when did we go from the people who freed Dachau to the people who thought it would be great fun to sexually assault people who are handcuffed and take pictures of it? When did America become a bunch of weak-minded thugs looking to oppress anyone who disagreed with them.

When did we decide to condemn all for the actions of a dozen piles of shit?


I (nor any thinking person) don't condone the behavior, but I refuse to weep and gnash my teeth at the downfall of America because of a few vermin.

This behavior is much more widespread than the dozen grunts pictured.

are you saying you believe that
A) a few
B) many
c) most
d) all

of the troops stationed in Iraq are getting off on degrading prisoners in Iraq? My point is that if it is 12/20/50/100 of the 140,000+ people deployed it is still a small minority. It is not acceptable - toast 'em and move on.

Not only it is systemic but there has been a shocking lack of outrage. We’re supposed to be the protectors of the little guys and yet people who claim to be the moral arbiters of this country ie. Rush are acting like this is normal, acceptable behavior. It’s not normal, it’s not acceptable, and it’s not what made this country worth fighting and dying for. My grandfather did NOT go to WWII so that a mere 60 years later we could be the very thing he went to war to stop.

1) Rush is a buffoon. Even someone who is conservative will tell you that.

2) Many actions of US troops in WWII would be classified as torture today. Not this type of stupid bullshit torture either. This was just the work of bullies, who deserve to have their lives ended for abusing those put under their control. I don't believe this was really done to get info. In WWII, if a captured soldier had info that his captors needed - THEY WOULD GET IT. I believe it was Lt Col West who fired a gun near a prisoner's head last year and then saw his career destroyed. That would not have even been reported in WWII.

Different world, different obstacles.

The real number to compare to is not 140,000, but the number of troops and civilian contractors who have direct contact with prisoners. I think that the abuse rate among them is very high, but I know that it is higher than 12, which is the number blithely bandied about as if to excuse it.

edit:

I also think it goes much higher in rank as well as number.

That very apathy is what I’m talking about. Do you really think that that this was the actions of a few, low level morons? They had to get the idea somewhere that this was acceptable. Who do you blame?

You can start out by blaming the ones who physically committed the crimes – sure, absolutely. Individuals are responsible for their own behavior, but it would be naïve to stop there.

You have to point the finger at the brass who either through ignorance or apathy allowed this kind of thing to happen right under their noses. Which is it, they either condone it or they are negligent in their duties – thanks for coming, that one just took a bad hop off the infield now hit the bench.

Do you blame the American culture that will shit bricks over seeing a human breast on television, but thinks nothing of casual and bloody violence. Did you watch CSI this week? There was a graphic rape scene at what 9:00 at night. So consensual sex is bad, ugly, and dirty but cold cocking a woman, tying her up, and raping her is all in a night’s entertainment? Isn’t it just possible that we are desensitizing ourselves to violence to the point that the line between fantasy and reality is blurred?

What about the parents? Those guys were not raised by wolves, someone gave birth to them, nurtured them, and then unleashed them on the world. This is not just about the guys who did this either, this is about every single citizen of this country who has looked at those pictures and viewed them with anything other than shock, outrange, and horror. Why isn’t this being called what it is, treason?

Maybe I'm more optimistic than I should be, but I still believe that most Americans, when confronted with the simple, unvarnished truth about a given situation, will make the fair, decent and rational choice. The greatest obstacles to that happening are the influence generated, the interference run, the obfuscation created, and the misinformation supplied, by the powers that be behind the scenes - those with a tremendous financial interest in things going along pretty much as they have been in recent years.

Our foreign policy is no longer in the hands of learned statemen, even to the extent that it ever was. The fate of American servicemen is now in the hands of White House policy wonks with their own agendas - and to a great extent, they have made every American a target for the World's outrage. Every criticism is deflected with spin, knee-jerk denial, ridicule and outright lying, and no one is ever held accountable for the truth.

I have to disagree Lorax. Technically, he's an international embarrassment.

[quote]Originally posted by TheLorax
[b] They had to get the idea somewhere that this was acceptable. Who do you blame?

You can start out by blaming the ones who physically committed the crimes – sure, absolutely. Individuals are responsible for their own behavior, but it would be naïve to stop there.

You have to point the finger at the brass who either through ignorance or apathy allowed this kind of thing to happen right under their noses. Which is it, they either condone it or they are negligent in their duties – thanks for coming, that one just took a bad hop off the infield now hit the bench.

You don't have to be at the top of a chain of command to come up with a fucked up idea. It is possible, whether you will admit it or not, that they DID do this on their own. We don't know - not you, not me. Conspiracy theories will abound and everybody can believe what they want, but you don't know for a fact that it does go beyond them and I don't know for a fact that it doesn't.

As for pointing the finger at the brass? Well, I'm still pretty far down the food chain so it isn't like I am covering a friend's ass here. I wish everything could be as simple as your view of events(condone vs. negligent) The military does not have cameras on everyone all the time. It is possible for a group of people to act in an unacceptable manner for a time - it will eventually be found out, though. and investigated. people will be disciplined. scenario sound familiar at all?
I don't say it is impossible that this went higher, but I am sick and tired of armchair generals like you sitting back and assuming that it went to the highest levels, "OMG america is crumbling, lets burn the village and cut our wrists so the world doesn't have to be ravaged by our decadent society anymore... "

Get over it. Bad shit happened. Consequences will be paid. It is bad but the world isn't ending because of the actions of some dumbass prison guards.

Beautifully put. Often what seems like anti american sentiment from us euros is actually more of an intense disappointment that with the start you had you havent managed to avoid making the same mistakes we made when we were powerful. But then they do say that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. America has absolute power in the modern world.

As to the abuses in Abu Ghraib.....The soldiers and reservists who are being courtmarialled over those offenses should be held accountable for their actions, but they did not think this up. They are responsible for their parts in it but they are not responsible for the whole. The people who are ultimately responsible for this outrage are the people who stated that the soldiers and interrogators should "Grab who (they) like and do what (they) want". These same people instigated a policy of abuse in Guantanamo bay and Afghanistan and then extended that policy to include Abu Ghraib. Rumsfeld and Rice both approved that order.

I watched the hearings and the top brass taking the heat, they were as full of shit as they come, this was known about, it was reported to them, nothing was done and nothing would have been done if it hadn`t hit the media.

Actually, we know where this came from. It came from the White House. It was White House counsel that said that the US doesn't have to follow Geneva Conventions anymore. He didn't say it in a vacuum either. He said it to senior White House staff, maybe even the President. That attitude trickled down through the ranks to the prison guards. It came from the TOP. I'm sure the idea of the the naked piles of prisoners didn't come from the White House, but the general idea of the suspension of the Geneva Conventions did.

And by the way, I know how terribly sick and tired you are, but if you are quoting somebody saying that America should slit its wrists, maybe you should attribute that quote to somebody specific. Unless, of course, you pulled the quote out of your ass.

Bingo, as they say...and I believe that this knowledge (of being "the world's last remaining super-power", as the news people are always reminding us) affects the thinking, even if subtly, of more Americans in more ways than we're really aware.

Whether you're talking about George W. Bush himself, or the man (or woman) on the street, the basic attitude seems to have developed into something along the lines of, "We're the United States and we'll do what we damn well want to." Criticism of the President's goals or methods equals capitulation to "the terrorists" and their supporters (e.g. anyone who doesn't agree with the President's goals or methods). America, it seems to many, can only "stay strong" by enforcing the will and agenda of its executive leadership (by which I do not mean the President, but his unelected, behind the scenes advisors) around the World.

The abuses at Abu Ghraib are just a symptom of a general malady called Hubris. "We're the United States, and we'll do what we damn well want to."

may you live in interesting times
 

Yes ‘hubris’, that is exactly the problem. We are the only super power left and we think that means that rules don’t apply to us. It’s ridiculous in a pride cometh before a fall way. The truth is that we can get away with whatever we want to get away with. Does that make it right? It a crime still a crime if the police never find out about it.

As for how far up this goes, well that’s what investigations are for isn’t it. I do think there is culpability at the top, they are the ones who set the tone. Bush wants to run this country like a business, well fine then the CEO is at fault. Does this mean that we can expect his resignation now or does “the buck stops here” only apply to Democrats.

Re: may you live in interesting times
 

So he'll get $30 million a year and free rides in Air Force 1 for life?

Eh, still worth it.

Re: may you live in interesting times
 

Didn't he tank two healthy companies that were handed to him or something?

And he traded Sammy Sosa to the Cubs...

You are dead wrong. Very bad things happen in the military that are never made public and no one gets disciplined as a result of them happening. What was done to my full blood Native American friend as a result of racial prejudice was simply the tip of the iceberg in a military mindset which allowed for the torture of Iraqui prisoners. No one was disciplined over what happened to him. The entire case was swept under the rug and my friend was simply thankful to get out with his official record cleared and his good name intact. I begged him to go after the SOB Colonel responsible, but he just wanted clear of the entire situation, and I can't say that I blame him. Later reports showed that his was not an isolated case.

Marichiko - I give up - in your belief system the entire military is a big clusterfuck. It's full of bad, evil people out to screw over the world in some mad powerplay. The real military does not resemble Dr Strangelove. Bad shit happens - just like in everyday life. Get over it.

Wrong, pal. That's not my take at all. There are plenty of decent, competent people in the military. It is on their behalf that I speak out against the abuses which occur. I'm not saying that every minority member in the military is discriminated against or that every soldier is a secret torturer. But some people want to enforce a sort of conspiracy of silence when our military does do something that is wrong - as if anybody who would be upset about us torturing prisoners is on the side of the enemy. People SHOULD be upset about this. It goes against everything the US is supposed to stand for.