ONE QUARTER OF ONE MILLION
 

If President Bush has his way, 250,000 Housing Vouchers will be taken in 2005. By 2009, another 600,000 families will lose their homes. In Colorado alone, 3,337 families would lose their vouchers in 2005 and another 8,010 by 2009. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the Section 8 Housing Voucher cost under the current program would be nearly the same through 2009. Despite this fact the Bush Administration is suggesting 850,000 people be cut from the program by 2009.

That's a lot of people on the streets, folks. That's a lot of women and little kids forced to stay in abusive situations because they have nowhere else to go.

For me, it means a return to the banks of the San Miguel River which is okay in the summer, but no damn fun at all when the snow flies. I get just a little over $600 a month from disability. There's no way I can cover rent and utilities on that without a housing voucher. Right now I'm scared to death. I don't have the stamina to handle being homeless again, and there's a quarter of a million Americans just like me out there. PLEASE write your congressman and ask them to vote against this cut.

And, Radar, I don't want to read one single word from you on this subject, so don't even think of replying.

Where are you getting this info from, Mari?

I was alerted to this fact thru an online newsletter I get from the Colorado Cross-Disability Association. You can read the news straight from the horse's mouth at this site:

http://www.cbpp.org/pubs/housing.htm

Right now I am so bummed out I want to cry.

I'm writing some letters now but single voices are hard to hear :(

Damn Marichiko. Thats awful. Not much point my writing to anyone but my goodwishes go to you nonetheless. This is all yet more reason for people to vote and vote well

That's what keeps us all quiet, Mrkite. We feel disenfranchised by the system. I know that I certainly do. Still, I'll be damned if I go down without offering so much as a word of protest. These proposed housing voucher cuts by Bush hit the very people who most need help the hardest - seniors living on low incomes, the disabled, and single Mom with kids trying to get out of abusive situations. We consider ourselves a generous people, yet we are willing to turn a quarter million of our own people out onto the streets to fend for themselves as best they can. Its an outrage! Thank you for writing and tell your friends. In the words of John Donne,

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main... Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. . . "

If they would drop people off section 8 who are violating the terms of their rental agreements, this wouldn't be a problem ... people who fail their inspection, have other adults living in the residence, or test positive for drugs/alcohol use should be O-U-T.

I agree, Wolf. There are some people who abuse the system, but for every individual who is abusing it, there are 100 who desperately need the help. And many of the people who illegally have someone live with them do so out of dire financial need. SSI only pays $530/month, and its very hard to live on that, even with a housing voucher. People with housing vouchers are still required to pay 30% of their income toward rent. 30% of $530.00 is $159.00, leaving the individual with $381.00/month to cover the rest of their expenses. Can you wonder that they might take another person into the household to help with expenses?

Punishing the innocent for the crimes of a few is NOT the solution to the problem. The clever cons will continue to manipulate the system. The honest old lady on a tiny pension will have nowhere to go.

It's not Bush. It's not "The System". It's not "The Government".

It's me. You come over to my house every month, take a third of every dollar that I earn, and use it to pay your rent. Regardless of how needy, how tragic your life circumstances, how difficult it may be for you to go out and earn a living, the basic reality is that I'm paying your rent for you. The fact that the IRS and SSI act as your agents doesn't obviate the fundamental exchange.

Given that reality, don't I have a right to argue against it? Shouldn't I vote for people who pledge to fight for my right to not pay your rent? And when those people follow through on their promises, shouldn't I applaud them?

I think I'll start a letter writing campaign of my own.

-sm

Perhaps Mr smoothmoniker those people you wish to elect to strip people of benefits would have more credibility if they didn't then blow any savings on government savings they made on pointless missile defense systems and foreign adventure.

I for one would rather have money 'stolen' by the likes of marichiko then return to the sort of 19C paradise were the poor die on the streets without help, as they die of their own faults

Not to mention the billions of $$$$'s given away to th'likes of McDonalds in "corporate welfare"
If smoothmoniker really wants his tax burden reduced there are much worthier targets than housing stamps which account for a very very small part of that tax

Eh, no, that's not reality. That's your perception.

marichiko, are you sure that YOU will be cut? It sounded to me like there will be all sorts of different outcomes in different areas. It will probably affect you in some way, but it may not be as bad as you apparently feel it might.
Maybe it's time to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and become self sufficient,....sell drugs.;)

I'd rather camp on the San Miguel until I'm 95 than take as much as a penny from you, your excellency. The money I now recieve is from SSDI, MY OWN money that I paid in to Social Security from MY earnings from MY work over an almost 30 year period.

By the way, of that 1/3 that the government takes from your paycheck, much of it goes to other things rather than social security. The government has been robbing social security for years and using it for things like George Junior's fiasco in Iraq. The American public, including you, is so ill informed that they don't even realize where their money is really going.

You have obviously never heard of the concept of enlightened self interest. You are too busy out there in fantasy land to look around you at the real world except maybe to kick a homeless person out of the way if he gets too close to you as you step into your limo.

No, I can't know that I will be cut, but I am a single person. If resources become as limited as the Bush administration wants, vouchers will most likely be given to families, and rightly so, in my book. I couldn't stand buying my well-being at the expense of say a Mom and her two year old son and three year old daughter or even an elderly women who is going blind and has a hard time hearing.

And I am doing everything I can to get medical and voc-rehab help, but these things take time and the cuts are already starting now. Actually, selling drugs is beginning to look good. I know a dealer and he has a nice standard of living and doesn't even have to pay taxes. I'm sure SM would approve of that!

have you considered 'phone sex operator'?

One ringy dingy, two ringy dingy, oooooooh! (Puts on my best Lily Tomlin expression, and scrunches up my lips ala Lilly).

I just find it outrageous that the most wealthy nation that exists or indeed has ever existed cannot just grit it's teeth and give all it's citizens a decent standard of living.

That doesnt mean everyone will live for free....Welfare is never going to pay for the holidays or good cars that most people aspire to so there will always be a reason for people to push themselves forwards.

Its just about where you set the bottom bar.....I can understand a country like India setting the bottom bar at homelessness and starvation but I fail to see why the United States of America is prepared to accept that as its bottom bar.

That's not the job of the government, dear. You socialists have it wrong.

No it would seem the job of the government is to push back into the cave any brave soul which sets out to find the source of the flickerig shadows.

Danac is right, no modern society is without basic standards, be it of water quality, air quality or even in most countries life quality. If priorities and resources were available what exactly would be immoral about setting a limit on the level of poverty in a country as rich as the US. We are not talking limiting the other end of the wealth scale?

Yelof, the fundamental difference between the US and most countries is that the US is much more individualistic. To an outsider, it looks like we may be cold and uncaring. As a whole, I do not think we are either. A bit callous, yes. Cold and uncaring, no. Most Americans can get one hot meal a day, a place to sleep and emergency medical care if needed. It ain't much, that's for sure. But it's better than nothing.

On a fundamental level, I do believe the government should take good care of me, as I help take care of it. Unfortunately, the chances of cutting the stupid-ass bureaucratic red tape in this country are slim to none. In addition, most Americans do not wish to have higher taxes or more government.

As of 2002, 12.1% of all Americans were below the poverty line. That's up from the end of the 90s, but down compared to 20 and 40 years ago. (Source) That's a lot of people, but not bad for a country of our size.

What do you consider the government's job to be?

I wouldnt raise the tax for most people. I would only raise taxes for the wealthier elements of society. The wealthy elite could easily pay a few more per cent on their enormous incomes and still increase the gap between the haves and the have nots.

Its not aboiut more government either. Its about similar levels of government energy focussed in the right place. Less attention given to seeking out potheads( and all the costs incurred in that ) and maybe more government attention on making sure people dont starve or go homeless or are unable to gain access to medical services. The medicare system does not mean evryone has access to medicine. Or not the way I have heard it explained anyway. From what I am led to understand there is a fairly small portion of the population who have no access to healthcare

Will this affect returning military personnel? I'm still not clear on the level of protection provided by Soldiers and Sailors Act, but I know that it ends upon release from active duty?

While interest payments drop to %6 while on active, everything comes back when active duty ends.

Even assuming that employers have held their jobs, or an equivalent, bills will have piled up. Items like vouchers might be needed.

It is the job of government to "promote the general welfare" of its people. What is the one thing that makes a country properous? Natural resources such as petroleum, minerals, precious metals, arable farm land can help a country achieve prosperity, but it is the people of the country who must act to ensure that prosperous conditions prevail. Countries without many natural resources can still be prosperous. Look at Japan. Look at Switzerland.

The United States stands alone among other Western nations in the lack of assistance it gives to its people. Why is this? Because our national subconscious still accepts a paradigm of the United States that ceased to be valid at least 50 years ago. Still, in the back of the mind of every American citizen we view this country as our Pilgrim ancestors did - a vast land of opportunity where anything was possible, and with enough hard work we could achieve our dreams. Our children are still taught to lisp the words of "America the Beautiful": "Oh beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountains' majesty above the FRUITED plain."

The reality is that America has become a land of limits. It stops at the Pacific ocean. There is nowhere else to go (except to seize power in other countries, of course). The complexity of the modrn world has made education a necessity, not the comparitive luxury it once was when there was always simple (if hard) work on our farms and factories. Today the family farm has given way to agribusiness, and our factories have been outsourced to China, our technology is being outsourced to India. Our economy is vitally dependent on petroleum largely extracted from an area of the world which hates us. The extended family unit has vanished and its every man or woman for themselves.

Middle class America does not want to recognize these things. Nobody likes paradigm shifts and Americans are no different from anybody else in this regard. Life is hard enough, supporting our families, going to school, trying to do a decent job at work. And Americans ARE a hardworking people. The Protestant work ethic has been bred into us and we are suspicious of people who we perceive as not sharing that ethic.

We look at our paychecks and see that the government is skimming 1/3 right off the top for something called "FICA" - that's welfare, or social security, or entitlement programs - however you want to look at it. That notation "FICA" is one of the biggest lies the American government tells its people. That money is supposed to go to the social security fund. Instead, it goes to every government boondoggle imaginable, all in the name of the poor and disabled - the group least able to speak out for themselves.

People attack this misuse of their money by blaming the disabled and the poor and the elderly. Their idea of government accountability is not to demand that the government spend this money on what it was intended for, but rather that the government throw our old people and our disabled to the dogs.

Even if Radar were elected president tomorrow and Wolf and Smooth Moniker were made members of his cabinet, and the old and disabled were thrown to the wolves, the rest of you who live in the states would see little difference in your tax burden. That's because so little of what you pay in taxes actually went to social programs in the first place.

I sometimes wonder what Radar and company would do about the elderly and the disabled. The cities in America already have a large number of homeless people wandering about, sleeping on sidewalks, holding up signs at intersections that read "Please help." They are not only a nuisance and unsightly, but an embaraasment when hosting foreign businessmen and dignatories. Should Radar ever become president, my suggestion is that he order out the army and have us all shot. As someone who has been homeless with no medical care and little food, I can assure you all that this would be the most humane solution. Put us all out of our misery and do so quickly, so that you all can be proud to be Americans again. Get rid of your people.

There is a picture which I have seen hanging in an office somewhere which has burned itself into my memory. It shows a man with a hard hat and engineering plans spread out in his hands. He is on a construction site and he sits in a wheelchair. Underneath the picture is a caption which reads "America needs ALL its people."

I have two graduate degrees. I spent the better part of my life as a librarian and a college teacher. I loved my work and I worked hard. I feel incredibly fortunate to have been given the opportunities I was given. I want to give back what I was so lucky to obtain. I have over 20 years experience in my profession and a love for young people. I want more than anything in this world to stand on my own two feet and be a productive member of society again. Thanks to an unfair divorce settlement and my own stubborn refusal to ask for help (I considered applying for disability a major personal defeat), I went through every penny I had and I had no medical insurance. I had to fight the government for 5 long, bitter years just to get the medical help I need. Even now, I can't find a neurologist who will accept Medicaid.

As far as I'm concerned, its like taking a well made Swiss watch worth thousands of dollars and throwing it in the trash for lack of a $2.00 battery to refuse to help a person like me with my background and education and desire to work. I am not so arrogant as to believe that I am that unique. There are many, many other people just like me in this country who simply need a hand reached out in encouragement - not some hand out.

Radar and Wolf and Smooth Moniker would rather throw us all in some human garbage heap than extend ten cents of their own money to help us. Its easy to feel animosity toward that alcoholic Vietnam vet with the "Please help" sign. Why doesn't he just sober up and get a job? Why should I have to support HIS drinking habit? This attitude gets extended to the disabled community in general. Unlike the faceless government beaurocrat who tells you lies and mismanages your tax dollar, you have a face to put on the poor. That drunk down on the corner. And of course, everybody has some story to tell about someone they knew or their neighbor knew or their cousin's neighbor knew who was outrageously milking the system. Well maybe they were, and maybe they weren't. Just how well did you know this person you tell the horror story about? Did you sit down and share a meal with them? Did you exchange the stories of your lives, your hopes, your concerns, the victories you won and the things that defeated you? Most likely not.

The middle class travels in a well protected bubble. All their friends have jobs and they went to school and they worked hard and they don't see why everybody else can't do the same. Too many of the American middle class are intellectually lazy; they lack the imagination; and most of all, they lack the courage to understand how what they have achieved might not be possible for some people.

There is a great deal of prejudice against the handicapped in America today. This prejudice is largely born out of fear which is mostly subconscious. People fear becoming one of "them." People want to think that their lives are secure, at least to some extent. They don't want to face the reality that bad things can happen to THEM. When they see it happen to someone else, it must be that person's own fault.

Goddamn you, Radar! Goddamn you, Smoothmoniker, Goddamn you Wolf! I'm no different than you. I'm a human being, too. All I ask for is a fighting chance and all you have to offer me is your smug indifference. I and every other American like me. I am here to tell you that what happened to me could happen to you. When you look at that man on the street corner if you have the guts to meet his eyes, you will see your own eyes reflected back at you. When you look in the mirror, it is my eyes and the eyes of every other American looing back at you. "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."

According to the website, the poverty level is:
One person.............................. 9,183
Under 65.............................. 9,359
65 and over........................... 8,628
I’m not quite sure why there’s three numbers, but 125% of $9183 is $11,479, which they call "near poverty" and is another 4.4% of the population
Damn, I’d hate to try living on that without help. I also wonder how many people go uncounted. Under the radar, so to speak.

This table gives the poverty level.

But why should wealthier people be taxed more? After all, many of them worked hard for that money. Not that I completely disagree with you, but I'm curious as to your rationale.

Nice idea, but I don't think it would work. Law enforcement and medicine are two totally different realms. You have to have the right tools to do the job. Health care costs continue to rise as well.

Medicare is for those 65 and older, the disabled and those with end-stage renal failure. However, there are laws in place that give people the right to necessary medical treatment regardless of their ability to pay.

Depends on where you get the numbers from...it's anywhere from 20-40 million...7-14% of the US population.

20-40 million people with no access to medicical attention? *shakes head* I dont understand why you guys are prepared to accept that.

As to my rationale ....I guess it goes something like this. You can either look at wealth and resources in terms of who deserves it....or you can look at them in terms of who needs it. I believe in a small degree of redistribution of wealth. I am not ( as I was in my youth) a revolutionary socialist. I dont believe that people should be prevented from following their goals , whatever those goals shold be. If people want to try their hand at making millions, I say good luck to them. I also say that it was their society which made such a thing possible. It was their society that likely provided them a market, probably a labourforce, the basic infrastructures which make a city tick along......All these things are a part of a whole. I say that their wealth is a product of their society as well as their own individual efforts.

Mostly though its about whether or not one believes in making an attempt to elevate one's society above and beyond the confines of the hierarchy of needs. Of those people who spend their lives dragging themselves from one disaster to the next with no real chance to escape the grinding poverty they were born into, how many could have been great? How many could have done something truly creditable if only they hadnt had to waste 40 years struggling against hunger or the deep and nasty depression that comes from money worries.

The rich dont get rich in a vacuum. We are all a part of the equation that makes them the elite. I say we make em pay for the privelege of having gotten rich off us......

It doesnt matter much to me who deserves it. What matters to me is who needs it. Thats why I really dont mind paying my taxes. Its why I wish a larger percentage of them went to helping people who have fallen down on their luck.

It also makes economic sense. If you give people little or no social provision then the grey economy becomes even larger and thats all money thats getting lost to the system. If people have their basic needs met and a small amount on top to live on they'll spend that money in shops.

If people are able to survive without work but with some dignity
( ie dont give them stamps give them currency. I have unemployed friends they get their money paid directly into their bank account.) employers will be forced to offer their workforce better conditions/packages. This will lead to higher wages and therefore higher spending power. The higher wages and higher spending power will attract the people who arent in work thereby reducing the number of people defrauding the system.

Personally I would prefer that people are taking a job because it will improve their lives and allow them to do all the things middle class people take so much for granted (like hifis and holidays, decent cars and nice toys for the kids at christmas, an abundance of good food) ....I'd prefer that to them taking a job because the alternative is as miserable as any calcutta beggar's existence. My fellow citizens are exactly that. I would not want any of them to go to the wall.

My paystub says I pay about 1.5% to medicare and 6.2% to Social Security. I know my employer matches the SS deduction but from MY check it's 6.2%.

That's exactly why I resist any more gumint programs for any cause. They are they most inefficient and mismanaged way to attack any problem. Attacking working people because they feel they are taxed enough, is stupid. The problem and the proper target for your ire, is the gumint and the way it spends(wastes/mismanages/misdirects) the taxes they already collect. my personal pet peeve is any program that's justified under the vast umbrella, "for the children".

Ask for help from whom? Bad things happen to good people(and bad people) but it seems you contributed to the present situation by your actions, or should I say inactions. Personally I don't see how being a "swiss watch" makes you more deserving of help than the dropout. People are people, and should be treated humanely.:)

The government was exactly the entity I was attacking in the quote you responded to. What I disagree with is the average working person's unquestioning assumption that the government is really spending the money for what it says it is. Certainly, it is stupid to attack people because they feel taxed enough; just as it is stupid to attack the poor for government spending that they are not the recipients of.


ASking for help from the government, Bruce - applying for SSDI. Sure, I contributed to my problem by not running down right away and filing for disability. I kept trying to work. Whatever was I thinking of?

Nor do I think I'm any more or any less deserving of help than any other person. It is my personal belief that every single one of us is the equal to that expensive Swiss watch. Every human being has his or her own unique qualities and special talents to offer. I wish for help for us ALL. I am sorry that I failed to convey that in my post, because that means more than anything to me - that so very many good people are going by the wayside for lack of help.

I don't know anyone that thinks they know what the gumint actually is doing with all the money. I think your wrong in assuming the average working person believes any such thing. My guess would be the average working person just feels so hopelessly ineffective in dealing with the feds, they've given up trying to influence any gumint actions. Some have even given up voting.:(

MANY have given up voting. Only 51% of those eligible to do so voted in the 2000 election. Young people, especially, seem turned off by the entire political process. Only 15% of the 18-24 year old group voted. Elections on the national level to me have become like a choice between insincere-out-for-his-own-gain politician no. 1 or would you like insincere-out-for-his-own gain politician no. 2? I personally think the Federal Government is largely made up of a group of people who should be in the Federal Penitentiary System, instead. Its disheartening, to say the least.

Sounds like when it comes to "fat, dumb and happy", you've got three strikes at the moment.;)

I do the best to make up for my country by voting in 3 countries ;)