So, how many Pagans do we ACTUALLY have here?
 

I'm just curious. I'm eclectic Wiccan myself, mostly Green, with a little bit of Greek, Roman, and Strega, for a little over ten years. I personally became Pagan because it just seemed like I finally found a belief system that matched the one I already held. Not to mention that it emphasizes personal responsibility, and I think the rituals are much more evocative than any church I've attended.

Anybody else wanna 'fess up?


Sidhe

I thought about putting it in the philosophy forum, but I don't really want to know about any religious experiences or such...just curious as to numbers....


Sidhe

7

The answer is "some."

;)

I am the Religious Right. Just not the religion you were expecting.

Now I wonder where Jinx got her figure. I'm also curious about her answer of "7".

:D

When I work it through I keep coming up with a number closer to 5. or maybe 4-1/2. (which I suppose is close to 5.)

Well, you're doing better than I am, because I can only come up with 4 who have just flat come right out and said it.

But what about the new members since then?

(wrote a reply to this, then sent it in PM because I didn't want to out anyone who didn't want outing)

A pity, that.

It's more fun to remain mysterious ... any of the individuals I was thinking of have made public declaration, anyway ...

oh, I thought of at least one more ... a lurker ... creator of the a pagan conservative elist I moderate.

Do a search on "pagan"...you'll find 5 that have professed it to the masses.

God bless those Pagans!

old Simpsons bit

that was actually me, squatting. I pulled "7" in a very scientific method that is used for most statistics: from my ass.

i was actually just breaking sidhe's balls, who was doing her typical avoidance tactic in response to cougars shitty "shut up and look it up" reply. makes sense now, right?

There's a difference between avoidance tactics and being too damned lazy to look it up....I think....:p


Sidhe

So how many pagans do we have here?
 

Hey just count the broomsticks outside the clubhouse when we are all logged in :D

On another note when I was a kid we had a sunday school teacher who's surname was Pagan nice lady I remember.

Catty? Nah. Cranky? Irritable? Yeah.

I don't remember if this was from the same episode, but the Flanders go to visit the Pagan Simpsons in a flashback/storytelling and Ned says "Heidiliho pagans," followed by one of the kids announcing, "we've brought you some ram's blood for your godless ceremony."

Cracks me up every time I see it.

.......I am curious as to what draws you guys to Paganism? What about it makes sense to you ( or rather why does it make more sense to you than th'other religions/philosphies)?

Also. I am curious how modern Paganism acquired the name "Wicca". I always thought "Wicca" was derived from "Hwicce" ...The Hwicce were Angles who settled what is now East Anglia in the British Isles and gave their name to many places in the form of "Witch" as in Witchwood ( Hwicce wudu)

I went lookin' online and found there is some debate and confusion over the name's root, so I'd be intrigued to get your take on it.

If ( as conventional historians tend to suggest) the name is derived from Hwicce, I am interested to know why their name has been adopted to describe a particular type of paganism. They were pagans...but they were one kingdom/tribe amongst many and my impression of them has always beenthat they followed a similar creed to the other Germanic tribes ( many of whose royalty tried to claim descent from Wodin ) until more and more of them began to take on Christianity ( 6th century onwards)

So.....if any of you Pagans can shed a little light or give me your impressions of how Wicca developed in the modern context and what the word means/where it came from, I would appreciate it. ( and no I am not being cynical)

Let's see...where to start? I can only speak for myself, but here goes....

Looking up the definitions of the word, I've always found the words "to bend" or something similar. Maybe the fact that I've looked up Latin or OE may have made a difference. I've also taken both languages, and while I can't really speak them as well as I can read them...aagh...getting off the subject.

Anyway, you'll hear a lot of wiccans say that while all wiccans are pagans, not all pagans are wiccans. Obviously, that's because while all pagans share a similar belief system, for the most part, other pagan religions tend to be pantheistic, whereas wicca tends to have a representative God and Goddess, which are the two aspects of a single being. There may be many aspects to each, but basically it's God/dess.

As far as why I was drawn to Wicca: not only does it make more sense to me, but it also jibes with what I've always believed in the first place. Wicca, and paganism in general, gives one more participation in ritual, emphasizes questioning and responsibility for one's actions, and is very tolerant of other beliefs because it does not believe that there is only one way to Deity. Wicca does not emphasize a fear of a wrathful and ascetic god; on the contrary, we see God/dess as a loving parent figure, who encourages an enjoyment of life and the gifts that we've been given. It doesn't rely on threats of hell to keep it's followers "in line."

I've never believed that Deity is wrathful, jealous, angry, vengeful, or the like. Those are human failings, and if God is perfect, then He would not have human failings.

I also don't believe in asceticism. Why would Deity give us such a wonderful experiential world if it were not meant to be experienced? Rejecting that is like spitting in God's face, IMO.

Most Christian or Christian-derived religions have a satan-figure, a being that is all evil and is forever plotting to tempt mankind into bad behavior. Paganism doesn't use that excuse. Everything, positive and negative, comes from the God/dess, and if you engage in bad behavior, you can't blame it on the devil. You have to take responsibility for your actions.

Also, most Christian/Christian-derived religions don't like questioning. They tell you what to believe, and you're supposed to believe it and not ask why. It's a mystery, they say, or, it's God's will....I think that we were given a brain for a reason--to use. Paganism encourages one to question and explore different avenues of thought.

Paganism also doesn't proselytize. I hate it when people come up to me and tell me I'm going to hell, then try to convert me to the religion that would send me to hell at the drop of a hat.

There is no hell in Paganism. IMO, you don't get your degree right out of kindergarten, therefore, you cannot perfect yourself in one lifetime. You can't experience everything in one lifetime. You don't graduate (go to "heaven") until you pass through all the grades you need to pass through (experience everything you need to experience through however many lifetimes it takes). I think that sending someone to an eternal punishment for a temporal sin is like giving someone the death penalty for a traffic ticket. It doesn't make sense.


So that's MY reasoning. Others may be totally different. Of course, that's the beauty of Paganism--there is no ONE particular path you have to follow; no ONE belief system everyone MUST adhere to, or risk eternal punishment.....



Sidhe

I choose to be Pagan for a couple of main reasons. Primarily, I am Pagan (Wiccan, yes) because it is a spiritual path of personal responsibility. No one else takes away my screwups. I can't act like a dick my whole life and then accept Jesus and be absolved. IMHO, that entire notion of salvation and lack of responsibility for one's actions, or doing all sorts of questionable things with some deity's blessing is responsible for an awful lot of evil in the world.

Secondly, I have a real hard time relating to a misogynistic, insecure, vengeful deity like Jehovah (I'm sorry, but the whole idea of "forget the Old Testament, I'm a kinder, gentler God now" holds no water for me). I was raised by some fairly free-thinking women who had never really bought into the whole "good Christian wife and mother" ethos, and I guess some of it carried over. Therefore, I follow a path that allows an equal balance between male and female, one that treats us as halves of the same whole.

It is what works for me. YMMV.

*nods*
Sounds not too disimilar to Hinduism.

It also sounds very different from anicent "paganism" Would you say that this is because modern Pagans have a fuller understanding than their ancient counteparts ( ie the same beliefs but with the benefit of current knowledge) or were the ancient pagans on a different path?

I have no latin. I have a smattering of OE. Isnt it fun? Doesnt it sound German? I love it:) I wish I remembered more of it.

Essentially, the main connections for most neo-Pagan paths are those of reverence for the natural world, and acknowledgement of the creative force in nature. Most neo-Pagans also practice some form of energy working, be that magick or healing or prayer to deities or whatever. Herbalism and a thrist for knowledge of older ways also tie many of us to the ancients.

Where's the Holy Inquisition when you need it?

Yes, I think our fuller understanding of how things work DOES enhance modern paganism. The ancient pagans made blood sacrifices (but then again , so did the ancient Jews, so that's no biggie), and modern ones most definitely do NOT.

I loved OE. Considering it's a mixture of latin, old high german, and french, it's just....interesting. My instructor let us listen to a tape of a man who works as a "minstrel" of old english poetry. It's nothing like what we think. They don't sing; they basically strum a lyre (no real musical accompaniment) and speak--not sing. It's cool.

I think my favorite word in OE is faethre...it just sounds so pretty. I think it's interesting that they made sounds back then that we don't even make anymore.

I got interested in OE when I was in college and took "The History of the English Language." Not only did we have to learn how to read and write phonetically (can't do it anymore, though). We had to learn a smattering of old high french, old high german, old english, latin, and middle english. I was so fascinated by the old english that I just had to take the class. I'm not sure if it's harder than latin, but I had a blast. The instructor's specialty, though, was old ICELANDIC...yipes.



Sidhe

*Chuckles* Old Icelandic? Is that similar to Frisian? Or more like Norse? I have no clue what Icelandic sounds like
Middle English, now that I love. Chaucer in the original is so much more fun than the translation. . I do wish I had learned Latin. Its a real pain having to always work from translations. Luckily I have a couple of people I trust to do translations for me on the rare occassion I cant find one. Likewise with Old French which I have very little of.

Much of my current historical research is based around the latter half of the 10th century and the early 11th. But I keep getting distracted away from my goal by the lure of the Darkages...End up with all sorts of eclectic bits :)

But....back to Paganism. How do you find people respond generally to you when you tell them ( if you tell them) that you are a Pagan?

It's not an easy question for me to answer. I don't really consider myself to be with any religion, though I "work" with Druidism, share many similar beliefs to Wiccans, and am of the belief of one God that encompasses everything and that we are each part of that one God.

Maybe the ones you know do not, but just out of curiosity, what would your reaction be to a pagan that did engage in animal sacrifice and thought the 'new age' approach to paganism was all wrong?

addition: maybe not all wrong, but just not all right.