Dirt poor?
 

OK, I quit reading that other thread about 3 pages in, but it got me to thinking.....have you ever been dirt poor?

We we're semi-poor when I was growing up, went on food stamps awhile, didn't have much in the way of luxuries...I used to get my ass spanked big time If I so much as looked at the thermostat.

But, we always had a roof over our head, never went hungry (anyone remember those HUGE shredded wheat things? Way different than frosted minis).

Anyways, about 15 years ago I was making minimum ($2.85 I think), living on my own in my own apartment. No health insurance, no car, no savings...got paid weekly, had about $5 to spare every week. No shit, after the bills were paid I had $5 fucking dollars).

I stocked my fridge with Bread, Bologna, Mustard, Onions, Popcorn, and Kool-Aid. I made every imaginable sandwich out of ALL of the above, got very creative with toasting and what not.

But looking back, it sucked, but it wasn't all bad, I got paid every week so looked forward to what I could spend those extra dollars on, I actually won the very first Wisconsin lottery ever (not the big prize, was about $600, that's another story), and dug out from there.

To this day I LOVE MILK, I like sandwiches, but popcorn still makes me gag. Way too many nights hungry and no butter (we had salt). So that's not really dirt poor, but some of you must have been worse off?

2 adults & 2 kids in a free standing 1 car garage, with an outhouse and a pitcher pump for cold water.
But the Shredded Wheat had 2 Straight Arrow cards between the layers.

My meal plan ran out near the end of senior year, and I lived off of IBC Cream Soda and Pop-Tarts for a while.

But my parents were putting me through a very expensive school, so I don't think that counts.

I've been in a fairly similar position to blue58 when I first moved out. For me it was hummous and crackers, god I ate one shitload of hommous.

my ex-husband was in the navy. the day after we got married, he left for a 2 month cruise and he left me with $5, no job, no friends, no car. i had just moved to virginia. the guy at the convenience store gave me free cigarettes. i had to eat ramen noodles every single day, and dried beans. i had to walk up the highway to the different restaurants to apply for jobs, and i didn't have a phone, so i had to walk back in a few days to check on my applications.
about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago, my ex-boyfriend had moved out when we broke up, and i had to pay for the apartment all by myself, plus the car payment, insurance, credit card bills, etc. i was $500 short every month. one month, i had a yardsale and sold my drum set, a tv and my bike to pay the rent. the next month, the guy i was dating gave me $500 for my birhday (rent money!), i also maxxed out my credit cards, using them for daily necessities like food, gas in the car, cigarettes, etc. when i wanted to go out to a bar with my friend, i would bring little nips in my pocketbook and just order soda at the bar. then i would go into the bathroom to make my drink.
i was so poor that i agreed to marry an illegal brazilian for $5,000.
he moved in and lived here for two months. his 1/2 rent helped so much, but we didn't get married because of immigration issues..i met arsen while i was living with that brazilian guy. now arsen finally has a paying job and my finances aren't necessarily bright, but i have enough to pay the bills and buy food, and it feels good!

hot_pastrami, can I borrow your 10 ft pole so i can NOT touch that with it?

as detailed in the TOUR thread, I have been poor, but it was self inflicted, and it also coincided with one of the happiest times in my life. the more i make, the more stress i have over money. i'm sure it's not always true, but in my exp, less = more

I ran out of money while touring Europe. I was no Richie Rich back home, either.

So I slept on the pavement outside Gar du Nor in Paris. Fuck it was cold at night and I had no blanket or anything. Old, drunk, homeless men smelling like stale urine use to try to go through my pockets at night and I'd have to beat them off. During the day, I'd hang out in the park - I had enough money for two cans of sardines per day and one franc for the pay toilet where I could clean up and not reek. I didn't have a can opener so I had to pry open the sardines on something. Fortunately, I already had my return plane ticket or else I suppose I'd still be there.

I had sent a buddy a letter of when I was arriving at Hartsfield and thank God he was there to pick me up - all I had left in my pocket was one Gilder (a Dutch quarter pretty much).

He took me by McDonalds and bought me a six pack - what a Samaritin! I slept for a week (after taking a looooooooooong shower).

Dirt Poor?
 

Growing up in the early '60's I never knew how poor we really were. My Mom tells the stories about how she used to cut a can of Campbell's soup with 3 cans of water just to make it feed the 3 kids and my Dad and her. We would take Sandwich Speard, (actually it's just tarter sauce) sandwiches in our brown bag lunches to school with buttered crackers for dessert. Mom would search the couch cushions for enough loose change to buy us a popcicle from the ice cream man so we wouldn't have to watch the other neighborhood kids eat theirs. She would split the one popcicle in two so we could both have a half. Dad was a school teacher by day and always worked a part time job at night just to make ends meet so we only saw him on weekends.
Aside from all that, Mom and Dad raised 4 healthy, somewhat well adjusted kids and we were never the wiser as to how poor those times really were. We may not have had a lot of money but there was always plenty of love to go around. Nowdays people think they're poor when they have trouble paying their cable bill. Go figure!

You know I'm almost certainly going to regret this, but how you doing lately Stacey?

Re: Dirt poor?
 

Yah. Now. Got any spare cash bud?

Sorry man...but I'm slipping towards the poor end again myself. You'll see me on the news tho before I live off popcorn again.

404, good story...sounds like you had a wonderful Mom. I like the spread the soup thing, but buttered crackers for desert nailed it...we had those too. ;-) Anybody ever have "gravy bread" for the main course? I remember laying in the living room eating that, watching the Wizard of Oz. Good times.

Dangit, this is bringing back some old memories. I almost forgot the best, my Dad used to make poor man's soup constantly. And I shit you not, here are the ingredients:

Water
Potatoes
Onions

And you would spoon in a tablespoon of butter in your bowl, and here's the fucked up part....poor in about another tablespoon of white vinegar.

I have no idea who dreamed this shit up, but WE LOVED IT!

My Dad passed along time ago so I never got a chance to ask him, but I made poor mans soup for us one day and it wasn't half bad, considering it cost about 13 cents to feed a family.

You obviously need to learn to prioritize.

Quzah.

Whose hands were in whose pockets?

Quzah.

Originally posted by quzah I'd be sleeping outside and homeless people would come up and reach into your pocket(s) to grab whatever they could - wallet, money, whatever. I would wake up and kick them off - some didn't take the hint and needed additional encouragement.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a place indoors but there were a few of us broke college students out there (which is why I stayed there) and we all had to deal with them.

thanks for asking...arsen and i are getting along well. i went to the gynocologist and found out i had a ruptured cyst in my uterus and that there's nothing he can do for me but prescribe pain relievers, so i will continue to work 3 weeks out of the month. my boss seems to be okay with it, as long as i ask in advance...and the week off work helps my arttitude a lot!
i am learning to speak russian. it's a challenge, but i like it.
i went to open mic this thursday and played the drums and people were dancing and everyone was saying how great i was for someone who only played for a year and doesn't own a drumset! i also sang karaoke that night at another bar and i got lots of compliments. it was the most fun i've had in a long time.
i am still living on potatoes and fish- but i found that i can eat frank's red hot sauce! yay. okay, i've covered my marriage, health, social life...oh, and financially-arsen is holding down this job and seems to be doing well. he sold a lot of cars this month.
i feel happy. there's no drama in my life right now, so i'm better able to handle all the other crap like my health...i also learned how to use a straightening iron on my hair and make it look longer, so i'm happy about that.
i guess i haven't been posting so much lately because i don't have anything major on my mind and that is always good! thanks for asking...are you sorry?

joke
--------
head


Quzah.

Heh, I decided to leave that one alone, gotta make your way somehow.

We didn't have money when I was a little kid but we never went hungry either. We had land to raise beef and grow veggies. My clothes weren't the coolest but they were clean and mended. I knew kids a lot worse off and my folks were always moving forward income wise.

Are you sorry?
 

No, I was interested. I could have done without the uterus info. Glad to hear things are looking up a little.

When I was really young, six, seven or so, my dad was fairly worthless, yet he insisted that my mom not work. He bought a house that was waaayyy beyond our means, so we rarely had sufficient food in the house. The electricity would get turned off on occasion. He was also a stinking drunk, and that made things interesting.

I didn't realize that we were hard up until I got a lot older, and compared some of the things that my mom was doing to things that I did when times were tight.

Excellent point, Els. Basic training for hard times and appreciation for good times. :beer:

i cannot believe that your mother or aunt in law or sister wouldn't let you live with them when you were pregnant!! WTF???

You were pregnant at the time, and didn't see the doom implicit in this statement?

Good to hear that things are going ok. I am seeing a professional myself to help me deal better with my chronic illness. He taught me a really cool relaxation exercise to do to un-stress myself (because stress tends to exacerbate bad health). If you (or anyone else) is interested, I could share this technique with you. It's really good...the first time I tried it, I was pain free for several hours (the good doc said that it helps to release certain hormones in the brain to relieve pain). Just a suggestion to help the next time you are going through stressful times.

:)

I'm interested.

Dirt poor eh? I'm perpetually broke, but I remember when I was in college, I was working 3 part time jobs, but couldn't keep up the pace. I quickly ran out of money and having realized I am a libertarian I would not take government loans or grants so I had to drop out. My father had money but wouldn't give me any. I ended up in a weekly apartment in a bad area of Las Vegas with this punk rocker friend of mine and his girlfriend. If we were one hour late on the rent they put a lock on the doorknob so we couldn't get in. We broke the lock on the window so we could sneak in and sleep at night until we could pay rent.

I remember having to "dine and ditch" for a 49 cent breakfast at the El Cortez once. We would donate plasma twice a week so we could eat. Eventually we got jobs at the plasma place. I later got a job at a crappy second run movie theater and the popcorn helped me survive for a long time.

It really sucked for me because at least he had a girlfriend. They'd pin up a blanket and have sex on the other side of it which only made me feel even more like a failure.

But no matter how poor I was, or how starving I was, I would never take any money from the government because I'm not a thief. In fact I even went back and paid for that 49 cent breakfast later.

How would that make you a thief?

Post it baby. We all need a bit of pain free.

I grew up middle class, Dad 2 jobs, Mom 1. Any poverty was by choice as a young adult, and is a main reason why there are no kidlets in Warchville. (Remember I went and got that dern Art History degree to my parent's chagrin.) My rock bottom though was in the early 80s, giving plasma, ugh, for bus money to get to work. The poverty was hardly romantic.

I liked to find work at places that would feed you- small restaurants or hotels were great. I spent all of my 20s and most of my 30s with short term health insurance at best and consider myself so damn lucky nothing too terrible went down. I did some bartering for stuff and services, had my wisdom teeth out as part of a med study, at one point the Mr. found a great Dr. that was a music fan and would swap treatment for lessons. I'm big on thrift stores and reusing stuff. I can cook large batches of great, cheap, peasant food. Beans and rice.
There was no way that I could handle a classic office job on a permanent basis and the lack of $ was my choice. Now, some would probably consider me poor today, but to me, even with one rusty 20 yr old car... being able to take the Mr. to a physical therapist and get my teeth cleaned for a modest charge and hangout in a crumbling house we dont rent but will eventually own in 15 years... it feels oh so flush.

I think "poor" is really more a state of mind than just a condition of how full your wallet happens to be at a particular point in time.

For me, being poor has more to do with a feeling of hopelessness. That things are not going to get any better any time soon. There were times after I graduated college that I had zero money. I was in debt up to my eyeballs with no income, living in a shitty basement apartment, eating crap. But I knew it was just temporary. Not because I had anything specific lined up, but because I knew that I had things going for me, and that things would work out somehow. I was young, and carefree.

So, yes. There were times that I was below the official poverty level, and I lived accordingly. But even though I was technically poor, I didn't feel poor. If anything, I felt inconvenienced by a lack of money.

Now, I am the sole provider for a family of four. I have significantly more income than back then. But I feel poorer, because I don't see a potential for more in the future. I see that I'm just getting by now, and that expenses will rise in the future, and my salary probably won't be rising enough to meet them.

Don't get me wrong. I have a great life, and no complaints. It's just that in the financial area, I don't have the optimism and carefree feeling I used to have when I was young but poor.

When I was poor, I didn't feel poor. And now that I'm not poor, I do feel poor.

Interesting opinion glatt.

I have to admit, compared to most of these posts I've had it pretty damn easy, even at the worst of times.

I've lived on both ends of the scale now, being poor sucks, being in rich society sucks.

Yeah. Well, maybe I just don't remember how bad it was and am all nostalgic and stuff.

But I really never felt bad back then for having no money. Maybe I wasn't poor enough to feel it.

For me, glatt, the feeling bad about being poor comes because there are other people involved. I don't mind making sacrifices myself, and I'm very good at living very cheaply--when I was poor in college I knew it, but like you said, I didn't feel bad about my situation. But when spouses and kids became involved, suddenly I was very aware of how my situation stacked up with the "average" and felt bad about where I was.

Perth and I went through a time before we were married where I had a budget of $8.00 for groceries per month. We use to fight over the sesame chicken flavored ramen and I made fried potatoes almost every night. This was about 5 years ago.

Ok, who's noshed on the dried ramen noodles when there was no hot water or no time? Scavenged restaurant crackers? Other culinary strategies: A pal of mine talks of the delicate delights of wiener water soup. And of course Kraft dinner, aka ghetto noodles, made with water only. Umm.

Cheap ass Thai restaurant strategy: get some great veggie dish with some great sauce, like pad pak. eat half and take the rest home and use as starter flavor for a whole batch of soup to last youse the rest of the week. Add broth and any veggies you can find. or Ramen or pasta.

Who amongst us has put buffet food, gingerly wrapped in paper napkin, into their pockets or bag. Fess up.

Made meals of fast food condiments? Kfc has the best...

and stole their toliet paper, too....i'm so ashamed!

It would make you a theif because those programs are funded with stolen money.

And man I can't even tell you how much ramen I've eaten. Even very recently. But I've become an expert at it. And I shop in Mexican or Asian markets where you get 'em really cheap. (I don't spring for the Costco membership but sometimes tag along with those who do to buy stuff). Now I make 'em with a hotdog and an egg in them with kimchi if I can afford it. That's right Korean Ghetto style. I've also recently figured out to make rice (super cheap) and put taco bell taco sauce on it for flavor. Very filling.

My dad was REAAAAAAAALLLLY poor. They got ketchup packets from a nearby restaurant and put them in hot water for tomato soup. They'd put water in cereal when they had it, or if they had milk, they would put pieces of bread and sugar in it as cereal. They grew up in Poughkeepsie, NY (where I was born) which has HUGE amounts of snow and they couldn't afford jackets. My grandfather left my grandmother and dad when my dad was 8 and my dad had to start working at age 9. That's why my dad refused to help me with college. I assumed his being poor would mean he would try to make sure I got to go, but he said, "Nobody did it for me...so you do it for yourself." And he would have a point except for the fact the he never went to college.

I know how to stretch a dollar though. Even know I know when to buy rice, potatos, and ramen.

That's not Atkins though, brother. What you need to do is get some chickens and let them go out and find the food while you mooch off them by swiping their eggs. Its funny, I've switched over to eggs in the morning and I'm losing weight because I'm not hungry at lunch, so salad is enough... Anyway, if you look around the third world chickens = cheap protein.

That's not an explanation, that's bait.

I'll bite though.

*everyone join in* How is it stolen?

And I'm no thief. I'm recouping some of my taxes before the cut financial aid so thin that you have to be a paraplegic, lesbian, Inuit, deaf, mute with two generations of unemployment behind you.

And in the current context...

Fried balogna sandwiches and rice by the 20 pound bag.

I started going out of state during the summer to stay with relatives that lived in areas that had jobs.

i get a rotissere chicken for lunch almost every day. I eat the whole thing, too. $5.99 and it keeps me full until I get home around 10, and then i just snack.....cost effective protien.

Impressive.

And I thought my hamburger po boy was bad. Two half pound patties on a foot long piece of french bread. A platter of fries and a bottomless glass of sweet iced tea.

Nope. I was a D&D guy back in the day though. Are MUD's similar?

Tax is theft. If you don't pay it, men with guns come to lock you up or shoot you if you resist. It's robbery.

And if you don't accept the money, you're not contributing to the theft and you're not accepting stolen property. I know a few libertarian hypocrites who make me sick. They will accept such money and say they're just getting their own money back, but by taking it, they are perpetuating the robbery. And when you take the money it's not only your own.

I seriously wasn't "baiting". I was making a statement for myself. But since you asked (and you'll be sorry you did) I've taken a little while to type of an excerpt from Robert J Ringer's Book "Restoring the American Dream"

Robert J. Ringer put it this way...

When at all possible, neither ask for nor accept government favors, handouts, or benefits of any kind. While the realities of monopoly and coercion leave you no choice but to use some government services (roads, libraries, postal system, etc), you should demonstrate your independence, individuality, and self-esteem by refusing to participate in the theft of other people's property wherever possible. Nothing can be more devastating to vote-conscious politicians than to have their free-lunch offers refused.

Remember, in the final analysis it is the voters who are responsible for deficit-spending and inflation, because it is their Expediency Factors, which encourage to take politically expedient actions. The government problem is therefore perpetuated by the fact that most citizens continue to clamor for their "share" - and more.

If you would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem, you should ask only one thing of government: to be left alone! Every individual who stops asking for and accepting handouts lessens government's motivation to steal.

The question that comes to mind of course, is who will take the first step? Who will be the first to give up his free ride, while millions of others are still benefiting from the theft? The answer is you. If just ever person who reads this book would state his feelings to friends and acquaintances, it could cause a substantial ripple.

The cycle must be broken: politicians make politically expedient promises to get elected, violate the rights of citizens in order to carry out those promises, borrow money (which cannot be repaid) and inflate the currency (to pay for promises that cannot be covered by direct taxation and borrowing) - all of which help to destroy incentive and demoralize the public. The public in turn calls for government controls on business in response to politicians who mislead them as to the real source of their problems. The final effect of all this is to destroy production and employment.

The first step toward breaking this cycle is for you, the expediency-minded voter, to stop being fooled by short-term benefits designed only to capture votes. Start thinking long term, which means being concerned about economic collapse and loss of freedom.

Forget about what has been stolen from you in the past and what is being stolen from you right now. If one were to insist that government reimburse him for every dollar it has taken from him, he could use that as an excuse to keep accepting government benefits forever. It is true that you will have to stand by and watch others get the benefit of your stolen dollars, but if individualism and self-responsibility can be popularized once more, that situation could improve each year. The point is there has to be a first step; otherwise we shall all take the last step - together - in the near future.

You may feel that this is totally unfair, and, in theory, you are absolutely right. Perhaps, for example, you have paid heavily to enable others to receive Social Security payments and you are looking forward to an early retirement loaded with "free" benefits. But the point I am trying to make - indeed, a central point of this book - is this: If our something-for-nothing fantasy does not soon end, there may not be any benefits for you when your time comes; indeed, there may not be a retirement for you at all!

If the economy continues on its present course, it must self-destruct, meaning not only that you will still be working long after the time you had planned to retire, but that you will be working at a job that government chooses for you, during the working hours it dictates to you, and for the wages it decides to pay you.

Everyone who receives a government check of any kind - which includes most Americans - is contributing to the destruction of America. This includes welfare checks, subsidy checks, government payroll checks, and any other kind of government check.

This is what I believe every citizen today should ask himself: Is my pension, my welfare check, my subsidy, my government salary - is my piece of the government pie - worth it to me if it means my children will live in a police state, a police state brought on by the financial collapse of America? Is it worth it to me if such a collapse and ensuing totalitarian rule occurs during my own lifetime?

If you now work for the government, the biggest contribution you can make to America is to quit your job and find work in the private sector. If you are responsible and conscientious, the marketplace is full of opportunities for you. And when you put your efforts into private industry, you will be producing wealth - i.e., products and services that people want, not services people are forced to take.

Likewise, if you are in a financial position to do so, notify the government that you wish to forfeit Social Security and all other benefits which may be due you. Every action of this kind helps to contribute to the solution, without the need to become involved in any group movement.

Speaking for myself, I don't want any favors or benefits of any kind from government, no matter how much government takes from me by force. I do not want Social Security; I do not want subsidies; and I certainly do not want government "protecting me" from myself, whether such presumptuous "protection" involves foods, medications, or safety devices. I decline government "help" in all these areas, maintaining a staunch conviction that I am quite capable of making all decisions regarding my own well-being.


We must all grow up. We must all become wary of anyone - especially the politician - who implies that people can live without producing. Government favors, services and handouts of all kinds involve theft, and the proceeds of such theft must be refused whenever and wherever circumstances permit us to do so. Intellectually, the morality of theft must be refuted at all times.

Off topic, glatt, I was going to ask if you were Jewish since 'glatt' is a Yiddish term used to define some of the rules for kosher.

What is Glatt Kosher?

Interesting concept, but it leaves me wondering how my disabled son would survive. He is cognitively incapable of sustaining anything more than the most meager job. Without his Social Security disability check, he would be forced to live on about $400 a month.

So what *is* the solution for care and feeding of the infirm amongst us in a nation with no taxation?

Without taxation, you would have MORE assistance for your child. People give less to charities because they actually believe government programs are helping people. If government today ended all of these programs and people could keep all of what they earn, non-profit charities would get donations through the roof. Government keeps 85 cents of every dollar collected for overhead as opposed to 12-15 cents of every dollar for non-profits. Even if only 1/3 of the money was collected that is currently being collected in taxes, the sick, elderly, and and needy would get much more help than they already do. And the people helping them would be those who genuinely care about them rather than glorified DMV workers.

Without taxation, you would have MORE assistance for your child. People give less to charities because they actually believe government programs are helping people.

Let me just say for Splode and the rest of the world ,
BULL FUCKING SHIT !!!!!!

Poeple give to chariteys because they can wright it off on their taxes , and THAT is the only reason most folks contribute .

Now i have no problem helping out some body that NEEDS help , its the low lifes that live off charity of others because they can that gripes my ass !!!!!!

Nope. Not Jewish. Glatt was a nickname I picked up in college. It's German for "smooth." I studied German, and was anything but smooth in college. It just kind of stuck.

None of my current friends know me as Glatt, but I figure it's a good name to use as a user ID.

Radar's political ideology is usually delivered by small fairies in a chariot drawn by unicorns, don't feed the trolls.

No, what I'm proposing is a real world solution to real world problems. Americans are the most generous people on earth. Every time there is a disaster somewhere, Americans pull together to help out. The problem is many can't afford to help out because their money is being stolen from them.

People don't give to charity only because they will get tax breaks. The Maximum tax break you can get from charity no matter how many millions you donate is $1,500 per year. And to say they only give it for tax breaks is not only a distorted and pessimistic view of people, it's also entirely inaccurate. We haven't always had income taxes, but we've always had charity. Bill Gates has given 3 BILLION DOLLARS to charity. Are you honestly stupid enough to say he did it for a tax break?

Private charities would only need to collect a fraction of what the government collects to provide MORE benefits to those in need and it would be voluntary so there wouldn't be any resentment. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Private charities are run by people who genuinely care about those in need as opposed by those glorified DMV workers who look at needy people with contempt.

With illegal government programs funded by theft gone, the outpouring of voluntary assistance for the needy would be overwhelming. Ask yourself this question. "If every single government social program disappeared today and you got to keep every penny you had earned, would you use some of it to help the needy members of your family, friends, or community?" The vast majority of people say "Yes". But those who support government theft discussed think that they are the only people who would. Or that it's somehow impossible to do it privately, which is of course ridiculous and without merit.

If only 50% (far more than 50% do answer yes) of the people who were asked the question I previously asked said they would donate to charity knowing there were no government programs, the people in need would see their benefits more than triple.

Perhaps those who support government theft think they are the only people with a conscience? Or they believe people are inheriently uncaring and bad? In either case, they are completely wrong and are living in reality. Instead they live in a nightmare and I pity them.

Some Libertarians have proposed that as long as we DO have income taxes, that we should institute a dollar-for-dollar tax break for every dollar donated to a non-profit charity that provides services people would otherwise get from the government. For instance shelters, work re-training, medical care, education, etc. This means each tax payer would have a choice to send their money to Washington D.C. where it could be sent to other countries or they can choose to send a poor American child to a private school, to get medicine to sick people, to help elderly people and poor people get electricity and food, etc. Which choice would you make?

So, Radar, how would say, road building be financed? And are you saying that education should all be private, with parents paying schools directly for their childrens' education.
Curious mind wants to know (sorry folks).

Without a single penny collected from income taxes, 100% of the Constitutional parts of government could be paid for with the tariffs and excise taxes already collected (though I would make them a flat rate for all countries for a more balanced and free trade). That includes roads, a post office, a judiciary, congress, president, defensive military, etc.

And yes, even in a fairly low income family, when people got to keep all of their own money, they would be able to afford to pay private schools (superior education) directly for their children's education. The average price currently per student is double in public schools what it is in private schools and the private school education is better. Teachers in private schools also earn more so the schools attract the best teachers. The price of private school would drop even further as more private schools opened up and competition in a free market brings new and better ways of teaching at lower prices.

The very poor people who still couldn't afford it would rely on donations to private charities as mentioned in my other post. Even when income taxes were ended, corporations would still pay taxes because they are paying for the priviledge of doing protected business. Many corporations would rather use that tax money to send needy children to school than to give it to uncle sam.

What would be the contingency plan if people did not donate enough money? Wouldn't this require people to pay toward charities at least the same amount that they pay now in taxes in order to maintain these programs at their current levels? Theoretically, the cost for these programs would be similar, so wouldn't the amount the country would need from each person be similar? How would we make up for the gap left when some people take advantage of their right not to pay taxes?

I think it is a creative idea, Radar. I think the theory works, but I have doubt that the real world implementation would be so ideal.