Corporate Casual
 

On Friday I will have the third of a series of interviews for one particular position at another company. The only difference between this interview and the last 2 is that it will actually be in person, rather than on the phone. So, panic mode has officially commenced.

I asked the HR representative that interviewed me the second time what the dress code is for the company and was told the code is "corporate casual." Um...what is corporate casual? Can someone give me an idea of what I want to wear to this interview? Would a skirt, blouse and suit jacket be overdoing it? Would a nice pair of pants and a sweater be underdoing it?

Also, does anyone know how to effectively negotiate salary?

IME, it means the men wear golf shirts and dockers, and the women wear whatever the hell they want and sometimes they get away with black jeans on a Friday.

I will do whatever it takes not to return to that world. Annnnd.....Good Luck!

My advice. Forget they told you its casual Friday and dress like you are going to an interview. You can dress down once you get the job.

Re: Corporate Casual
 

If you're a man, I'd go with the sweater. It's kinda Bill Cosby, but safer than bringing up the whole gender-roles issue. If you're a woman, I have no idea. Every time I try to offer fashion advice to a woman, I end up getting kneed in the balls. You think it's easy being a pig? Well, it's not.

Advice from another woman who's been dressing "Business Casual" for years. I'm assuming Corporate Casual means the same thing.
The guys are right - it does mean something like Khakis and a blouse or sweater. Some wear a skirt ('cept I gave them up in protest over stockings and painful shoes a few years ago). I'd dress a little better for an interview. A blazer and skirt would be ideal but a regular suit is good too.

Good Luck, Sneaky Pete

I was always told this:

Whatever the dress code for the company is, dress one step above that for your interview.

So if the code is jeans and a polo (type) shirt, then go khakis and a button up shirt. If it's X-casual then go with a good suit. If it's a suit and tie type of job, then knock em dead with your best suit.

In any case, good luck with the interview!

Check out <a href="http://www.area29.com/sfwporn/">this site</a>...

It has all kinds of great advice on how to dress for success, and how best to conduct yourself during the interview:

<img src="http://www.area29.com/sfwporn/images/01.jpg">

Thanks for the advice, guys. And the pictorial diagram. I think perth may not approve of that method.

Actually, I am not at all nervous about what I am going to say in the interview, but I am scared to death of how I will look. I am so use to wearing jeans everyday. This seems to be a semi-professional position and I don't think I look so much like a business woman. I dye my hair blue-black, and already look much younger than I am. I hope I can pass myself off as a respectable employee. :)

Any other advice on the interview, itself?

Pee before you go in.

Other than that ... I assume you've done some research on the company, know the kinds of things that they do ... try to give responses that indicate how well you'll fit.

No matter what the dress code for the company itself is, this is still an interview.

Female version of a business suit is the way to go, skirt and blazer if you don't.

But I can't reinforce strongly enough, pee before you go in, and oh yeah, check your teeth for broccoli.

My best advice is to not pass yourself off as anything but yourself, and if they don't like that they can go fuck themselves.

Dress up to the hilt.
Apologise for being overdressed but " I've never worked in a 'corporate casual ' environment. I'll hit the shops if i'm appointed though."

"pee before you go" is as important than being absolutly honest... Don't try to be smart and give the answers you think they want to hear. It won't work. Just be honest and straight.

do what beestie said! look professional and you can't go wrong.

Your original question dealt with dress, but since so many others have offered other kinds of job interview advice, I'll chime in with my own (I'm such a follower).

Be prepared with reasonably intelligent-sounding and totally rehearsed answers to the dumbest questions you've ever heard on previous interviews or heard about from others. Probably my favorite:

"What did you accomplish at your last job that you're most proud of?"

(Uhhh...I wrote half a novel and played 6,014 games of computer solitaire on company time without getting caught?)

"Also, does anyone know how to effectively negotiate salary?"

I hate a question about the salary what I'd like to have! What's an appropriate answer?

I don't know. I have limited experience (only 2 job interviews ever got to that stage with me). But, in academia, there is usually a pay scale for a particular job set by the institution that is really not very flexible. Is there more flexibility in the corporate world? I'm not talking executives, I'm talking about going out and hiring a "UNIX Systems Administrator Grade II"... is there really any flexibility in salary (except downward flexibility, of course)?

"All of it."

"All of it."

???????

I dunno. It seemed pithy at the time.

(if talking to HR) I am of the understanding that a fair market value for this position, with someone of my experience and quality, is $X (per year assumed). I base this on salary reviews I've read, and what salaries are advertised for similar positions. For example, I'm sure you're aware, your competitor just advertised for an X at $X a year.

(if talking to actual prospective boss) I just want fair market value for someone of my experience and calibre. I've been at jobs where I know I'm doing great things for the company, making the company a lot of money in turn, and they failed to reward that, it really bothered me.

Damn, Cyrano, maybe I should send you on my next interview!

"I know I'm doing great things for the company, making the company a lot of money in turn, and they failed to reward that, it really bothered me."

Hmmm... As a boss I 'd think how soon that person will start asking me about reward :)

And as an employee, that's exactly what I want you to always be thinking. Then you address it without me asking :)

"And as an employee, that's exactly what I want you to always be thinking"

Maybe, you're right. I'm so confused what to say and what not to say on interview.:(

I always just answer that it's negotiable, and make them make an offer first. If it's too low you can always balk and ask for a higher one, and at that point I think you have a better chance of getting it because they've already sort of mentally committed to hiring you.

But it's probably really just because I rarely have a good idea of what I'm worth.

TAKE A NOTE PAD WITH YOU.

write your questions down ahead of time

write down everything you can think of to ask for as compensation. not the $$ so much as the items....health care, 401, salary, dental, office space, sick/vacation time, etc.

when the topic of compensation comes up, ask them to tip their hand first. Ask what they plan to offer the best candidate. compare this to your list. when they tell you, be silent and count to 30 in your head. silence is the single most effective negotiating tool i know of. the interviewer might get uncomfortable, and bump himself up a bit.

let them know that you were thinking of a number more like 10% higher than they offer, even if the number sounds good to you, but, at the same time, let them know you can be flexible about that if everything else fits.

Ask to tour the office and meet some of the other employees. dont worry about meeting people, try to lok at the people at a distance as they work, and read body language. take note of how they react to the boss's prescence.

always alway always make good eye contact. firm handshake. smell good. light musk, or food based perfumes are best if seeing a man, flowery if a woman.

and good luck, case, i'm sure you'll do well. oh,and put your hair up if you want to look older.

These are some really good tips. Thank you.

As far as salary, here is how it has gone:

interviewer #1 asked me what I would like as far as salary and I gave her a range that I consider to be high for the position. But for a comparable position at my current company, it is about right (for external applicants.) She told me what the band was for the position and it was about 10k lower (but still higher than what I currently make.)

Interviewer #2 verified what I was asking for and told me the band was from a lower amount to a much higher amount than what interviewer #1 said. Basically, my asking salary was within this range. She also said that usually employees are offered up toward the high end. But she asked me if I was still interested if they couldn't offer what I asked for.

Both of these people are HR reps.

Here's my thought on this: The range the first person gave me is probably negotiable beyond what interviewer #1 stated. So, I would like to find a way to push that.

Also, my situation is as follows: At my current employer, I make much less than I am suppose to, even by their own standards. Because of pay freezes, job levelling and salary band widening, I never got brought to the level I am suppose to be. My colleagues make at least 16k more than me, because they were hired externally and I was promoted through the ranks, without pay increases. If there is discussion about pay, should I explain this? I worry that if I tell them what I currently make, they will think they can get me cheap.

Damn, LJ, you wanna be my agent?

Of course, I will be asking you to wear flowery perfume if my interviewer happens to be female. I'll just introduce you as Lumberjingles.

First rule of sales - know who's making the decision. Its been my experience that HR people have almost no involvement in the hiring decision. Also, in most cases, the salary comes out of the payroll budget for the department with which you are interviewing and, therefore, the manager makes the call. So, its the negotiation with #3 that counts. #s 1 and 2 were just practice.

If I make it past #3, there will probably be an interview #4. Let's hope that will be the last. I don't have that many suits.

Mix and match black separates, iron them, no sneakers or hiking boots, cover your tatoos if possible, take out facial piercings except minimal ears, no big fragrance, no hair in your face, smooth out your eyebrows...and smile! (I'm channeling my mother)

Good luck!

Salary?
 

Give 'em a range. At the low end, put the highest you think they'd possibly accept, which will hopefully be considerably higher than the lowest you'd accept.

The thing is that if you give a salary way too high or way too low, they won't accept you. But if you give an acceptable salary lower than the top they'd be willing to pay, that's what you'll be offered if you take the job; you've left money on the table. If you're a little too high, they can negotiate you down.

(not that I really know... last job I just blue-skied it and got the number I asked for, which I thought was too high. But then the dot-com bust hit and the salary freeze went on and I haven't had a raise since, so now I'm underpaid)

I interviewed for an assistant director job at my hospital within the last year.

I was asked the "how much do you think you should be paid" question.

This job was within the crisis dept. I'm in commitment. We share an office.

I know the job, because I've been watching other people do it for years. It sucks ass, involves a lot more responsibility, monthly instead of occasional on-calls, and you have to juggle the hell which is our departmental schedule, making sure that all shifts are covered by too small a number of employees who all want time off at the same time.

Oh, and the position is salaried. No OT, but often extra long, uncompensated hours when stuff gets screwed up. There is a provision for OT if NOBODY can work a particular shift and you end up taking it, but activation of that provision is very rare.

Taking all of this into consideration, I named a number that was about 20-25% above my current salary, knowing that I'd lose all OT pay, and there would be nights when I'd be awakened by people asking me stupidass questions.

The HR director turned white as a sheet and said "you want HOW much??"

They were actually offering me LESS.

Same thing happened with another guy on my shift who interviewed, just to see if they might offer him a better deal.

They did hire from within the department, and it was someone who was on a much lower salary step and less seniority, who was hungry enough to take the job, because it looked like more money to him.

When negotiating salary, the Kayser Soze approach has been proven to work well:

"What are you willing to pay me so I don't kill your worthless ass, your piece-of-shit family, your friends, your barber, and fuck if he don't deserve it, burn all their fucking houses to the ground, and then if I'm in a good mood I'll just piss on the fucking ashes. The choice is yours."

Interview update
 

Just wanted to say that I ROCKED that interview.

Oh yeah, and wolf, I took your advice about peeing before the interview. It helped.

Now, I have to wait 2 weeks until they call me to schedule the 4th of 5 interviews. Ugh.

Man, that better be a damned good job...5 interviews?

Fortunately, I haven't had to do much negotiation on salary recently:

--When I was hired on as a temp, it was 35% more than I was making at my last job.
--When I was hired on permanently, I got a 20% raise.
--When I got my review, I got another 2.5% (pro-rated b/c I started late in the year).
--When I got my promotion last month, I got another 8.5%.

Bottom line: I make 75% more today than I did a year ago. :)

Good luck!

Congrat's Case.Keep after 'em.

[quote]Originally posted by wolf






The HR director turned white as a sheet and said "you want HOW much??"

Just as I was leaving work this afternoon a co-worker revealed to me how much more he was making as an assistant lead person.Nothing.Despite many more responsibilities.And an actual lead person?90 cents an hour.I guess my point is that power(in any manner of subjucated way) takes precedence over what should really be important.For many people.
For me the more I can provide for my loved ones is my happiness.I don't need power.




o

2 weeks is a long time to wait bteween job interviews. you got any updates for us? how are you dealing with the waiting? i'd be climbing walls.

Yes, 2 weeks IS a long time to wait. I have to wonder if they already knew they weren't interested in me, so they told me "2 weeks."

This is what happens when I have to wait 2 weeks to hear back. I start second guessing everything and assuming all the worst. So, yes, I am climbing walls right now.

That's the thing that annoys me most about job interviews, is when they don't let you know you didn't get the job. I have almost never received an outright rejection from jobs that turned me down, and it bugs me. I don't expect every single resume I send in to get acknowledged, but if they reach the point of interviewing me, I think they owe it to me to spend 10 seconds to send a "sorry, we hired somebody else" email.

Yes, I think that is the least they can do. If they don't pick me, I hope that they consider that they wasted a lot of my time. I mean, especially if I get 2 more interviews, which I have to skive off my current job for to drive an hour to Denver and back. I don't have an issue with driving, but when its for interviews that will produce nothing for me, it's irritating. I guess I can look at it as good experience. Still, if I don't hear from them, I will definitely call, so I can hear it straight.

a place that interviews people 5 times will definately send you a letter of rejection if you don;t get the job. I interviewd 15 people looking for an assistant, and 14 of them got phone calls directly from me telling them that I had gone another way. I think it might be required, actually. But,Case, don't spend time thinking about not getting it....if you can. you said you rocked the interview. be optimistic. I'm sure you'll get it.

Thanks for your encouragement, LJ. I have been trying not to focus on it at all, so that I am not too terribly disappointed if I get the rejection letter. I know they interviewed a lot of people, and they are looking for 3 different people for 3 different positions. Each of the managers has to decide who they want for their team, so I can see how they might need some time to figure all that out. Plus, as busy as they seem, I doubt they focus all their energy on hiring people right now.

so...my bringing it up again and reminding you about it is probably not productive for you, is it? *sigh*

...i know, i know, don't say it.

I have to deal with salary negotiations every time I start a new project - freelance work. The one ironclad rule? The first person to mention a number always loses.

-sm

As I'm sure LJ will tell you, sales is a numbers game. The more calls you make and letters you send out, the more interviews you will get. The more interviews you get the more likely you are to land a job you like.

While you are waiting to hear from that company, keep interviewing!

Good advice. I am still at it. I hope to get more interviews.

I guess I didn't rock that interview. Rejection letter came yesterday. :(

You don't want to work for a loser company that's got one foot in bankruptcy court as they wait for Wall St to downgrade their stock in light of the upcoming SEC investigation into the owner dipping into the employee 401k fund to buy shares in a Nigerian diamond mine that doesn't even exist. :p

Consider yourself lucky ... and with enough interview experience to land the next job with one hand tied behind your back.

How did you know about all that?

Lumberjim told me :)

He must have been the manager that wasn't at the interview.

Oh well. There are other jobs out there, I suppose.

well, that sucks, case. sorry to hear it. don't get discouraged.

silver lining:
a place that interviews 5 times is probably extremely anal, and not all that much fun to work at anyway.

Thanks. I seriously needed to hear that. :)

Lj, didn't you have a thread about selling cars, somewhere? Hmm. How is this: "would you like the beige cloth interior, or the tan leather?"

I wonder... :D