Military Head
 

The topic of discussion at the office yesterday: how the military messes you up. In discussing the military careers of friends, we noticed that not a single one of them had "come out clean". Nearly all of them had some form of social interaction issue/mental disturbance that we thought could probably be directly linked back to their time in the service.

One co-worker served in Solmolia and doesn't seem to have the ability to stand up for himself on the job. He continuously takes in as much work as he possibly can, so much so that it damages his family life. Why? He feels it is his duty to not say "no" when his boss asks him if he can do more. The result has been that his family life is rough and his stress is so high he's ended up in the ER a couple times. He openly admits that it is his nature to say "yes" to everything in response to a request from someone above him thanks to his military training and that, despite many attempts to break this habit, he can't.

Another woman I used to work with in my previous job served in Iraq in 1991. She became so distressed while serving that she elected to take an easy way out by getting pregnant. The result was a dishonerable discharge and a criminal record. While she was able to get back alive and faster than most, her family life and the care she has to provide to this child with no father left her miserable, not to mention the issues in finding a job with a dishonorable.

Perhaps the most worrying case of all is of a local friend who served in Vietnam. The demons in his head are so troubling, he explained, that the only place he feels comfortable living is away from everyone on a boat anchored off of shore. Each day he putters in via a dinghy and goes to work, but quickly returns to his isolated sailboat each evening where the outside world has no way to contact him. He won't really explain why in depth, but simply states that his living arrangements are equally as important for "the safety of others" as they are for him.

Is it that the military attracts people who already have issues or are prone to them, or does the military cause these issues for people? Even those that didn't see action just don't "quite seem right" for some reason. Outside of the mental impact of seeing action, are there consequences involved with simply going through the training?

I've not heard of anyone on The Cellar having a military background, but I would love to hear about it if anyone has experience.

Hmm -- should have gone into "Home Base", but I haven't had enough coffee this morning and I'm not permitted to delete the thread. Damn.

UT will move it for you, no problem.

Personally I think the military fucks you up. I've wandered round the battlefields of Vietnam, I can't imagine what it must have been like but it does not surprise me the slightest that people came out of there mental wrecks.

The Army(military) will make you a warrior. But before they can make you, first they must BREAK you. Some people don't handle this well.
Imagine Gettysburg, being one of say 60,000 people facing each other across a field. Getting ready to charge each other.
Or on a landing craft, heading for the beach that's being literally whipped to a froth of sand by the bullets hitting it.
Or waking up in a tent with 11 other people to find 6 have had their throats cut in the night.
Moments of sheer terror, preceded and followed by plenty of time to think of nothing else.
War is unhealthy for humans and other living things.

(thread moved)

Um, where?

damn, another potentially exciting thread topic used for a legitimate thread. i was sure i'd be seeing pictures of.......well, nevermind. i guess i should have know since it wasnt started by NbN.

never join anything you cant quit.

Moved here.

I was in the military. I served two tours, one of them in the Persian Gulf. I don't think I'm fucked up. Others may disagree.
I get along with others fairly well despite my low bullshit tolerance.

I welcome opinions from those who know me.

Brian

You were fucked up before you went. It's not the military's fault ...

(kidding, dearie. Hugs. He knows where i live, you see ... )

True , in boot camp you will find your self at a point were you are a quivering mass of uncertinty with drillinstructers yelling at you for NO DAMN reason . Some folks FLIP THE FUCK OUT !!! Ever seen "Full Metal Jacket" ? Marine boot camp was not that far off from that flick . My nephue asked me " did they hit you all the time like that ?" , they didn't , the drillinstructers just "GOT YOUR ATTENTION" ever now and then . Justified ?? Not always . But you DAMN sure knew they were WATCHING !!!! I saw more than one person freak out , and after ward in the fleet every now and then some body would crack , like an egg . But about half way thru boot camp they start building you back up to to be 10' tall and bullet proof. I have to tell you that it feels good , your walking TALL , chest is puffed out , etc,,,,,.
But as they said at graduation
" A Marine you are now , and a Marine you will ALLWAYS BE !!!"

Sure they make you crazy. But at least you get a cool arsenal. :)


I work with a retired marine gunnery seargant, and for kicks I like to call him an ex-marine. They aren't lying when they say a 'Marine you'll always be', but when you want somebody to arrange your toolbox alphabetically with subsets of size, color, finish.... I can think of no better person for the job, just don't ask him to think outside the box very much.

Sure they make you crazy.
Crazy ??? I say DRIVEN , Focused .
just don't ask him to think outside the box very much.
That depends on your MOS . I was a Dragon gunner ( anti-tank/materal missle ). The grunt platoons i was assigned to HATED the fact I was in charge some time ( oh and they HAD to hump my extra ammo , 65lbs a round ). We were in 2 man hunter-killer teams . We DIDN'T fight by regular tactics , but the grunts had to cover us any way.
But at least you get a cool arsenal
Fucking-A we did . 1000+meters point of aim point of impact shape charge that would penetrate at LEAST 35" of armor steel ( WAY different alloy than cold rolled steel ). Since we fought "OUT SIDE THE BOX " we got crossed trained in all sorts of stuff ,
from anit-air ( radio controlled model planes we were shooting at w/ M60's), demolitions ( You have NO idea how fun it is to blast the HELL out of rocks w/C4 , or cut down trees with DET-CORD and TNT), to training with the snipers ( they HATED the fact we could shoot farther with a BIGGER punch than them) .

I can truly say the 2 things i miss MOST about the Marines is the automatic weapons and the high explosives ( and Yes i DID make a squirle out of C4 once )!!!!!

i have never known a normal military person. i had a stepdad who was in the army. him and all of his friends were screwed up somehow. my first husband was a navy guy...very screwed up- ans so were all of his friends. dated another navy guy-same story. all different, but all screwed up.

Jim I was thinking the same thing.

Oh well, you can't judge a thread by its title. :confused:

However, zippy's image does possess a certain phallic quality, don't you think?

especially the red tip!

I'm a vet, NAVY. I think you are on to something. My experience definately left some emotional baggage, but to speak fairly it was good for me as well.

I was an analyst on duty when the USS Stark was hit, it's a long story, and I may tell it some day.

I was a happy camper when we went to Iraq in '91.

How is it that a tour of a VietNam battlefield can provide perspective. IOW yes it's a jungle here as in everywhere. But many battlefields, such a Khe San are now so overgrown as to not be recongnizable sometimes even by the Marines who suffered there. What is it in these Nam battlefields that makes them so informative?

I don't believe that the military screws people up as a matter of course.

On submarines we are in a position where someone who is loose a few bolts is a significant hazard. The processes of boot camp, subsequent specialt schools (rates, MOS's, etc) and Sub School weed out people without the necessery psychic stamina to withstand weeks of close quarters and no sun light.

And you know what? I like it that way.

The environment tw, the claustrophobia, the heat, the sweat, the bugs.Tt's thick as blazes and simply swallows you into a strange kind of closed world. It's full of noises and animals that would have had you on edge 24/7. The real stuff is not a fun place to be at the best of times. To be in there knowing bands of locals who know the place are trying to kill you must've been hell.

The environment tw, the claustrophobia, the heat, the sweat, the bugs.

The tunnels -- just reading about what traps were set in them was enough to give me the jitters.

Jungle warfare must have something special to it, as accounts from people who served in the Pacific during WWII parallel Vietnam in some ways, mainly in mud, bugs, disease, and awful weather.

I saw a sub training demonstration on a news show a while back where they put a group of guys in a tank that looked a little like a stairwell, started flooding it with water, and had them locate and shut off valves before they 'drowned'.

I think I'd prefer crawling face up under razor wire with bullets whizzing past my nose.

BTW, whats long and hard and full of seamen?

I'm at the local "Westpoint" (read Royal Military Academy here in Belgium). There are a lot of crazy people in the army. And most of the more specialised troops (SF, Para-Commandos, Recce,...) are not normal, because they have to resist to conditions a normal person couldn't resist. And in the Army they are trained not to fail and this also means getting broken and being rebuild just as Bruce said.
But it's necessary to get the human resources you need an be certain your men are reliable in any condition at any moment and this means sometimes risking your life. If you can't trust your buddy, if you can't forget about death then you can't fight your war.
But the army doesn't want (too much) Rambos. Soldiers have to listen to their commander. Because soldiers shouldn't think too much. Maybe this sounds weird. But war is very complexe on the field. It isn't just marching and killing. And there are men (NCO's and officers) who will think for you and you must follow them to survive without thinking about right or wrong.
So yes, most of us are kind of crazy and to fight a war it's necessary!