Lady Sidhe's User-Hosted Forum
 

Hi, everyone....

I posted a question concerning how to get my own forum, and subsequent to advice from that thread, made a request to Undertoad for said forum....however, my request seems to have provoked a cascade of responses asking me to justify my request. I wasn't aware that the request had to be justified to anyone except the person bequeathing the board, but I decided to accede to lumberjim's suggestion and post a poll.

So here it is: I'd like to have my own user-hosted forum in order to, among other things, debate controversial opinions. It's my hope that the forum will cause people to think about why they believe the things they believe, and think the way they do, through spirited discussion with others with equally strong, perhaps opposing, opinions.

I would hope that the threads posted on my forum would initiate interesting debate. Just because you bitch about something because it pisses you off doesn't make it insignificant or irrelevant. I'd hope that the things people talk about would be controversial, things that get people thinking and debating...

For instance...I've posted things such as opinions on abortion, prostitution, gay marriage, and the like on other boards, but got no response either agreeing or disagreeing. It was as if people didn't want to touch the subjects. I like to see how people think, and I believe that controversial subjects get people thinking about, well, what they REALLY think. That's what I'd like to do with this forum, among other things. I'm sure it would evolve over time, but it has to start somewhere.

Sidhe

my hope that the forum will cause people to think about why they believe the things they believe, and think the way they do, through spirited discussion with others with equally strong, perhaps opposing, opinions.

Um, I haven't been around here too long, but isn't that what all of The Cellar is about?

I dont see why not, if your willing to devote the time and effort to patrol your own forum then why not have a go. If worse comes to worse I'm sure its easy enough to wipe it off the cellar again.

If the controversial already gets noticed in The Cellar, is it necessary to have another forum to do it in?

How do these topics vary from current events? Or from politics and philosophy? What could possibly stray from the stew that is home base?

If people want their own forums...perhaps this is the route to go:

http://www.howtocorp.com/cgi-bin/web...rames/read/626

Like many polls, your choices are skewed.

There are OTHER responses possible, including a simple "no" vote, without the backhanded slap AT the responder.

You have posted the poll equivalent of asking the question "How long has it been since you stopped molesting your children?"

Frankly, I don't see the value of a "bitch" forum. If you want and desire such a thing, there are plenty of vanity blogs out there where you can go and play with such things.

wow. i was gonna say exactly the same thing, but i was gonna use " do you still beat your wife?" as an example. good thing i read the whole thread first, or id have sounded redundant, like i was repeating the same thing over and over and over, by saying what someone already said before i said what i said, that was the same as what they said. but they said it before i said it because it came before i said what i said....




lady sidhe:

I would like to vote yes. I do, however, resent having my answer led. I am forced to abstain.

Re: Lady Sidhe's User-Hosted Forum
 

I agree with Kitsune. This is what the entire board is for.

But you don't really need our permission in order to get the forum. UT has already said that he would grant a forum to anyone who wanted one.

I vote no. I don't see those subjects as controversial; they are the floating gunk that people talk about which doesn't concern me much (I am neither gay nor Christian; neither April nor Christian; and neither a bankrupt girl nor Christian). I have a vague opinion on those subjects (yes to gay marriage, yes to abortion, no to prostitution), but I don't really care about them - they have not yet been made real to me and I haven't been indoctrinated in them.

A few months ago some people wanted to start a debate forum, but the steam ran out and it didn't happen. The problem is that The Cellar is already a debate forum. If we had a specific debate forum, then it would need to be differentiated by a formal structure that no one strode forward to devise (I attempted to create a similar forum several months ago, which faltered for the same reason).

If you have something interesting to say, then say it here on the Cellar. If you say it well and other people find it interesting, you will get responses. If you wander across the path of someone who strongly disagrees with you, you will have controversy and debates. Maybe you will learn something.

My impression is that this forum is analagous to pitching a tent in someone else's front yard. The ground you seek to claim is already claimed by the other topics in the Cellar - this forum as you have proposed it amounts to little more than a cellar within the Cellar and would serve only to fragment discussion.

I'm not sure what to make of your point that your previous attempts to discuss controversial topics withered on the vine. I recall a several hundred post thread about gay marraige a while back. If your post didn't glean many responses in another topic header (e.g., Current Events) then why do you think it will be any different here? I don't understand the expectation that Cellarites are going to act differently in your forum and tackle topics differently here than they do on the main boards.

Its exciting to claim a corner of the internet but to do it here I think you need to come up with a theme that hasn't already been covered.

Just my $.02, tho.

Alright...I was attempting to inject a little humor into it, but I see it wasn't well received. It wasn't meant to be a "backhand slap at the responder." SORRY.

If I knew how to change it, I'd just go ahead and stick a "yes" or "no" instead of the others, if that would make everyone happy.

I'd like to have this forum, and not due to any "vanity..." I'm truly interested in WHY people think the way they do, and it would be nice to have a specific area for controversial subjects. Everything from the subjects mentioned in the first post, to religion, to politics....things that really get people's blood up, things they think they have firm beliefs on. I want to know how people think, and why. Call it an ongoing observation of the origin and evolution of individual opinions, on my part. Ultimately, THAT'S the reason I'd like to have this forum.

If you don't like the idea of me having a forum, well, simply don't post there. Some of the regulars seem to be acting as if I've personally offended them by requesting my own forum, citing reasons why they believe it's not a good idea...everything from "I thought you had to prove yourself, first" to "If you want your own forum, find something NEW as a topic." :confused:

Well, there AREN'T any new topics. EVERYTHING is talked about SOMEWHERE. This forum would be an interesting little roundtable, and I really don't see why some of the regulars have such a big problem with it. Undertoad didn't seem to have a problem with it when I told him my idea, so it can't have been abysmal....and like I said...the forum would evolve, but it has to start somewhere.

Sidhe

And the reason I wanted a forum HERE is because I LIKE it here. I thought that the people here seemed to be more open-minded and more inclined to think about their opinions, their responses, and why they think the way they do.


Sidhe

I was in favor of the idea at first but I like the debate about it and the vote about it. I think in future we should vote on these sorts of things all the time. Democracy!

Let's just agree to the YES or NO vote and set aside the other text in this vote, and just vote, folks.

Toad, if we set the other text aside, then you'll not be able to enjoy the debate any further. plus, I'm learning about what people take from the cellar.

Lady sidhe, when i said I thought you had to prove yourself, I really DID think you had to prove yourself. It was news to me that there had previously been a blanket invitation. Don't get your feelings hurt. Since you've brought it up, I have been thinking a little about hosting one too. Not to be a copy cat, but I was thinking it might be a good way to record some stories and some photos for posterity and keep them organized. Then I was thinking that some one is paying for hosting all of this info, and I have not yet had the spare cash to contribute to the tip jar, so I felt a little awkward about it. I'd like to see you have your forum, if for no other reason than to meter your success. I'm gonna go back on my earlier post and switch from abstention to a yes vote. Did you put a timer on the poll? At what amount of votes do we call it a completed study, and enjoy the results?

Good luck, sidhe.
Jim

I don't think anyone's offended. You asked our opinion, and we gave it. It's nothing personal. Don't be all defensive now... you asked us!

Lumberjim and Sparkz:
Thanks for the yeses. MUCH appreciated. :)

JuJu:
I wasn't getting defensive. I was merely wondering why my request caused such a negative response. I figure if there's little enough response, it can be taken down, so why not let the experiment run to see how it does? It might sizzle with interesting debate, or it might go down in flames. Only one way to find out.

And I'm not trying to "pitch my tent in someone else's yard." I really do like it here. I like the people, I like the fact that they seem to consider their responses before posting them. I'd like to have a forum here because these are the kind of people I'd like to debate with.


For the record, I'd like to cast my vote as a yes (if I can vote for myself, that is) ;)

I really don't have a time limit for the poll. I figure Undertoad can decide when to make his decision .

Sidhe

You have answered your own question.

if you really feel the need to try ...

Start a thread of the type you are proposing on Home Base. See how responses go. It will likely not be any different from any other thread responses, even if you establish groundrules. Especially if you establish groundrules, since you're dealing with a bunch of people who have no problem driving across the lawn if it solves their problem.

No, I can totally understand why she wants her own forum. It's the same reason mobs of people run a blog.

It's not that she wants a forum to discuss controversial topics. She wants a forum to educate everyone else about her views on controversial topics. I'm sure everyone here has had ideas that they think are pretty clever. Sidhe just wants a chance to share her ideas in an environment where she leads the discussion, which gives her the freedom to enlighten everyone with amazingly insightful arguments.

Now, I'm 100% certain that she also believes herself to be open-minded and willing to accept feedback, which in turn she'll allow to shape her belief structure. And while that may even be true, when someone is an elitist... even an open-minded elitist... they believe the following:

- They either know more than you do, or failing that, the things they know are more "right".
- While they fully accept feedback, they are aware that since they're "right" 95% of the time, the chance that you'll be able to educate them is so far outweighed by the fact that they'll be educating you, that it renders it an almost inconsequential consideration.

Now, I freely admit I don't know beans about Sidhe, I don't think I've really read her posts in any thread other than this one. The only reason I believe this to be true is b/c if she wasn't an elitist, then she'd be completely comfortable posting her thoughts/ideas in the already existing (and already visited) forums. What someone enters in response to a controversial idea in the philosophy forum would be the exact same response they'd enter in her forum.

But still, with my (extremely) limited exposure I could be totally wrong about her. In which case I apologize if you take offense, Lady Sidhe, no offense is intended. Socrates is probably the biggest elitist in history, yet people still quote him a few years after his death.

Anyhow. I believe Sidhe to be an elitist. There's nothing really *wrong* with that. I know... because I was one. ;)

*votes no*

Just for the sake of clarifying, my comment about pitching a tent in someone else's yard was an attempt to address the way I interpret the idea of your new forum and not about you personally.

My impression of your idea is that you are creating a Cellar-like forum within the cellar - it was a mild critique of what I perceived to be a missed opportunity to expand the scope of the Cellar (by bringing a new concept for a topic header such as Religion or Paranormal phenomenon or Health. I think that a new forum under one of those header, for example, would actually generate new posts that might not otherwise have been.

It is my opinion that creating a topic header such as you propose merely spreads the exact same number of posts over a wider number of topic headers. In other words, I didn't sense that your proposed topic of "controversy" would really add any new posts since most of the controversial issues tend to show up in one of the first three topic headers already (Home Base, Current Events or Politics).

I'm not trying discourage you from starting a forum - just suggesting that you consider defining it a little more uniquely. But, that's just my opinion and your's is just as valid. Peace ;)

I don't personally think that I'm an "elitist." I don't think I'm always right. However, I DO always try to get the facts before I offer an opinion...it's always a plus to be as well-informed as possible. And it wouldn't be only me starting threads. I have no problem at all with anyone putting anything there that really annoyed, surprised, shocked, etc. them.

The truth is, I just thought it would be fun to have my own forum here and that it would be interesting to post topics and see what kind of feedback I got in regards to the opinions I posted, especially with this group. I like to debate things with informed people. I like to watch the evolution of thoughts during debate. And it all would be in one place.

I mean, if it's really THAT big a deal, then just say, "I don't think you should have your own forum because (a) you haven't been here long enough, (b) you don't have a totally new topic that isn't discussed somewhere else, (c) you haven't posted enough, or (d) insert your own opinion here.

I won't be shattered to the core if I don't get the forum. I just saw "user-hosted forums" listed, and thought I'd like to have one to use as a strictly debate forum, because I find debates stimulating and have a lot of opinions I'd like to throw out there.

Often, when controversial topics, or topics that aren't "PC" are tossed out, people avoid them or get offended. I don't take debates personally, and I find it difficult to locate people who feel the same way. People would know right off the bat that if they're easily offended, NOT to bother going there to be offended. I like controversial subjects because people really get into them, on one side or another, and you can always learn something new about opinions and why people hold them.

It wouldn't be a place for flaming...it would be a place to discuss topics that people find absurd, annoying, offensive, or the like, without getting pissed off and going into a personal attack. I get really aggravated when people start making personal attacks because they don't agree with one person's opinion. In my own forum, I (presumably) would be able to discourage that by deleting flames, and ultimately end up with a good roundtable wherein people could throw out absolutely ANYTHING and know that there will be a spirited, but civilized, discussion about it. And like I said, it would all be in one place.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it...


Sidhe

that place is called the cellar.

(a) (b) and (c)

Why not start a topic instead of whining about people not starting topics that are sufficiently meaty for you?

(yes, whining)

I set up the poll, people commented, and I answered them. I wasn't aware that that's now considered "whining."

Sidhe

Aww crap, just set up the forum for her already!!

I'd read it.

Look, everyone....I really didn't intend for this to become a bitchfest. It's not crucial enough to fight about, you know?

Hell, I like to argue as much as the next person, so long as it's kept friendly. But that was what the forum would be for, not this thread. It seems that people are getting miffed, and that wasn't why I put this poll up, you know? I put the poll up so that the majority would rule, pro or con, not to provoke resentment of any kind.

Sidhe

Hey, I'm not against the idea of the forum at all. I just don't see the *need* for it.

The only difference you describe between a thread in your forum vs a thread in any of the other forums is that you will delete posts that you deem as a "flame". Every other point is a non-issue. If someone can't take the "ultra-controversial" subject matter of a thread they tend to migrate away anyhow. Even so, if someone gets their feelings hurt why should that concern you? They should consider it a test of faith in whatever ideal they were having questioned.

And I don't really understand what you mean by having a non-PC thread "tossed out". I can't recall a cellar moderator removing any thread based in intelligent discussion, no mater how non-PC.

All of the points you use to describe the forum you intend to start... sounds pretty much like the rest of the cellar already. I think all you'd really do by starting your own "controversial forum" is limit the number of people that would participate in those discussions. Sure you may get a small following, but what about the vast majority that wouldn't want to deal with most of your subjects, but then one rolls along that they'd be able to provide something really insightful. By being out in the open you might pick up a few flames, but you also maximize your chance for everyone getting a shot to add something. Learning to ignore the trolls isn't a hard skill to pick up quickly.

Basically what you're proposing is a sub-forum who's sole purpose is to provide a place for people to have intelligent debates.... on a forum that was founded as a place for people to have intelligent debates. If you found a real niche that wasn't covered elsewhere, then I'd back it. But like I said, while I'm definitely not against your forum, I would't support it until I see a real need for it.

*puts on his double post hat*

Ah-ha! Yes you did, BUT! You pulled an old politicians trick. You didn't ask, "Should I get a forum? Yes/No?"

Your only choices for answers were, "Yeah, it can't hurt", and "I don't like controversial subjects"... C'mon now, you're trying to manipulate people's sense of pride. I'd like to vote no... but to vote no I'm saying that I'm not interested in controversial subjects. Oh the inner turmoil!! ;)

It's the same thing political extremists do when debating the war in Iraq...

"What, you don't support the war in Iraq?? You mean you like Saddam killing babies? You monster!"

or the flipside argument,

"What, you don't support bringing our soldiers home right away? You mean you like America's sons and daughters getting killed on a daily basis??"

Ah, the joy of word-games.

[edit] As a kinda PS... maybe I was unclear or worded it wrong in my 'elitist' post.... an elitist doesn't think they're always right. They just think they're more right than everyone else.

If Sidhe wants her own forum, I say let her have it. That's what the blanket invitation is for. Obviously Sidhe sees some value in it and I think it's worth letting her have it and mold it into what she wants.

For the last 2 years, I've used my own forum to talk about things that revolve around the Sycamores...I like to think of it as an interactive blog, with hosting provided free of charge by Sheppsie. And while I tell stories and post the occasional poem, a lot of it is Sycapinion. Juju's was similar, though more straightforward than mine. Dave's was essentially a journal.

I enjoy posting to my forum, and I hope others enjoy what I post. If you don't like it, with all due respect, I really don't care. No one is forcing you to read it. So if you don't like what Sidhe has to say, don't read it or post to it. It's that simple.

I don't think I'm more right than anyone else; matter of fact, I LOVE having my opinions challenged. It makes me think about why I hold the opinions I do, and perhaps modify them to incorporate any new, or previously unknown, information that I may get from engaging in the debate.

And we've established that we were going to ignore the extraneous text on the poll and just vote "yes" or "no...."

Sidhe

EXACTLY the point I've been trying to make. Everyone has been trying to get me to pin the forum down to this or that, but I can only give a general idea of what I'd like to do there. Controversial subjects, debate, (and as I'd mentioned before, poetry, since I like to write and read it), and rants that people want to get off their chests concerning anything that pisses them off. The forum would evolve over time, of course. I can't say what it will eventually turn into. I can only give an idea of what I'm interested in starting with.

Thanks, Sycamore.:D


Sidhe

Clcik.

I would like to change my vote to a yes.

I edited the poll and changed the options and changed Tor's vote.

What harm does it cause, to have another forum?

If it's idle and useless or just otherwise uncool, it'll go the way of, um, well, whomever has left in a cloud of their own fecal matter of late.

And if not, hey, cool.

I voted yes, because it's fun to have a say in things that don't have any repercussions for you.

UT: If you are really using the poll results as a determinant, please change my vote to yes also.

The benefit of me being wrong exceeds the loss of me being right.

On with the forum.

I must say, tho, that I think Riddil has sized up the issue quite nicely.

But, this is the Cellar, so let's give it a go and see what happens. I consider it a privilege and an honor to be asked to help determine the character of a site as noble as this. [/suckup] :)

I see no reason for someone to not take anyone up on an open invitation. Undertoad asked and he received.

Anyone's opinion in this is truly irrelevant.

Except for mine of course.

If she can have one, then I want one too! I can bitch and pontificate as well as the next guy (or gal).

And whatever happened to the Arms Locker anyway? I am still qualified to speak on that topic.

Brian

Oh, I totally agree. Like I said I don't really mind at all if she has her own forum. But that's not what was being asked. This thread asked "do you think I should have a forum?" And in response to that question, I don't really see the usefulness of it.

Anyhow *shrug* it won't bother me in the very least if she gets her own forum. If there are forums/threads I don't enjoy then I have no problem simply not visiting them. Anyhow, in this thread I do feel justified to express my views on the situation since the thread asked for everyone to express their individual opinion at the outset.

If you don't like a dissenting view, then the poll should have been set up with only one answer, "Give her a forum". But by having a second option you should at least respect people who have a different opinion.

Well said, Riddil.:thumb: