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PETA
What's everyones thoughts on the latest insanity from PETA regarding handing out fliers to kids, reading "Your mom is a murderer for wearing fur"?
I feel sorry for "true" animal right activists, PETA gives them such a bad name. |
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I think most kids would question mom about it, which would give her a chance to explain the evil that is PETA.
Unless they were afraid of becoming a shawl.:worried: |
I hate PETA, and I love a nice, thick, perfectly cooked and seasoned steak.
I don't condone the wearing of fur unless you kill and skin the creature yourself, and I think it is even more appropriate if you live somewhere where your survival depends on wearing that skin...Eskimos come to mind. However, I'm not real big on telling other people what to do. In exchange, I expect them to leave me the hell alone. I do wear leather shoes on occasion, but I figure I've eaten enough cows to cover that. |
PETA lacks finesse. Their heart is, at times, in the right place. They just have lousy execution of their ideas. They few useful things, like recipes, but beyond that, I don't have use for them. And if all they're good for is recipes, there are easily other places for that.
Quzah. |
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Oddly, I've never found the wearing of fur to be fashionable and I'll even say it looks ugly. Only sometimes on a heavy winter coat does it even look okay. In seeing footage from the 1920's and the extremely rare person wearing on the street, I have to admit that I just don't get why people do it, especially the stoles. Fox fur is, however, extremely beautiful when it is on an actual, living fox. :D |
Well shit, if Quzah doesn't like 'em...
To me, PETA is a lot like Radar...they mean well, but they're just fucking retards. |
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Which would you rather target: the women wearing fur coats that will run at the sight of a paint can or a bunch of bikers wearing their leather?
Seems simple enough to me. PETA has NEVER bothereds me about my wearing of leather...even excessive amounts of "dress leather". Brian |
Maybe this will help.:)
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"Man, that's good chinch!" |
Mmmmm, chinch.:yum:
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Farmed furs are no different than any other farm animal in that the entire animal gets used one way or another.
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While I agree with the animal rights movement, I believe that PETA is rather like NOW, the Womens' rights movement....they go to extremes, and end up shoving their ideas down people's throats. People don't like that, and such behavior only turns people against them. Zealots of all kinds, whether it be religion, womens' rights, animal rights, ultra-conservatives, ultra-liberals, don't seem to be able to understand that.
And while I personally do not agree with the inhumane living conditions and killing methods used on food animals, do not agree with animal testing (I think we should use death-row inmates, myself), do not agree with raising animals for fur, or sport hunting, I show my opposition by refraining from eating meat (I don't bitch at others for eating meat, though), not hunting or associating with sport hunters, not buying fur or leather, not purchasing products from companies known to test on animals, and contributing to conservation groups. I also work for a no-kill shelter. If more people would do these kinds of things to show their opposition, as in hitting animal-testers and fur-raisers and inhumane big-business farmers where it hurt, ie, the pocketbook, rather than throwing blood on people and generally acting like overzealous freaks, I think that more people would be amenable to hearing what they had to say, and would be more likely to support what they're doing. Their aim is a noble one. It is. I believe that animals deserve humane treatment and shouldn't be used as a commodity until they're extinct. It's the nature of the human race to use up its natural resources. And thinking on it, I realize that humans are the only species on the planet that has no niche. Think about it yourself....if we were to go extinct, what balance would be destroyed? Not one. Humans are a disrupting influence on nature's balance because of the irresponsible gluttony of our species. WE as a group don't think, either. We just take. Now before you freak, I'm not one of those anti-human types. I'm just realistic and I've thought about it a lot. My husband and I like to debate, and this is one of our ongoing ones... ANYWAY, off the soapbox...lol PETA does things like breaking into labs and releasing test animals...like I said, I don't agree with testing anything on animals, but some of these animals may have infectious diseases, and releasing them is dangerous. Groups like PETA just don't think. They're so focused on a single goal that they don't look at all the ramifications of what they do. They don't think long-term. They should take a lesson from the Catholic Church: Get 'em when they're young. They should teach their children respect for animals. They should give talks at elementary schools about animals and show THEM the inhumanity that humans subject animals to, merely because they believe they are entitled to do so. Remember, someone must speak for the animals. Someone must be the voice of the voiceless. And, as a side note, were it not for the animal protection group, the SPCA, child abuse would have gone on being ignored longer than it did....If you go to the original SPCA headquarters, you'll see a set of manacles hanging on the wall. They came from the wrist of a six-year-old girl whose parents had chained her to the bed. The authorities refused to intervene in a family matter (remember, children were considered property a hundred or so years ago), so the SPCA intervened, because according to them, the girl was a member of the mammal family, and thus under their jurisdiction. They succeeded in saving this little girl. So not all of the animal rights activists are zealots or nutcases. They truly care about these helpless creatures. And just remember, labs often buy animals from shelters to experiment on...these animals are someone's pet, maybe lost....certainly loved. Would you like to know that your lost pet may be in a lab, having a new perfume sprayed in their eyes as a test animal? Yeah, it's my own personal pitch for people to demand and support no-kill shelters...I work at one, and they keep these animals until homes are found, or owners come to reclaim them. They also offer discount vet services, and spay, neuter, worm and computer-chip all the animals. Anyone who has a pet runs the risk of that pet getting out and running away. Most shelters kill the animals after three days to a week. With a no-kill, you have more of a chance of getting your pet back, and adopting animals is a lot harder...they make sure people have adequate room and safe yards, and make people fill out a form promising to bring the animal back if they decide they don't want it. They even reserve the right to check your income, and to refuse adoptions if they think you're not suitable. Now THAT'S animal activism one can be proud to be a part of. |
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Actually..some chinchilla farmers have been known to eat the critters rather than waste all that meat. |
I think its important to discern the difference between Animal Rights and Animal Welfare. Animal Welfare means you believe animals should be treated in a humane way. You provide food and water and you don't put them outside without shelter of some kind. You also don't abuse your animal in any way.
Animal Rights is where they believe animals are on the same level as humans (sometimes above). That animals have the same rights as us. I am all for animal welfare, PETA is for animal rights. PETA believes that animals are above humans. There VP has said so a few times. She has also said things to the effect of, I don't care if people die so long as animals aren't kept in captivity. PETA also donates money to ALF (animal liberation front) and ELF (earth liberation front) both of which are on the FBI's homeland terrorist watch list. Both groups use fire bomb and scare/harassment tactics get what they want. And lets not forget that while PETA is donating all this money to terrorists they still have their 501c3 non profit status with the IRS. I don't like PETA and I don't like Animal Right Activists (ARA's), I know too many people who have had bad run ins with ARA's. |
Yeah, what Brig said.:beer:
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While I do believe in animal welfare, I also believe in animal rights. In other words, I do not believe that humans, by virtue of being human, should be permitted to abuse their stewardship of the earth. Humans, after all, are only animals themselves, and sometimes it's hard to believe that they're more evolved than what they term "lower" animals. I've watched wild animals who are more civilized than some people.
I do believe that animals have emotions, and scientific testing demonstrates that they think and reason; because of that, I believe they have a right to be treated with respect. After all....what gives us the right to use animals as food, really, besides the fact that we can? What gives us the right to hunt animals for sport? That's bloodthirsty. And if an animal attacks a person in self-defense, it's deemed "vicious" and killed. An animal should have the right to protect itself, I think. If the human can't hack it in a fight, then they shouldn't be threatening the animal. If we'll treat a death-row inmate with enough consideration that we are forbidden to use "cruel and unusual" punishment on him, I don't see why animals should be less worthy of consideration. But that's just my opinion, and I know that most people don't agree with it. It's not that I put animals above people, although I have to admit I like them better than most people....It's just that I think they should be allowed to have lives too. I don't agree with freeing lab animals, or firebombing places or throwing blood on people. I don't hold with the methods of eco-terrorists...this is just my own opinion, and I support it as I mentioned before: I don't eat meat, I work at an animal shelter, I don't hunt, don't wear leather or fur, etc. Sidhe |
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A while back, one of my cats disappeared. He is very much an outdoors cat, and during warm weather, it is not unusual for us to not see him for a few days at a time (and, before you ask, he is neutered and has been since I got him at about six months of age, from an animal shelter). We live in a neighborhood that backs up on a big field, and the cats really love to hang there. Keeps 'em off the streets. Anyway, with all of our work and activities comings and goings, no one thought much of not seeing him for an extended period. After two weeks, though, we were all home long enough to compare notes, and realized that *no one* in the family had seen him. Now *that* was unusual, because someone would typically see him at least briefly coming in to eat, or have a quick snooze on the couch. So, I hopped in the car and drove up to the local animal shelter (the same one where I originally got him). I looked around for a bit, and sure enough, there he was...a little thinner, rather harried-looking, and really happy to see me. So, I tell the attendant, while holding a cat clearly attached to me by dint of his behavior, "This is him...this is my cat. What do I need to do to get him out of here?" What indeed! He had been picked up by local animal control (!) twelve days earlier. They have a rule at that shelter...if an animal is unclaimed for ten days, they go into the general adoption pool. The assholes made me buy back my own cat. Not only that, but they made me meet all the requirements for adoption, as though I was adopting any other cat! They made me prove my other animals were vaccinated, they made me fill out about six pages of questions regarding the pet-to-be's potential living conditions, the number of children in the house, etc, etc, and on and on and on. Now, the last time I checked, animals are PROPERTY, goddamn it...so you tell me...how is it that I was deprived of my property without due process of law? I could have gotten a lawyer and kicked their asses in court, I'm sure (I mean, I have pictures of the cat and his original adoption documents, plus dozens of people who would have testified that he was mine), but that would have cost both me and an otherwise very worthy organization a lot of money, and it was cheaper to just pay for the guy and get him the fuck out of there. Still, I think this whole animal protection thing was carried just a bit overboard in my case. |
Oh, and by the way, I *did*learn a valuable lesson over all of this. The next time I go there for any reason, I am going to lie my ass off and claim I have no more animals. If they look me up in their records, I'll lie some more and tell them that the animal died, or one of my kids took it when they moved out, or whatever wild-assed thing I can think of.
Fool me once.... |
Was there a collar with an ID on the cat?
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From today's Metro...look for the story on the right hand side of page 1 with the headline "PETA on Birds for furs."
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Elspode:
Yeah, all the animals at my shellter are spayed/neutered, vaccinated, wormed, given heartworm medicine, and chipped. Not bad for a $150 adoption fee. I would have been pretty pissed off, too, if I'd had to buy my own pet back. I didn't know about the ten-day general adoption pool thing. We don't often get people coming into our shelter looking for lost pets--they're usually bringing animals in because they don't want them--but I'll find out what the policy is on that, because now you've got me curious. But look at it this way: after all that interviewing and all those requirements you had to meet, you know that, had you not decided to go down to the shelter to find your cat, that he would've gotten a good home anyway. I think that, although no-kill shelters have a very high standard, that they do the animals a much better service than the kill shelters. Kill shelters charge between$25-$65 (here, anyway) to adopt a pet. They don't check the home, they don't know what the people are like, they don't know if the animal will be safe (for instance, we have a pit bull that we've refused several applications for, because the people who want this sweet-natured animal are the "let's fight the pit bulls" type.) The veterinary care at kill shelters is minimal. The animals are often killed after a week--perfectly healthy animals, who may be someone's pet...someone who's used to not seeing the pet for a while because it roams, and doesn't think to go to the shelter until it's too late... I realize you may be upset at having to buy your pet back, but think of it like this: he was fed, watered, given a safe place to stay, and the money you paid will go to do the same for someone else's lost pet. It was your contribution to animal welfare. That may not make it any easier to swallow, but it does give it an up-side. Sidhe |
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Oh, and I do have to say, I think wearing fur IS disgusting. First of all, why would anyone want to wear a dead ANYTHING on their body, and second of all, it's not necessary to raise an animal in order to kill it for its fur...fake fur is just as good. This is something I consider as killing for sport. It's one of those things that is not necessary to our survival, and yet we waste the lives of these animals for their skins...incidentally, the snow leapord is on the endangered species list for just this reason--fur hunting. Bengal tigers are on the list for the same reason. And something most people may not know about the tiger/leopard fur coats: the entire ffur is not used...only a thin strip down the animal's back. The rest is discarded.:mad: And that brings to mind the baby harp seals...remember them? Now that's a job I could never have....first of all, they're destroying the species because they're killing all the babies (only the babies have the fur), and secondly, how could anyone with any kind of conscience at all swing a nailed club into a baby animal's head over and over again? It's gotta take a hard person to do a job like that....:confused: Sidhe |
Actually, it only takes a very hungry person to do that job.
I don't see it as a big deal. Fur is pretty. Fur is farmed. Yeah, I have issues with hunting an animal to extinction for it's pelt, but make all the mink coats you want. |
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(a) the cat had no ID whatsoever, (b) the cat had been sitting there for twelve days without being claimed, and (c) the only proof you had that the cat was yours was your saying "This is my cat. See? He's happy to see me," exactly how were they supposed to know that you were indeed the cat's legitimate owner, you weren't lying your ass off, and they could feel secure giving custody of a seemingly-abandoned animal to you? I'm not saying that you were lying, because you weren't. But how were they supposed to know that? Quote:
Because when it didn't come back this time, it took two weeks for you to realize that you should go look for it? Because when you went to the animal shelter, you brought nothing with you that suggested that this was in fact your cat, and not in fact a random stray that they'd brought in, fed and cared for? But, of course, the shelter attendant who wouldn't send an animal out with any random person who'd claim it is the asshole here, and the proper response is to "lie your ass off" when dealing with him in the future. Yep, I'm just dripping with sympathy here. |
I worked for an SPA for a while. While they did allot to try and find the animals homes they did have to euthinize (sp?) them allot. Sometime adoption was way up and we could send older animals out to be adopted other times anything over 3 years old was euthinized within a few days of getting there (depending on if it was a stray or not). Its a very sad thing to have to deal with. There were times I was cleaning kennels in the morning and when I had gotten done with one side and went to let the dogs into the other, several were gone. And yes it gets to you as their names are right there on the card on the kennel and some of them you like as they are sweet or neat looking. The SPA I worked for was allot better then Animal Control down the street, we had a much higher adoption rate and a much lower kill rate. We also had a long application that asked lots of questions and charged about $60-90 to adopt an animal depending on how old it was.
The main thing that bugged me was all the dumb reasons people would give for why they were giving up there animal. Made me want to reach across the desk and deck a few people. Now that I think of it I really should have done that before I quit. |
Seeing as how were killing all these critters anyway, why not make fur coats for the homeless? :D
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I can't wait to own my first fur coat...hopefully, it will be as joyous of a day as when I bought pimpin' coat.
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I'd say to think of it as not paying to get your animal back, but rather, to think of it as paying a kennel for the 12 days they sheltered and fed your animal. Price that shit some time. You have to send your pet some place to be taken care of for a while, while you go out of town for two weeks or what not, and it's not going to be cheap. Sure, they don't do a lot there, stick it in a cage, give it food, clean it's shit up. But still, you got it back in the end. And if you really care about the animal, you should be just happy they didn't kill it. Or that it didn't get run over. Or... Whatever. I'd be happy as a pig in shit to get my "pet" back if he'd been gone for twelve days. Shit, I'd send them fucking flowers and a "Thank You!" card. But hey, that's just me. And everybody knows I'm suffering from wacked out "conditions". Oh, wrong thread. Quzah. |
Here's a catch-22 that makes my head hurt:
We have hunted chinchillas into genetic extinction - there are less than 50 left in the wild. Thank you, fur trade. However...because the fur trade took chinchillas to North America and started breeding them for fur, non-ranchers were introduced to the critters, thought they were cute, and wanted to make them into pets. They are now found throughout NA and Europe, and are doing very well indeed in captivity. There are still a lot of books out there that have old chinchilla information in them that was taken directly from fur farmers, because that was all we really knew about chins for years. So - ya know - very little about longevity, but LOTS about breeding. Obviously, the ideal here would have been to NOT overhunt chinchillas. Still...I find it an interesting discussion point. |
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I have paperwork proving ownership. They wouldn't look at it. They told me I had no options, period, other than adoption. If I was in violation of a law, then I should have been issued a citation and made to pay a fine. If not, I should have been allowed to retrieve my property and and pay any fees accrued for his care. But, as I said, there was *no* due process. They claimed my animal was theirs and forced me to adhere to their rules and regulations without any due process. That's not right. Even if I got off cheaper because of it (which I am quite certain I did), it isn't right. And I don't give a shit if you think me neglectful of my animals. I'm not. They like to go outside, they're cats. They wouldn't be happy stuck indoors, no matter what anyone says about the subject. My animals receive routine and annual care, they are fed the highest quality, most expensive cat foods, they are groomed as required, and they go where they wish, sleep where they want, and are loved. The cat in question (whom I've had for seven years) has always come and gone at will, spending various lengths of time away from the house. It was not, despite your contention, unusual for his absence to go unnoticed because not all of our family members are at home at all times except when sleeping, and therefore some would see him when he would come in, often briefly, and some would not. Or are you suggesting that I need to do roll-call on my pets each day? |
Oh, and by the way, I have other methods of identifying him, but they said that didn't matter. He has certain physical characteistics that cannot be seen, but can be specifically palpated, and I could have easily described those to someone.
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If you choose to let your pet run wild much of the time, that's your choice. I'm not saying that pets have to be treated like acute agoraphobics and locked in the basement until it's feeding time. But you've been entrusted with that animal's welfare and care, and it has a brain the size of a golf ball. You're letting it out unattended into an environment where it could easily get hurt, attacked by other animals, flattened by a truck or otherwise put into dangerous situations. When the end of the day comes, if your pet is out there somewhere and your reaction is "Oh, well, he'll come back," as far as I'm concerned you're not much of a responsible pet owner, no matter what brand of expensive cat food you put out for it. And if you get a knock on your door some night and someone's holding out the remains of your beloved cat and saying "I'm sorry, he just darted out in front of my car," please refrain from getting angry, much less looking surprised. |
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I still don't have any sympahty for you though. If I did, I'd have to be sympathetic for all the beurocratic bullshit that people have to go through, and that's far too time consuming. I'd spend all day feeling bad for people who have to go through the DMV line three times, because the last time they were there it was seven bucks instead of the new $25, and the fact that they don't take debit, and the fact that I^Hthey only got a twenty the second time through, because who in their right mind would think the cost would go up $18 in four years? Quzah. |
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There is a difference between letting them go outside and letting them LOOSE outside and unattended for days at a time.
As for the windowsill, it's a quiet, sunny, safe place, unlike a lot of outside-the-house places I could name. |
By the by, where did I, at any time, ask for any sympathy? I was relating a personal experience with what I saw as an example of overzealousness on the part of an animal welfare organization.
I don't really care if anyone feels sorry for me or not. That was totally not the point. Similarly, I don't care if anyone disagrees with me or not. I am able to observe my cats' behaviors, and I think I understand what they want from their cat lives. For example, I have four cats. The male I've been talking about is quite independent and is prone to longish outdoor excursions. Two others rarely leave the yard, except to go into the back field (which is utterly devoid of large, fast moving vehicle traffic). The youngest is still figuring out his world, but he, too, seems to be of an outdoorish persuasion so far. You know, *I* run the risk of being killed every time I go out of the house. Maybe my wife needs to keep me locked up inside so I don't get squished by a semi? |
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If you go back and read the post you'll discover the cat could come and go as it pleased. It would come in to eat, drink and check on it's pet humans, when it wanted to. Living it's life as a free and happy critter instead of being "protected" by humans like the animals in the zoo.:) |
Well, I have six cats, three of which are inside cats, and three of which are outside cats. However, being the paranoid pet owner that I am, and being that I work at a pound, we have enclosed our carport for the outside cats. That way they can have the outside they want, without getting hurt.
We live in a fairly secluded area, but we also have possum and other wild animals that roam around. One of our cats got out somehow, and was killed by a dog...So, even my outside cats can't really go "out" out...but like I said...that's just me. My grandparents live on a farm, with 15 acres, and all of their cats are outside in the barns, and they're just fine. Sidhe |
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Now ponder how much smarter and capable of dealing with situations a typical seven-year-old is than a typical cat or other domestic pet. The key concepts are _unattended_ and _untagged_. Letting it out in a controlled environment, as in Lady Sidhe's example, is one thing. Just letting it run wild, on the other hand, comes close to my definition of "feral." Quote:
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We are at an impasse.:p
A cat is full grown at single digit age. You can't compare them. Main Entry: fe·ral Pronunciation: 'fir-&l, 'fer- Function: adjective Etymology: Medieval Latin feralis, from Latin fera wild animal, from feminine of ferus wild -- more at FIERCE Date: 1604 1 : of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast 2 a : not domesticated or cultivated : WILD b : having escaped from domestication and become wild This cat is hardly feral. I have yet to see a 7 year old kid that was half as smart as the dumbest cat when it comes to recognizing danger and avoiding it. I'm glad I'm not your cat. You're no fun at all. |
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I am a dog person (and I wouldn't let a dog run loose and unattended, either). If given the choice, I'd rather have rickets than a cat. |
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2- The cat didn't have to stand in crappy litter next time. Who's dumb?:D |
My cats are not feral by any realistic definition of the word. They domesticated. They simply like to go outside.
I like to go outside, and I'm domesticated and not feral. |
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El, I think we need to hear from the Mrs. on that one ...
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As if you can't tell, I love cats. All three of my cats are indoor only cats and they are just fine. They never try to escape. Of course they like to look out the windows, but that's TV for them. I'd rather have them safe inside than have them outside facing cruel and abusive children, cars, weather and other animals. If they're not happy, then why are they so content?
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They are biding their time. One day you're doing to wake up with your major tendons slashed and the cats feasting on your still-living body. Until then, have a nice day.
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Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!
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Mr. Johnny Verbeck There was a little Dutch man, his name was Johnny Verbeck He used to deal in sausages and sauerkraut and spec He made the finest sausages that ever you did see. Until the day that he worked out his sausage making machine. Refrain: Oh, Mr. Johnny Verbeck, how could you be so mean I told you you'd be sorry for inventing that machine Now all the neighbors' cats and dogs will never more be seen They've all been ground to sausages in Johnny Verbeck's machine One day a little neighbor boy came walking through the door He bought a pound of sausages and laid them on the floor The boy began to whistle, he whistled up a tune And all the sausages got up and danced around the room [Refrain] One day the meat inspector came a-knocking at the door, He said, "I've come to check your shop, or give me money more!" Now Johnny he got angry, and pushed him in the meat, He fired up the ol' machine and now there's more to eat. [Refrain] One day the thing was broken, the darn thing wouldn't go So Johnny Verbeck, he climbed inside, to see what made it so His wife, she had a nightmare a walking in her sleep, She gave the crank an awful yank and Johnny Verbeck was meat [Refrain] |
Sweet lovable kitty cats.
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