tell me what you think about this
 

the girl i work with - the same one who ruined my wedding reception that i wrote about in the thread "holding the grudge" well, she's pregnant. when she was 3 months pregnant she went to the doctor and he told her there was no chance of a miscarriage at that point. so, she said "i wish he hadn't told me that everything would be fine, because now i'm a little careless. i've been drinking coffee, i'll have a drink and i smoked some weed" - she said this in front of three people like there was nothing wrong with it! like she has nothing to be ashamed of! then, the day after thanksgiving, she was complaining because she had some captain morgan and coke, and another lady at the party said something to her husband about her drinking. so this girl is mad and thinks that woman should mind her business about her drinking. well she is 7 months pregnant now! what nerve she has. that woman should have asked her to leave the party. the people who overheard her talking about smoking weed should have bitched her out, but they just kept their mouths shut. i won't let her know how i feel because i'm not sure what i could say or how to say it. but is she crazy? did something change? is it now safe and socially acceptable to drink liquor, coffee and smoke weed while you are pregnant?

Re: tell me what you think about this
 

I would say no, but I also probably wouldn't go up and give my two cents to some stranger. If it was somebody I knew, I'd personally say it, though I've got to think she's heard it all before.

And if I were the host I'd kick her out before I served her alcohol at my party. I don't need that.

No, it's not acceptable, but when it comes to levels of danger to the development of the protoplasm, the last trimester is lowest risk, the first trimester is highest.

So the likelihood is that the kid was already damaged, since the idea that one is pregnant tends not to sink in right away ... longer if the lady is what we call "irregular". Unless you're actively trying to get pregnant and testing early and often, a lot of women don't know they're expecting until well into the second month.

It makes my blood boil. Remind me to thank Pete for giving our kids a decent start at life. There is some tragic irony in someone boozin' while pregnant to take a little break from life when she could end up taking care of a damaged child for the rest of her days. FAS

So this woman having a rum and coke at a party in her 7th month means her babay will have FAS? I don't think so.
I don't personally think it's a great idea, but I really don't hink it's anything to freak out about either. Makes people feel all righteous about themselves though.
Will anyone say anything to her when she is induced with cytotek or pitocin, then pumped full of narcotics to give birth? I doubt it.

So tell me which one of this is an 'acceptable' risk for having a drink during pregnancy?

Actually, Pete being self-righteous and giving a fuck about our unborn children, also had a natural drug free delivery. I'm not one to confront people but do you really think its likely that a pregnant woman who is drinking in public is having her first drink?

Then there you have it.

Answer the question, FNF.

At a party? I don't know what I would assume, I guess it would depend on the person, the type of party it was etc... I can't assume from the story as written though that the woman is an alcoholic or binge drinker..... only that she had a drink at a party, so again, it's not something I would freak out about.
It actually sounds to me like the original poster is still pissed about this woman not dropping what she was doing, and organizing a wedding party for her with an hour notice - and she's throwing her under the bus because of it.

What question?

Ya, the other thread sheds a little different light on this. For me, there really isn't an acceptable risk when it comes to the potential harm a drinker can do to the other person inside her. I've had moms tell me that they drank in moderation during their pregnancy and I've never called them on it. I haven't seen a study supporting a good number for us on acceptable blood alcohol levels. But I do know that FAS is one of the top three causes of mental retardation. The thing is we are only talking about nine months of restaint versus a lifetime of mental retardation, if a person can't choose between those two things, she shouldn't be a breeder.

I don't disagree with you griff, but I also don't think it's my place to slap a drink out of a strangers hand without knowing the full story. Acceptable risk is subjective. I wouldn't drink while pregnant, but I do drive too fast with the kids in the car - so who the fuck am I, kwim? We all have our hot-button issues, and we all take risks that others wouldn't.

Jinx, driving fast isn't 'bad' unless you're driving beyond your level of comfort (feel free to read www.motorists.org on speed limits etc)

It's certainly not anyone's place to stop a pregnant woman from drinking. You can tell them that they're irresponsible retards but it's not your place to do so.

The difference about driving fast and drinking while pregnant is that you're still in control of the car and you are keeping the risk fairly minimized (are my front tires gripping? What are the conditions like? How fast have I taken that turn at before etc). With alcohol on the other hand you have no idea what ammount is bad, how your baby is reacting to it etc. The difference is about knowing the 'acceptable' risk. Just how much alcohol is needed to cause FSA or when it is risky/not risky to take it isn't known. Which is what my first post was about.

I probably shouldn't even talk about driving fast....if there isn't a car in front of me, then I am speeding.

Also, a missed point is that the woman KNOWS that she shouldn't drink. She is weak willed and she admits to that. She admits that she 'wanted' the doctor to tell her that she mustn't drink etc because without him ordering she felt no power to stop herself from drinking/weed. She also know that her husband doesn't aprove. So you have a case of a woman who knows that she is possibly harming her future child but does it anyway.

So this woman having a rum and coke at a party in her 7th month means her baby will have FAS?

If I post the risks of long-term caffeine overdose does it mean you can't have a Mountain Dew?

just for the record, i never expected her to "drop everything she was doing and plan a wedding party for me" soooooo harsh. i think it's really really easy to write on the dry erase board "stacey is having a wedding reception tonight (monday!) at 7:00 45 ihateyou st, happyville." that is not dropping everything, nor is it planning a wedding party and she happily agreed to this! so, anyway, back to the baby, I don't think it matters at all whether i like her or not, i am just telling the facts. she drinks and smokes weed while pregnant and i think it's wrong, regardless of how i feel about her.

If you read the article you'd know that it's NOT known how much alcohol is needed to cause FAS.

The answer is : MAYBE

The level of risk is UNKNOWN. As in one shot could give FAS or maybe 20 shots. Or maybe you could almost OD on alchol and still not get FAS. It's not known.

But is that unknown risk worth the possible effects of FAS which I posted for those who are too damn lazy to follow links?

I remember the anesthesiologist who took care of my wife telling me that the epidural wouldn't enter the baby's system. Don't know if that's true of not, but I think I remember him saying that.

Do cytote or pitocin enter the baby's blood system, or do they just increase the risk of something going wrong with the delivery?

If you meet a FAS kid/adult, and I am sure you all have, its really hard to not get disgusted by the stupid preventable risk this woman is forcing on a kid. Come up to the reservations in northern MN and WI. It pushes my big button so I would probably say something whether I know the person or not. Register my concern.

I have worked serving drinks and I have refused to serve a woman who was obviously pregnant. She didnt flip out, she just kinda shrugged and left, probably to get a drink elsewhere. I didnt get any grief from the management.

This is one reason I am pro choice, so if you do not wish to parent, you may choose not to. Perhaps she's going to give the kid up for adoption, and doesnt give a shit. Perhaps she is just really stupid, immature and selfish. If her choice is to parent, then the key thing is her responsibility for the health and well being of her offspring.\

I wouldn't drink while pregnant, but I do drive too fast with the kids in the car - so who the fuck am I, kwim?

So far, its sounds like you're lucky. I wouldnt take anything for granted. Odds are you'll find somekind of accident. And I hope its a harmless one. You can control some of the factors that raise the risk of injury: speed, belts, carseats, alertness so to me it makes sense to at least attempt that.

Eh, it's really not *that* big a deal.

If you take a woman and she smokes 3 packs of cigs a day for 9 months, her child has a very high risk of being born with some birth defect. (note, it's still a risk. That woman may still have a healthy child)

However... obviously it *is* putting the child at risk, so as a society we've deemed that you should stop smoking (and drinking, and ____) to reduce that risk.

But! If that woman smoked only 1 cig a day... the odds of it hurting that child are tee-tiny. Buuut, then you get onto that slippery-slope... well if 1 is ok, what about 2? What about 3? etc, so it's best to stop cold.

Anyhow, it's for that reason why if I'm out and I see some pregger lady having a drink, I won't say anything to her. Maybe that's the *one* drink she's had her whole pregnancy. And one drink has less a chance for causing a birth defect than sitting too close to your TV.

Buuut, if she has an abusive habit with tobacco or alcohol... yeah, then that women obviously has no sense and is endagering the life and well-being of her unborn child

There is also the money. Your money.
Here are some stats to believe or not. If not, stop by you local public school.

The cost to American taxpayers for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is estimated to be $5 million a day. $1.9 billion/year:
National Institute on Drugs and Alcohol

On average, each FASD individual costs the taxpayer more than $4 million in his or her lifetime (health problems, special education, psychotherapy and counseling, welfare, crime, and the justice system).

More than 60% of prisoners are likely affected by alcohol in utero. It costs approximately $120,000/year to "house" a Young Offender and $82,000 for an
adult offender. Punishment does not cure neurological damage.

Add on:
the FASD individual's own lifetime loss of income;
the high costs to the families (foster, adoptive or biological) who raise and care for FASD children and adults;

the lost income of a parent who must care for the exceptionally high needs of an FASD child;the costs to families whose FASD child is permanently dependent upon them;the costs of legal services for defending their child in the courts;the cost of stress caused divorce, etc.

One drink can't possibly cause FAS. One binge maybe.

From the link "Studies suggest that drinking a large amount of alcohol at any one time may be more dangerous to the fetus than drinking small amounts more frequently."

Come on. If you see someone who's pregnant and drinking alcohol, what are the chances that that's her ONE drink for the entire 9 months? Pretty low, I'd say.

Why not quote the sentance one after that?

"A safe amount of drinking during pregnancy has not been determined, and all major authorities agree that women should not drink at all during pregnancy."

This is a hot button issue for me because it's a human liberty/responsibility issue. The child with FAS has essentially been sold into slavery by his Mom. He will live a life of limited choice and his chances of suffering abuse at the hands of others will be greatly increased. Like warch said, take a good look around your local public school sometime and then think good and hard about your last drink. This from someone who really likes his booze.

I'm very skeptical.

The "major authorities" is the key here. This is referencing organizations such as the AMA. They are not giving you the scientific facts; they are making recommendations for an entire society. They know that 10% of drinkers become addicts and so they recommend no drinking at all.

It has been proven, many times over, that moderate drinking is a healthier lifestyle than not drinking at all. Moderate drinkers live on average 2-3 years longer than non-drinkers.

So why is it that we assume that alcohol is harmful? Not because of science, but because the science is being ignored in a haze of confusion and emotion.

i think i remember our dr saying that 1 glass of wine per day can actually help with blood pressure.......although, my memory for the spoken word is notorious.......jinx?

Hm...child abuse anyone? :mad:

I'd have to agree with that. I mean, why take the chance? It seems that if one had to have that drink while pregnant, then they are putting the baby second as far as priorities are concerned. Do you HAVE to have that drink, cigarette, "bad" food, etc.? Can't that wait until AFTER the baby is born?

Is one drink a day really moderate?

Do they live longer because of the alcohol, or because of some other reason? I'm not sure if I like the correlational logic here.

Alcohol ingested by adults and passed to developing kids is toxic. When the defects caused by alcohol were first studied, in the 80s I think, the thought was that malnutrition was the cause. But further study demonstrated the toxicity of alcohol. What's not know is if there is a safe level or even beneficial level- so, true, abstinence is recommended.

Current studies I just googled are looking at light and moderate consumption, in human populations and also using primates and rats, to try and impose more environmental controls. So far the few Ive seen say that it appears even light (the rat), and moderate (the primate) consumption raises the occurance of the studied birth defects.

There was also a genomic study that isolated a gene relationship to the effects, with various levels of alcohol. So maybe if you got a good genetic report card you could drink up? I dunno.

With the risks we know right now, the responsible act is to put the glass down.

There was a case where a mother used coke while pregnant, and had a stillborn child. She was charged with "fetal homicide".

- Pie

When my wife and I start having children in a couple years, I will not be cool with any drinking on Brittany's part during pregnancy. Of course I will also stop drinking during that time to be supportive. It'll suck at times, but that's one of the hard decisions a parent has to make when they want to give the unborn kid the best possible chances for health, happiness, and success.

Honestly though, I think that moderate, responsible drinking is probably no riskier than a lot of other things the fetus will inevitably be exposed to. But desite that belief, we'll be basing our actions on scientific data, not on personal opinion. There are many things that are probably just as risky to the fetus, if not moreso, than alcohol... over-the-counter medicines, fumes from household cleaners, air pollution, cellphone radiation... what of these? If it were proven that cellphone transmissions were harmful to a developing fetus, would you slap the phone out of a pregnant woman's hand?

The alcohol thing is a kind of question that can only be answered on a personal level, like the Pro-Choice/Pro-Life issue. It all depends on how an individual weighs the rights of the mother against the rights of the unborn child. There is no "right" answer.

Got a link? Was it in the U.S.? I never heard about that.

I remember that story on the news because it was a first so the made note of it but no idea when or where.
20 years ago the U of Mich did a study that showed 1 drink would make you a slightly safer driver. Of course 2 or more were very detrimental.

Sure. Here's one... And another... -- this case went up to the Supreme Court.

To my mind, a woman's responsibility during pregnancy is "whole hawg or none" -- that is, if she decides to become a mother and not abort her child, she has a fundamental responsibility to do her level best to provide for that child. That includes doing everything possible to provide a safe, secure and healthy start for that baby. No alcohol, no drugs. (My mom even gave up caffeine when she was pregnant with me! The woman is a saint!)

I am pro-choice. MAKE the choice, and then live by your decision.

- Pie

Re: tell me what you think about this
 

Nahh..the liquor is usually how a gal gets pregnant in the first place:D

BTW, weed is likely safe during early pregnancy! Cannabinoids are similar to a brain chemical produced by the body itself, and will cross the placenta, but only affect receptors of the brain that the fetus doesn't even have until about the 5th or 6th month.

facinated by this kind of thing

hey, toad....i know this is off topic, but what is the 211.5 in your title about?

It's my weight. It was headed downward for a long while but it's stuck for some reason such as the t-giving holiday.