My Son the Idiot
 

Ok here's the story, my son meets this girl, either over the internet or at a sci-fi convention, and since he's rather evasive about how, I'm not sure which it is. Next thing we know she's sending him a ticket to Colorodo for a visit. No problem he's got vacation time coming. Then she's down visiting him. I get to meet her. Oy Vey. She's about five feet tall and five feet around dresses like a goth, dyes her hair dead black and is about the whitest white girl I've ever seen. Clearly I'm not impressed but I'm giving her the benifit of the doubt. Invite her out to lunch, sightseeing, shopping while he's working, she won't leave the house. She goes home, I ask what meds she's on and why. Boy gets evasive, ask point blank has she ever been hospitalized, then he tells me she's on several really heavy anti-psychoitic drugs and has been hospitalized twice (she's only 21). Gave the usual mom warnings about are you sure you know what you're getting into yada yada yada, all the good motherly advise stuff that I know he wasn't going to listen to anyway. Sure enough, he quits school, quits his job, and moves to Colorado to live with girl and her mother. Girls mother is a traveling nurse. Long story short, two years later, during which I only heard from son when he needed money, they're in San Diego, mom loses job, and the whole crew, son, daugher, and mother, demand that I GIVE them the money to move back to Florida. I offer my son a ticket home. Mom and daughter get pissed. My in box is flooded with mail about how it is my duty to help them out since boy has been living with them for the last two years, yada yada yada, and from girlfriend, all his 'problems' are because I was such a lousy mother. Now son is 24 years old. Girl is 22. Told both of them that if you're old enough to shack up like adults you could damn well pay your own rent, and if her mother was stupid enough to put up with it, that was her, not me, grow up and act like adults, and btw, the next time I want idiot-girl's opion on something, I'll ask for it. So now I'm the Evil Witch of the South. There comes a time when you got to cut the old apron strings. I don't mind helping out, but, damn, don't go telling me what I have to do.

Did I mention neither son or girlfriend have been able to get and keep jobs. The traveling nurse thing means they move about every three months, not even enough time to get a temp job anywhere, not to mention going to school for any type of training. Oh and girlfriend has a large colorful tatoo approximatly the size of a dinner plate on her chest that's nearly impossible to cover up.

Opinions, folks. Did I do the right thing? I'm convinced I have.

I would have done similarly.

But w/ estranged family members, I always emphasize that money will not be part of our relationship.

Once the renegade/black sheep/ne'er do well family member accepts this (that I will NOT send $$$ not matter what) then our relationship can settle down and I could be supportive.

Now, we can have an honest conversation and I know that when "he" calls, its to talk since I have long-since ruled out any ulterior motive.

Best move I ever made - now, I can love my bro and be supportive instead of being an ATM with similar DNA. And guess what, after I convinced my other family members to do likewise and the flow of supporting funds was shut off and the flow of support and tough love was cranked up, then lo and behold, he pulls himself up by the bootstraps.

What I am saying plainly is to take money out of the equation. After they gut used to it, your relationship will improve. If not, it just isn't your fault and there is nothing more you can do.

Good luck - that has to be difficult to endure.

I think you did the right thing. They're old enough to get themselves on their own feet, and they should be doing that anyway.

Any idea what your son thinks? I'm 23 and I thought my parents were going to cut the umbilical cord during college. Fortunately (for them), I wised up and started working and supported myself junior and senior years (except for tuition, which was already paid for, thank god). Minor in monetary terms, but major in other ways, like showing independence.

THat's unbelievably obnoxious that the girl's mother asked YOU for money. Seems like there's a fair amount of irresponsibility in the world today ... no sense of parental obligations, etc.

That happened to my brother a few years ago ... he dated a woman with some mental issues (who was incredibly hot, nonetheless). But he called it off - one day she said he had to co-sign her lease or that would be it. Her mother even called multiple times and harassed him, saying all sorts of nonsense - this coming from a woman who had piles and piles of credit card debt. Later my bro told me the entire family had serious serious money problems - they couldn't manage to put a dime in a piggy bank. He eventually confessed to me that he helped her pay for a few classes and a car payment or two. Not a lot of money, but a mistake he'll never make again.

Sounds like you did OK to me. You don't own the gf and her mom anything.

(Oh, and when I read your thread title on the new topics list my immediate reaction was, "Mom? What are you doing here?? ;) )

You've done the right thing, and I'll tell you why. Because these "kids" are old enough to start learning the lesson of "you are responsible for your choices". It is a fundamental tenet of Wicca, and the primary reason why I am Wiccan.

No one held psychogothchick down and forced these tattoos on her. No one forced her to adopt a lifestyle which entails cultivating a physical appearance that most normal people (normal people being the ones who hand out gainful employment) shun. No one kidnapped your boy and put him on a plane at gunpoint.

It would be different if your son was medically infirm or had been involved in an accident. It would be different if he'd called up and and said "Mom, I need to come home and get my head on straight...I'm confused and I need your help and support." Just asking for money to continue being able to support what have apparently proven to be poor choices is not kosher.

Seriously, you'll be doing them all a favor once they make the connection between outcome and personal choice.

      Seems fair enough to me. You don't owe them anyting. The reflex to help your son is fine, you ofered him a ticket out. He chose not to take it. That's life. Good luck to you, and them. Seperately.

You did the exact right thing. I find it frustrating that society has turned into a bunch of whiners that somehow think the world owes them something. In the "once-upon-a-time" land, when you became an adult it meant you take responsibility for yourself and your actions.

While you will always be his mother, and that is something very special, he has to learn responsibility. It's nigh time he became a man.

Why do people go on about looks, and their past.

So shes big your point?

Ok shes been doing drugs people change ya know.

How old is your son, if hes older than 18 he has the right to do what he wants, if he fucks it up thats his own fault not yoours!

Well you see it just so happens that peoples past and their looks tell a great deal about them.

The fact that she's big more likley than not shows that she never took her appearance seriously and never bothered to really work out or try to lose weight.

The fact that she did drugs means that she found a point at which she wanted to escape from life rather than fix it.

The fact that she has a huge tattoo means that she made the decision to be a permanent outcast from society.

Do people change? Sure. But it's so much more often the case that they do not. It's a safe bet to assume somone who is a fat drug addict today to continue to be a fat drug addict tomorow unless something big and important changes.

i don't think her tattoos or her black hair make her an outcast from society, seeing as how i have both and fit in fine. i think it is her mental problems and her apparent lack of drive or work ethic. what a sponge. there have been times when i have had to ask for financial help from mom, but i never expected it. in the long run if you are an adult you are responsible for yourself. i don't think you owe them a thing. in fact, i whole heartedly agree with the way you handled the situation....even if it saddens me the way people label others.....yes, i understand that stereotypes are mostly true or they wouldn't exist but some people deserve the benfit of the doubt....just not this girl and her mom based on the way they expect you to bail them out. my thoughts are with you and your son. :)

Tonksy makes a good point. Since I *am* a Pagan, I know lots of people who have tats and piercings and odd hair etc., and it doesn't keep them from having good jobs. However, having all those things outwardly shown means they almost have to be real go-getters, sharp, good communicators, motivated, reliable and all that good stuff.

If people are going to embellish their bods with all that groovy stuff, they need to plan on working a lot harder on what's inside so that they won't be automatically dismissed by the rest of the world. I've got hair to the shoulders, a pierced ear, a full beard and I'm at least 70 pounds overweight, so I don't get employment on my good looks. However, I have worked hard for my whole life, accumulated skills, references and other positives which allow me to be employable, even given things which might be deficits in the business world. Most of all, I know how to be eloquent, personable, involved...maybe girlfriend needs to pick up on those interpersonal skills.

Of all the places I worked, only ONE was ok with visible tattoos and "hairstyles that are viewed as unprofessional". In fact in one of the places I got asked to keep my hair trimmed better (I used to keep my hair relativly long, as in think 60s, out of lazyness).
Is it right to do that? No certainly. Wearing business atire didn't make me any smarter, just hot and uncomfortable in the summer. Yet it's the way of the world to judge people by the way they look and hire people based on that judgment.

It's just a fact of life that people are generaly of negative predesposition to anyone who looks like someone out of a Manson clip. (for the record, I do like Manson).

The decision to wear these clothing is made on the desire to fit into the counter culture instead of the main stream. Thats what I was refering to, thats what makes her an outcast.

I'm not saying one should embrace the main stream culture, pop in some Brittney CDs and drive their econobox to their corporate drone job. But a decision to NOT do that is one you make conciously and have to live with.

Firstly, this is a trend I've noticed with you in just the short time I've pm'ed with you: You don't read things. Now, I'm guilty of this as well, and because I am, I can say this: read the posts over and over until you pick up the information. Specifically, your question was answered thusly in the original post:

Yes, he's old enough to do what he wants. But with the choices that he makes comes the consequences of his actions.

No one told him to drop out of school, quit his job and fly to Colorado to be with a 21 year old woman (looks and mental illnesses aside) that still lives with her transient mother.

He made those decisions, in fact, against the advice of his parent. The same one that didn't stop him, because she knew that he was, in fact, old enough. Mature enough and world-wise enough isn't a factor.

Now, you say, "If he fucks up that's his own fault". Again, you're right. So if it's his own fault, why is he now calling his mom asking for money? If he's going to play like he's an adult and make an adult decision, he needs to apply all of those rules across the board.

Your post, r97, sounds like you're defending the son's actions in demanding.....not asking....demanding money. Yet you agree with the facts that (a) he's a big boy, over 18 and makes his own decision and (b) that if he fucks up it's his own fault. So where, exactly, does your opinion lie on his actions? Read this part again:


So tell me why the mother should give the son anything but a ticket home? And to tell the truth, that's a better offer than *I* would have gotten.... I would have heard this:

Me: Mom, I need you to send me some money so me, my boyfriend and his mom can move to Florida.

My mom: *click*

Your conscience should be clear on this one. You made some tough choices, so they may unsettle you a bit. In all reality though, you'd have done them a great disservice to have done as they asked. You'd be feeding the mistakes... buying the drunk a drink. Learning is often a difficult process, and in doing what you did, you've likely spared them from a life of similar mistakes.

OnyxCougar I'm so totally with you on the points that you made. I get so goddamned tired of people not being accountable. :mad:

ThisOleMiss: I hope things work out for you and your son, I really do.

*STILL glad as hell to be childfree*

The 'tude you've got is correct and just. Keep it up.


Sincerely, ThisLSUTiger:D

ThisOleMiss ...

Speaking as someone who deals with people like the GF, the GF's mom, and your son on a very regular basis, I have to say, you RULE.

Your son decided some time ago that he was going to make his own decisions.

He made them, and has been dealing with the consequences for ever since.

You are also quite correct in not footing the bill for these consequences.

Certainly the three of them can be overly enmeshed in their little nest of chaos that they've built. Sooner or later someone's gonna realize that three parasites cannot live off each other for long, and a new host will be sought.

(That's the bullet that you just dodged.)

Continued good luck and strength.

You could have sent them plane tickets to your house and buried the bodies under the goat pen.

Yeah, like syc is an adult. Come on!

olemiss,

I have to agree with your stance on cutting those apron strings, and the gf's mom should be ashamed of herself for even asking for your help, much less demanding it and trying to give you a guilt trip.

*crosses eyes like Colombo*

I just have one question:

What did you do to your son in his earlier teen years to make this walking fireplug and her transient lifestyle seem attractive?

nothing personal, as i don't know you, but I think usually when we have a problem with someone and it seems like they are totally in the wrong, it is still a good idea to look at ourselves at the same time to see if we have caused or contributed to the problem.

be honest, I am not judging you, it just seems like part of this story is missing.

Also I think it's important to keep in mind that "travelling nurse" is a fairly weak excuse. I used to date a girl who was getting her nursing degree, and planned to become a travelling nurse just b/c the pay was better.

But, the end result is that nurses are in demand *everywhere*. All you have to do is apply to a few area hospitals/clinics and you WILL find a position if you have any half-way stable credentials.

It really sounds like the mother has a victim's mindset. She can see her current plight, but even though it would be simple to remedy it, she feels powerless to actually take action to fix her problems.

And yet, it's undeniable: we are products of our environment.

His mom <b>did</b> have something to do with this, whether or not you want to admit it. Children are affected by how they are raised. I never "rebelled" the way you folks are talking about it. My musical tastes are different, but I never felt the need to go do drugs or get drunk. I was raised pretty well in that sense. Others are not.

To suggest that parents don't have a hand in forming their childrens' attitudes is absurd. He is ultimately responsible for his decisions, and I think ThisOleMiss acted 100% appropriately, but lumberjim's question is valid.

yeah, it is a bullshit question. I wasn't throwing omiss under the bus, just reminding her to consider what events or atmosphere may have contributed to the choices he has made. I'll tell you that the reason it occured to me (other than my wife the lurker saying something about it) was that she would call her son an idiot in a public way like that.

i do have some personal exp with this topic....my sister moved to s dakota with a pagan(biker gang) when she was 17......it was resultant of the divorce of my parents, and my fathers dumping on her constantly...among other things. I think olemiss is doing the right thing now, i am just wondering about the motive.....is it tough love or is it just easier to wash her hands of it?

just asking questions.....not in a position to judge

my incredible talent for apathy. it's a gift, i know.


Also, I never had a biker make me feel special! my sis is fine now, just had a new baby....you'd like her, she's a witch too.

again, cougar, i wasn't blaming ole miss. just asking for more background...

Originally posted by lumberjim
I think it was an on-point question but its easy to misinterpret one's intentions - especially since the underpinning of the thread is "who's responsibile for what."

Its sort of a water-under-the-bridge question for me unless there are still children in the nest. Otherwise its really about damage control and doing the right thing today and tomorrow.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that :)

just to clarify....it was one biker...not the whole gang...i put (biker gang) in there to differentiate (sp?) so as not to offend the Pagans(druid wierdos):D on here.

A valid question, but poorly worded... it seems to implicate the mother. Perhaps a better way to ask would be "Did you do anything to your son in his earlier teen years..."

There are so many ingredients that go into life decisions that it's tricky to cite any one thing as a primary cause. Of course it all boils down to Environment and Character, but each of those things are a tangled maze of details. As others pointed out, bad upbringing can result in "good" kids, and good upbringing can result in "bad" kids. I'm one of the latter... my mother raised me as a good Mormon boy, and now I'm a godless, alcohol-drinking, cigar-smoking man who shacked up with his girlfriend for months before getting married.

When kids pull stupid shit, it is wise to look inwardly, to see what you might have done wrong. But sometimes, they just made a stupid mistake, and there was nothing you could have done to prevent it. And most of the time, you'll never know for sure, and the best thing you can do is to make smart decisions now.

To Lumberjim and the rest:

I have no idea what I did to the boy, unless it was insist he go to school, stay out of trouble, do his homework, keep his room clean, and not buy him a lexus when he was 16. Hell if I know. You could ask my parents the same question, and they say the same thing. Kids are a crapshoot, and the second you start bragging on them that's when they're sure to do something stupid. Lord knows I did my share of stuff my parents would never approve of, and hopefully won't ever find out about.

Her size wouldn't count if she had any sort of personality, which, basically, she doesn't. Dyed hair? Went through that stage myself, got over it. Tatoo? I also have one, easily concealed, and I got mine years ago, when only 'biker chicks' had them. Now I wish there was a reasonable way to get rid of the thing, cause now it isn't even unusual. The goth thing? Don't have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with is she has a thing about death, and reguarly tries to communicate with the dead, with no luck so far, which may show just how lacking in personality she is. She claims to be a 'pagan' also, and since I am a Wiccan priestess, this is not a problem, however, her attraction to the 'dark' side is somewhat worrisome.

Like the idea about burying the bodies under the goat pen though.

Thank you (with my best curtsy)
It would appear you are the exception to the rule that says "It's always the mothers fault".;)