Mozilla Question
 

Ok, so I'm at home and I DL'ed Mozilla Firebird and Thunderbird. I really wanna give this a shot. So I'm going through my settings, trying to get acclimated, and I see this:
Well, it didn't work. I closed the browser and reopened, just in case, (because the whole toolbar customization taught me to close and restart the browser when you change something). Still nothing. When I click on my cellar subscription notification, it replaces my home page, not opens a new tab. Which I really really want it to do.

Any suggestions?

Try removing the code from your user.js file, and instead click the "Enable/Disable DDE support by needs automatically" under TBE's Advanced settings.

You are clicking a link in another program, and not inside Firebird, right?

This works perfectly for me, so I know it's possible. :)

Moz/Firebird users exclusive:

http://mab.mozdev.org/

Search Amazon with this cool tool.

Click on "Start MAB Now" in the upper-right-hand area of the page.

If you like it, you can install it to your Tools button with a single click from the Installation page.

Doesn't work at home, which is pissin me off.

edit: I just futzed with it some more, it does work now.

Okay...someone tell me why this browser everyone seems to have to fight with is an improvement over IE or Netscape?

I'm not arguing, I'm actually interested in hearing the advantages.

--It is essentially NS, only more stable
--Tabbed browsing
--Junk mail interceptor
--Pop-up blocker
--Uses "themes", which give it a unique look.

I love it...very rarely do I use IE at home anymore.

It's only going to get better. I started using Mozilla in 1999, although I didn't convert to Mozilla Mail until just recently. The browser has come a very long way since then. IE, meanwhile, has almost stood pat... no innovation, just security patches and legal mumbo jumbo.

What is tabbed browsing?

I got this one, fellas.

This page explains it all.

Uhhhh sorry.

Dickhead.

Anyway, basically the benefit is that you're more capable of multitasking, and you spend less time fucking around and more time reading.

Tabbed browsing is only useful if you find yourself having more than one browser window open at a time. Actually, that's not true. It's useful if you only use one, because then you're probably not reading everything you want to for fear of losing your place.

It starts like this: you see three stories on the CNN front page you want to read. Right click on one of them...

http://msdelta.net/~dave/images/cellar/tab-03.jpg

And click "Open Link in New Tab". A new tab is opened, sorta like this:

http://msdelta.net/~dave/images/cellar/tab-01.jpg

So now you've got a few pages open. You click to another one

http://msdelta.net/~dave/images/cellar/tab-02.jpg

But the others are still available. <b>All in a single window!</b>

Then, when you're done reading one page, you can go to the next.

It also allows you to open a link that has, say, maybe a lot of pictures, and let it load while you read what you're currently reading. The icon will change in the tab when it's done loading, and you know that it's ready to read. This is extremely convenient.

The page Tony linked is one that I was going to link as well, so go ahead and check that out. (For me, it would be right-clicking on it and opening it in a new tab.) Honestly, once you use it, it's a feature you can't live without. I highly recommend you switch from whatever you're using now and get with something that's faster, more secure, more standards-compliant and <b>designed to be pleasant to use</b>. The popup blocking is what originally got me using Mozilla (that, and it was the only decent fucking browser on the shitty OS desktop platform know as Linux). Tons of features since then have kept me here. I only use IE to do my timecard at work, and only then because I'm too lazy to install the JRE so it'll work in Mozilla.

Do yourself a favor and switch.

The reason that people are messing around with Mozilla's settings and sometimes having trouble with it is that you can actually do a lot of cool stuff in Mozilla, much more than you're going to find in the defaults. On two occasions, I've browsed the list of extensions and thought "hey that's cool!" and installed a few. I should do that again soon. One of my favorites was Nuke Image, to remove that annoying blinking green-and-red banner ad when it showed up.

IE feels like it's hardly seen anything new since the back button.

There is so much cool stuff going on with Mozilla. For some time (until I switched to firebird, and support didn't exist for a long time), I used the Mouse Gestures extension. One of the things I really liked about it was that I could [with a mouse button held down] scribble the cursor over a bunch of links, then make a gesture with the mouse and it would open all of the links I had scribbled over in new tabs in the background, This was fun for browsing forums where there were a few new posts in several different threads.

Reading forums is so much better with tabs. You open all of the threads with new posts in tabs, then click around and read them. Researching something or another with Google is the same story.

Netscape is based off the Mozilla codebase; *not* the other way around.

Okay...well, where do I go to download it. I'm so frigging sick of having to have multiple instances of IE open to have multiple pages to which I'm referring (like when I'm fact checking on The Cellar before posting a reply), I'd be willing to try this.

http://www.mozilla.org

Firebird is the lightweight browser-only deal. It's still in development and isn't as complete as Mozilla, but it's still really good. Many thousands of people use this every day as their only browser.

Mozilla is the big beast, containing everything you need (and probably a lot that you don't). It's slower, but it's a more polished product. Get a stable milestone (latest is 1.4) and you'll be happy.

I can recommend either of the browsers; Firebird is what we've been talking about here, but they basically have feature parity between the two (Firebird is based on the Mozilla code). Firebird is just snappier and smaller. The screenshots I posted are of Firebird.

Firebird and Mozilla straight out of the box are very usable. People only have problems when they try to customize it exactly the way they want, which isn't always straightforward. But <B>at least you can</B> customize them, unlike IE.

I'm assuming you have IE as your default browser. How many times have you clicked a link in another program (i.e. email) and it re-used a browser window you already had and didn't want to lose? That <B>never</B> happens to me anymore now that I use Firebird. With IE, the behavior seems to be completely random. I've even had it re-use File Explorer windows before.

All because Microsoft integrated IE tightly into their OS, so they could claim they were inseparable in court. Now that they "won" the browser wars, innovation in IE has come to a screeching halt.

I also use the mouse gestures extension, just one example of a great way to customize it to do what I want. Instead of having to click the back button, I "rock" my right then left moust buttons. It's amazing what a timesaver that is for someone who browses as much as I do.

And about ad blocking: Microsoft will never integrate popup blocking into IE. It's not in their interest to do so, because they want to sell ads on MSN and their other services. So you can get whatever ad-blocking IE plugins you want, but it's still a workaround. Mozilla/Firebird have ad-blocking <I>built-in</I>, which means I can say "don't open <I>any</i> unrequested windows, period", and it doesn't. I have never had to play one single game of whack-a-mole since switching to Firebird, while it was almost a daily occurence with IE.

And in case you're wondering what the difference is between Mozilla and Firebird: Mozilla is the full "suite" of browser, email, calendar, etc., while Firebird is just the standalone browser. Firebird isn't at 1.0 release level yet, but many people (including me) like it better than Mozilla because it's lighter, faster, and has some better features.

I've been using the Google search bar in IE, which now features a great popup killer, so I've been happy with that, but I am still going to try Firebird, based on all the praise you guys are giving it. I'll let you know how it works out for me!

Okay, next question. Surely, Mozilla doesn't require me to re-download all the plugins that IE uses (cookies, Flash, stuff like that). So how do I get Mozilla Firebird to import all that shit, rather than doubling up on the stuff and chewing up more drivespace?

Cookies aren't plugins; they're browser-specific and you'll need to re-login to the sites you have cookies set at so that the cookies can be re-set.

As far as Flash, I think that should all be set up. It is on my Linux install and I'm pretty sure it is at home as well (I use a Linux workstation at work for a lot of stuff, but Windows at home 'cause I only like Linux if I'm getting paid for it). If it's not, you'll need to download the plugin from http://www.macromedia.com/go/gnavtray_dl_flashpl

Installation is pretty easy, and it's only a few hundred K, or a fraction of an MP3. So don't worry about it.

Next problem for the experienced. I'm using Logitech Marbleman. None of the features that work everywhere else (like holding down two side buttons simultaneously for universal scrolling) work in Mozilla. I seem to be forced to use the damn scroll bar. Basically, I can't get any functions that are equivalent to mouse wheel functions to work. Ideas?

Also, Mouse Gestures extension appears not to work at all.

Ok Techie help line...
I'm using Mozilla as a browser and would love to ditch my netscape mail and use mozilla mail if its workin' But I'm Really dumb about this and will want to move some messages, boxes, and not lose my address book. Anyone willing to coach me via PMs? :)

Yes, except my requirement is that we set up a time in PM that I can call you, because I can't stand typing tech support. It's much easier to just talk through.

Ha! I dont blame you dave, thanks.

I'm surprised I haven't heard Opera mentioned much...it supports tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, an annoying "Wand" feature that some might like, especially pr0n browsers, mail, lotsa skins to make it look purty and a customizable desktop. Except for an occaisional runtime error that doesn't tell me anything and closes my browser when I'm in the middle of something, there haven't been any problems with it.

I will put up the Opera version for x386 when I get my computer up and running next month.

Brian

Els, you will unfortunately have to re-download Flash and other such plugins. They aren't included with the Windows version, and I'm not so sure the executable is the same for Mozilla as it is IE. They really aren't that big, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I'm not sure why your mouse's universal-scrolling shortcut isn't working. As far as mouse gestures, did you restart Firebird after installing it? Which gestures are you trying to get to work?

Paying for a browser is so ten years ago.

The reason I don't use Opera is "What's CSS?"

I always middle-click on a link to open it in a new tab. It's much faster than navigating that silly little menu.

For the newbies, you can turn that option on in your preferences under "tabbed browsing".

BTW, UT, that Amazon app really impressed me. Now I finally understand what all the "Mozilla isn't just a browser" hype is about.

Good point, juju, I was gonna mention that and forgot.

For the truly eccentric, Tabbrowser Extensions is a requirement. I don't remember what I did before I could reorder tabs (or windows, in those black IE days). And the it fixes one of my biggest gripes with Mozilla: when you open a new tab, the history of the previous tab doesn't come along with it. "Duplicate tab" fixes this, and is conveniently accessible with a double-click by default.

Actually, only parts of the trackball work, and those are the ones directly analogous to the the normal parts of a mouse...left button, right button, click both together to simulate a third button, and the motion, of course. But I can't make it scroll without grabbing the window scroll bar. This alone is going to be enough to disallow the program, damn it. I cannot live without a scrollwheel function.

I only experimented with the "back' gesture at first, but then I tried a few others. Nuthin...and I did restart after install.

That's exceptionally weird, 'cause scrolling works on every platform with every mouse I've ever tried. Perhaps you need to reinstall you Logitech software? You did say you had a Logitech, right?

Alas, it does look like Mouse Gestures aren't working for Firebird anymore.

The tabbrowser extensions preserves the history when you open new tabs! Nice! I'm going to have to get that, then.

Elspode, you don't /have/ to re-download Flash. You can delete the null library, and it won't prompt you to install Flash again. Or, you can get the flash click-to-view extension which disables replaces flash with a button, and only if you click the button does it play the flash file.

I love Opera and I'm using it right now.

Opera won't work for everything (But very rarely does it display a web page incorrectly) but its soooo good I can put up with a limitation or two. I LOVE the "delete private data" menu item which deletes about 20 things such as cache, history, passwords, etc. with a single click - its very customizable.

As dave points out, Opera is not good for CSS (used a lot in online shopping sites) but that's fine - I use IE for online shopping, anyway.

Give it a whirl. I have not had much luch with Mozilla and I have given it a fair chance.

Are you guys serious? CSS support is really that broken in Opera? And people <b>pay</b> for it?! WTF?

I have Mouse Gestures installed with 0.6.1. I only use the "rocker" gestures, not the regular ones, but that part at least works fine for me.

Again, Opera's support of CSS basically boils down to "What's CSS?"

Well here's what they claim to support:

http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/css/

Pay??? As in money??? For a browser????

:D Guffaw!! Stop - yer killin' me!!! :D

I don't use Opera, so I can't say for sure, but "supporting" CSS, and implementing it correctly, could be two different things.

so, what *IS* CSS?

I'm using Opera now and my only complaint is it doesn't recognize some weird URL type. MMV or something like that

is this something I actually need?

or might this be something that is fixed in the next version or even the registered version?
I'm using the free version now, BTW Tob.
But I do intend to (one of these days) register the shareware programs I use most.

Brian

Cascading Style Sheets.

This goes along somewhat with UT's discussion of XML/RSS in the other thread. People recently realized it would be a good idea to separate a website's content from its layout and formatting.

So, instead of specifying font styles and whatnot within the web page itself, that info is contained in a separate CSS file. It is much easier to design and change web pages this way, and it gives much greater control of how the page looks.

It also makes it much easier to target different types of devices. For example, CSS makes it very easy to specify a certain layout for screen display, and a simpler, stripped-down version for printing. It makes those "printer-friendly version" links obsolete -- the browser simply uses the correct style info for the proper use.

Since it allows much more fine-grained control, it's also more difficult to implement in the browsers. So some browsers handle it better than others. It doesn't take a web designer long to realize that IE is broken in many ways when it comes to rendering CSS correctly. Mozilla/Firebird get it right much more often.

I've never actually used Opera, so I can't speak to how well it does or doesn't handle it.

For example, this is the stylesheet I use for my website:

http://comp.uark.edu/~dmorton/stylesheet.css