8/21/2003: Huge pig sacrificed
 

http://cellar.org/2003/hugepig.jpg

It's an animal picture, but if it's Thursday it must be sad.

The pig is a winner: it's 2116 pounds (960 kilograms), and has won the "Pigs of God" contest.

Unfortunately for the pig, that means it was the largest pig killed in a sacrificial ceremony. It was the largest of 30 such sacrificed pigs, who are neutered at an early age and then force-fed to get them to reach enormous weights.

All for the purpose of this traditional religious ritual of the Hakka people of Taiwan, a culture that makes up about 15% of the island's population.

Sort of makes the "Have you seen the little piggies?" theme not apply, huh?

So...do they eventually have one hell of a pig roast or what?

I live in Vancouver, BC. Our local talk/news radio had a rep. from WSPA on for about an hour discussing this.

I can understand how these type of things get started (this is my best guess, Google only brought me to protest pages) get the population to grow massive pigs to increase the food supply under the guise of a contest.

Problem is that the food isn't needed anymore but because it's 'tradition', it continues. I bet most of the people involved don't know why the contest exists, only that tradition dictates it continue.

Somewhere in North America there is another 'tradition' involving hurting animals. It's called a suicide run involving men riding horses along a course at full speed and ending with a run down a severely steep sandy slope straight into a river. Men & horses being injured is standard, being killed is a definate possiblity. According to participants this is part of First Nation peoples heritage. I find this very hard to believe because (from what I've read) Indian braves treated their horses like family. The were an integral part of a warrior's 'make-up'. I don't think they'd risk injuring/killing their mounts just to prove their bravery. I believe they had trials that only involved the warrior, most of the time unarmed.

why did they neuter them?

does that make them grow bigger? ...

Sure. I was skinny till my second wifes lawyer cut my........;)

I believe it does. Once their neutered they don't spend every waking moment running around trying to screw everyting in sight. They get lazy and figure stuffing their face is the next best thing.

Really thought, it's true. Most domesticated animals who get snipped (male and female) tend to gain weight. You know, like the neighbor's Cocker Spaniel who looks like a torpedo with chicken legs.:eek:

It also makes them taste better. Hey, I'm serious here.

Just how many times have you been married? I would think after losing your manhood you would have a rather difficult time finding number three?:eek3:

Naw, I'm always on the lookout for my next ex. As women...ah...er...mature the horizontal bop is less important than other traits. Someone to steer them in the right direction.:cool:

Now don't get me wrong Stonan, I'm probably one of the biggest animal rights advocates in the Cellar, but I don't think this 'tradition' was started under the 'guise' of a contest. If they were that hungry, they would have just grown big pigs and ate them. I'm also not sure that most involved don't know the origin of the tradition. In most places where traditions exist, especially outside the US, the origins have been passed down through the generations. They like to tell stories and talk about their ancestors and stuff like that. It's really not about how the tradition started, but what purpose does it serve in today's society. Most continue for entertainment purposes. I'm by no means against traditions, but do take issue with those that involve animal cruelty. Go ahead, have a log rolling contest or a tree climbing contest (granted those aren't very good examples), but don't hurt or kill an innocent animal in the process just to get your jollies off it.

Now as far as killing the piggies as part of a sacrifical contest I disagree totally. Unless, of course, they aren't tortured and are eaten afterwards. I agree that they probably do suffer pain by being forced to be so overweight, but it is difficult to break traditions of other countries when we are looked upon as outsiders. Take bullfighting, for example. Now don't even get me going on that. This has to be one of the cruelest, inhumane forms of animal torture I know. Who cares how it became a tradition, it just needs to be stopped. As far as I can see it is done now as mainly a form of entertainment. Who needs that when there's the Internet. Seriously though, animal activists have tried to stop it for years without much success. I think in order to stop such inhumane traditions we need to get the native people involved in helping. Most foreigners don't want to hear anything American's have to say, but slowly they might begin listening if their own people started to oppose such acts.

I've also heard of the "suicide run" in North America. Another stupid event even if it is a Native American tradition. It obviously serves no purpose in the modern world other than to entertain. Once again, why do people need to be entertained by watching and participating in animal cruelty. There are so many other things they could be doing like jumping on each others backs and running full speed down the hill ending with a face-plant in the water:p

All right, I can probably go along w/ that, but just how many times have you been married?:p

Didn't pick up on steer? Legally, just twice.

But as far as the pig goes, sacrificing a pig or something to the "gods" is very common everywhere. It's only natural to pick the biggest (best) for that and of course the person that raised it would be honored also. As people become wealthier they can feed the critter better and breed them better until the beast gets grotesque. But the tradition continues because it ties the generations together. It honors not only the gods but ancestors, part of the culture. I really see no harm in that the pig was not a pet, but born and raised to be eaten.
I think you'll find that it's predominately modern well fed cultures that this animal rights/welfare attitude exists. Elsewhere animals were food or tools except the occasional pet.
My grandfather didn't abuse his horses, not because he thought they were great noble beasts but for the same reason I don't take a hammer to my cars. They are valuable and I need them.
Bull fighting......I don't approve, but I understand.

From another POV, hey, nobody mentioned the fan in the above picture. I bet it stinks like nothin' else in that room. Pigs are good eatin', and smart, but they can reek too.

why does it make them taste better? .. More fat per lb of meat? (kind of like how a lot of people prefer a RibEye, because it's marbled with fat and more flavorful) ?.... ... ... or are the pigs hormones altered as a result of the neutering in some taste-affecting way?

just curious.

It's the hormones. Testosterone is really foul. If a boar gets over 300 lbs or so without being cut, you wouldn't like the taste. Even if they're cut at that point and grow much bigger and older, they still don't taste good.

Since pigs don't sweat the don't stink that way. Their crap and farts however are realllllly rank. If you keep them in a pasture instead of a pen and give them water they can swim in, they hardly smell at all. But anyone that's been near a pig farm knows when you concentrate the population, you concentrate the smell.:vomit:

It's called the Omak Stampede and Suicide Race. Right here in the Pacific Northwest in Eastern Washington. It's a knucklebiter to watch. It's very exciting, but you wouldn't catch me doing that to myself or a horse.

Poor piggie, he thought he was in heaven being so pampered and loved for so long, then they did that to him.:(

Look on the bright side Leah. He could have been treated like any other pig and then eaten. So he made out well.:)

The suicide race looks pretty hairy but then again steeplechase looks pretty dangerous too.:(

Re: 8/21/2003: Huge pig sacrificed
 

And this is news why? Who gives a fuck? Go enjoy your ham sandwich and stop trying to protray this as bad. If you actually care, go vegan, or shut the fuck up.

Now I know you're trying to just report interesting news, so I'll give you that. But don't try and add some boo hoo woe is the pig angle on it, while none of you actually give a shit.

Quzah.

Oh oh...whatever Goethean has got, it is spreading like wildfire...:rolleyes:

For God's sake... where does it end?? :confused:

What is the difference between a sacrifice and cooking dinner?

With a sacrifice, the animal's death has religious significance.

Luckly, Bruce, I agree with you (I'm not sure, but I don't think Stonan would, of course we haven't heard any reply yet.) I realize that many cultures sacrifice animals to the gods and although I would never do that I don't have a huge issue with it as long as the people don't ultimately kill it in an inhumane way such as burning it alive or something. As I said before, I do feel that the pig suffered having been forced to be obese, but I realize piggie's ultimate purpose was to be eaten and as long as the people do comsume the pig after 'sacrificing' it I can live w/ that.

Believe it or not, my reply post was mainly for Stonan. I am a huge animal right's advocate, but I don't appreciate "wanna-be's" who randomly go around sticking their 2-cents in saying everything under the sun is animal abuse and then quietly leaving without defending their position. It makes the rest of 'us' who actually try to do something about animal abuses look like blubbering idiots and then we are left to deal w/ the Quzah's of the world. I was kinda testing Stonan to see if he/she has what it takes to come into the Cellar and make a remark like that. I was trying to find out if Stonan is someone I could make future alliances w/ regarding animal right's stuff or if he/she is just an uninformed trouble-maker. This has yet to be seen and I'm waiting to hear back from Stonan.

Enjoy the ham sammie, Quzah:p

Is that true for beef and poultry as well, or just pork? .. I've never heard this before, and I suppose this is pretty useful stuff.. Are most bred-for-consumption pigs neutered early in life? Is that the way it is for cows, etc too?

Is there a certain label I should be looking for on my meat when I go to the butcher shop?

I find it weird that there is such a differentiating factor in meats that I never knew about....

... and I used to work in a butcher shop.. O.o

Bruce said.....

I'm sure your grandpa didn't abuse his horses, but I'm just as sure he did consider them "great noble beasts". Most people who work and live w/ animals, using them as 'tools' or for food, as opposed to simply having a pet, have a mutual respect for their animals and treat them with such. :)

Here's a clue stick, now hit yourself upside the head with it. I am vegan. I don't eat animals.

Quzah.

Well, that felt good, hitting myself upside the head that is. I must now publicly apologize to Quzah for my premature comment. Not knowing you from Adam, I made the false assumption based on your reply to UT that you were an ignorant butt-head, but I guess I'm the butt-head here. I am sorry Quzah for my stab at you. Feel free to stab back. Just curious, do you think that Vegans are the only ones who really care about animal welfare because they don't eat them? I hope you're not one of those Vegans that proclaim to be the ultimate animal right's advocate while wearing a leather jacket and leather shoes with an egg and cheese burrito hanging out your mouth!

You should look up the word vegan, because you seem to be confusing it with the word vegetarian*. I am a strict vegan. I don't eat or use any animal products if at all humanly possible.

I personally don't care what anyone does, uses, eats, whatever. It's your body, if you want to have a heart attack or get colon cancer, feel free. No sweat off my brow. It's not my goal in life to convince anyone of anything. Believe what you want, do what you want, it has no effect on me either way.

I just find it absurd when people profess some kind of shock or horror at how an animal is treated when they go munch down on a (insert food item here). I guess I just don't like hypocrites. Which is why I loath vegetarians.

Quzah.

*Slight edit here. That isn't the greatest definition of vegetarian. The premise is correct, but the common definition of a vegetarian is some one who doesn't eat meat. Oddly enough they seem to find excuses to eat egg, drink milk, eat either chicken or sea food (because for some unknown reason, those aren't meat. I know, it boggles the mind). People will find a reason to justify any behaviour that makes them feel good about themselves.

LUVBUGZ:

Out of curiosity, since when did someone have to be a vegan, or vegetarian, to care about animals?

I care deeply about animals. It's a fairly well-known British stereotype, but there's something inherently worse about - say - shooting a burglar's dog than shooting a burglar.

I don't like the thought of animals suffering at the hands of their keepers, and I don't like the thought of *any* living thing being mistreated.

On the other hand, I don't consider - for example - free range eggs to be "mistreatment".. the little hens run round in the sunshine, with their beaks and claws still attached. They lay their little eggs on the ground, and someone comes and picks them up. Then I boil, fry or poach them, and the hen's just fine and dandy. I don't buy eggs other than those raised in free-range farms.

Likewise, I don't consider the humane (i.e. as fast as possible, with as little interval between "alive and well" and "dead and filleted" as possible) slaughter of animals for food to be mistreatment, or "uncaring".

I happen to like meat. I like the taste of meat, I like the texture of meat, I like the nutritional value of meat, and I accept that in order to eat meat animals have to be slaughtered. I won't accept that they be tortured to death for the purposes of feeding me, and I won't accept that they be shoved in little cages and shipped the length and breadth of the country (which is why I don't eat veal) but I *do* absolutely stand by the fact that we're omnivores. We're at the top of a food chain, and we eat the things below us in it - just like every other carnivore and omnivore on the planet.

If you choose not to eat meat do so that's your prerogative, and I completely support you in it - but don't presume to judge me and label me "someone who doesn't care" just because you happen to have a different point of view about a single theme than I do.

Kev

Ignorance is bliss. Prepare to be enlightened...

Here.
Here's more info.
And well, if you're really bored...

Like I said, I don't care what you eat. I'd try and put the wool back over your eyes, but I don't use wool either so you're out of luck with me around.

Sadly, there are all kinds of cruel shit for just about any kind of animal "product" you can think of. I'll stop searching now, you can do that if you want to further depress yourself.

If you really care, you'll do something about it. Otherwise you'll do whatever you like to feel better about yourself. Like I've said in the past, people can justify anything.

I justify being an asshole because, well I am one.

Quzah.

Yes, I'm familiar with these two terms. I was just checking to make sure you weren't one of those people who is a actually a vegetarian, but proclaims to be a vegan.

This was point exactly. I don't believe you have to be vegan or vegetarian to care about animals. If you re-read my post (this time a little more carefully), you will see that I was basically asking Quzah this same question. I wanted to know if that was his/her position as a vegan, because I don't agree. I am for the record neither vegan, nor vegetarian and I basically feel the exact same way you do regarding the comsumption of animals. I actually even wear leather and I don't consider myself a hypocrite for doing so. I don't profess to be a vegan or vegetarian, therefore I eat meat (not all meat, by the way...NO lamb or veal) and I feel that if you are going to kill a cow for it's meat, then you better use the rest of it too. Leather is a strong, useful material that lasts much longer than most synthetic materials, so you're damn right I'm gonna put every part of that cow--who gave his life to sustain mine--to use. To not do so would be in a sense a waste of life and that's not right. Sorry to go off on the 'leather' tangent, but since I got that jab in on my Quzah reply I thought I'd address it now to preempt any forthcoming attack on that front. See, I've run into vegans who think that because I'm not vegan that I couldn't possibly care more about animals than they do, yet at the same time they aren't even true vegans because they have leather shoes on and are eating a cheese and mayo sandwich. It really pisses me off. It doesn't bother me what you believe, but don't pull a holier than thou attitude with me while your hypocritical ass can't even practice what you preach. In a round about way I was trying to find out if Quzah was one such vegan, and have since realized that this is not the case.

Quzah, with all that out of the way I hope we can still be friends, unless you loath meat-eaters more than you loath vegetarians:p

I also addressed this in my earlier post. I said I didn't really have a problem with this "tradition" as long as the pig wasn't abused while alive and wasn't tortured while being killed and was eaten by the people afterwards.

Good link. It's amusing that all they have is pictures of people smiling... and a cartoonish image of a chicken in oversize clown shoes.

No pics of chickens hanging by their feet, waiting to be slaughtered.

Thanks for the links Quzah. I've basically seen most of these, but it's been awhile. Sometimes I get so depressed trying to 'fight the good fight' that I have to step away for a bit. This Pig Post just got me going for some reason, actually it was Stonan's post that did it. Still no reply from 'it', by the way. I can accept that most people don't know the reality of most animal right's issues and make little remarks here and there, but it really urks me when someone who represents themselves as an activist slips in their 2-cents worth, stirs things up, then departs never to be heard from again, leaving the real activists to clean up the mess.

By the way, in case you haven't noticed, I'm an asshole too:p

I'm calm, I'm calm....I realize you were addressing everybody, I just thought I'd reiterate my position by quoting you rather than refering to my earlier post which was misread by some. Sorry, I'll never let it happen again:rolleyes:

Quzah, this is absolutely untrue. I know it was a quote and not your statement BUT, believe me it's simply not true, unless you have 50K chickens in a room with a doggie door and most of them never know it's there.
Been there done than, man and virtually all the chickens will go out and scratch/peck the ground for as long as the sun is up. Would I lie to you, my oldest and dearest friend?:D

Nope, you lose. Gramps (1888-1983) considered the horses a necessary evil and was only too happy to replace them with Doodlebugs (homemade tractors) and trucks. He treated them with care for the reasons I stated before.
Now I love to see horses racing (unridden) across the open fields. But I understand Gramps point because I had to get up and walk a half mile each way to the barn, take care of the critters, come back and get ready to catch the school bus at 6:45 AM, every stinkin' morning. With animals there is no vacations, no days off. Then at night more chores and on weekends the other stuff like mucking stalls and other distasteful things.
Oh, and don't get me started on milking or hog slopping.:p

ndetroit, Not to worry. Any male meat on the market has been neutered at a young age. To promote growth, reduce agression (Injurys) and improve taste. Sorry for the late reply, man.:D

All right, all right. You obviously knew grandpa and I didn't. Curious... did he keep *any* horses after the Doodlebugs came on the sceen?

I definately know what you mean about NO vacations w/ animals...they'll also drain your bank account w/ food and vet bills!!

You mean you got to take a bus to school and didn't have to walk five miles in the snow, up hill, w/out boots and a coat:p

The Doodlebugs couldn't be driven on the road legally so they never went more than a couple miles from home. The horses were still used to haul wood into the city for sale.

Later when trucks became affordable, the horses were still used to haul small loads out of tree groves where the bugs couldn't go or caused too much damage. Once the wood was out to the "woodlot" roads, which were just treeless paths, the bugs took over.

One problem was the brush that had to be cut between the trees. It was small stuff, less than an inch in diameter and cut with a brush hook which is a stylized axe. This cut on an angle which left sharp points like pungi (sp) sticks. When these things punctured a tire it was a pain in the ass but when they punctured a horses ankle it could bleed to death pretty quickly without immediate action.

Later my folks bought a saddle horse as did my uncle. Guess who got to take care of them?

Yeah, a school bus. A LONG bus, thank you. It was 17 miles to school, and uphill both ways.:D

Getting your nuts cut off isn't abuse!?

Quzah.

Well technicly, you could call 50K chickens with a single doggie door "free range". I think that's the point they were trying to illustrate.

bmgb mentioned the smiling chickens. This always amuses the hell out of me. I like the smiling pig adds that is selling pork. What kind of sick son of a bitch is he?!

"Hey kiddies! Throw my brother on the barbie and grill his ass!"

Or those Foster's Farms (that's them right?) chickens that are trying to convince everyone that they're fresh chickens so they'll get eaten. The absurdity.

That's like me walking down to a canabalistic tribe and going "Hey, I'm plump and juicy! Eat me! Take a look at these thighs!" (Which on aside, wouldn't work in my case, because I'm skinny. But the point still stands...)

It is to laugh.

Quzah.

Fucking A....I just spent two hours (sounds obcessive doesn't it) composing a masterpiece reply to this and my flaming piece of shit computer froze while I was previewing my post. Son of a bitch I'm pissed. I know you don't give a rat's ass, but I gotta vent before I beat the shit out of my crappy computer and hurt myself in the process.

Are you a male or female? Just curious so I'll know how to address you when I try to recreate my work of art?

I certainly wouldn't, that's a commercial operation. But given half a chance chickens would rather be outside during daylight.;)

Not necessarily.

I'm gonna go out and grab some bacon...excuse me.

"Pig baby! I got a pig!
I gotta pig and it's pink and big!
Pig baby! I got a pig!
Come on baby, you and my pig!
Nurture my pig!"
--The Reverend Horton Heat

Well, in this specific case, I would have to agree w/ you. I'm sure the piggy didn't enjoy the procedure which most likely involved constricting blood flow to the family jewels until they fell off or simply cutting them off w/out anesthesia. I would have to consider this a form of abuse due to the pain involved.

But, if we start talking about the castration of domestic pets, that's a whole new ballgame. Before I go off on that, I'm curious...do you think that's abuse too?

If you love someone, have them spayed or neutered.:p

And one of your ex-wives made sure of this with you, right? :)

With the help of her lawyer AND my lawyer.:(

Exactly, pretty much everthing that walks thru my front door gets 'altered'. Guess that explains why I don't get many visitors:p

Of course it is. You're removing body parts and altering their entire behavior.

If you don't agree, answer me this:
Q - Why does your dog no longer leave the yard when you cut his nuts off?
A - Because he's afraid you'll cut something else off the next time!

No, seriously, it's because he no longer has any desire to go out and procreate. If it wasn't such a big deal, why wouldn't humans do the same? Find your average male, ask them if you can cut off their testicles. What answer are you going to get? "Hell no!"

Neutering is nothing at all like a vasectomy. Spaying is the equivelant of a oophorectomy. Fairly similar to asking any woman if she'd like a hysterectomy. Again, you'll get a resounding "NO!", or at least I'd assume so.

Most people wouldn't volunteer for either operation. So why should your pet want it? The fact is, they wouldn't. There is no way in hell that if you could actually talk to them and explain the process, that they'd want it done.

It would be like asking your average male if you want to remove all sources of testosterone in his body. Because that's what it does. The outcome is an altered thought process. Think of it as a form of lobotomy.

Quzah.

quote:
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Originally posted by quzah

Getting your nuts cut off isn't abuse!?

Quzah.
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quote:
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Originally posted by LUVBUGS as a reply to above quote by Quzah

Fucking A....I just spent two hours (sounds obcessive doesn't it) composing a masterpiece reply to this and my flaming piece of shit computer froze while I was previewing my post. Son of a bitch I'm pissed. I know you don't give a rat's ass, but I gotta vent before I beat the shit out of my crappy computer and hurt myself in the process.

Are you a male or female? Just curious so I'll know how to address you when I try to recreate my work of art?
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Not sure if you caught this post, but I can see you are forcing me to go there. Keep an eye out for wrath:angry:

I saw it, but a few things occurred to me:

1) I don't answer every question I'm asked.
2) It apparently didn't matter the first time you wrote, so why should it now?

Quzah.