Camp Guantanamo So Fuckin' Awful
 

From my buddies at MSNBC:

<blockquote>MOSCOW, Aug. 8 — A Russian mother said that conditions in Russian jails are so awful that she would prefer her son remain in the “humane” conditions of the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay.

A NUMBER OF governments, including Russia’s, are in talks with the United States to extradite their nationals from the prison camp in Cuba, which was set up to house Taliban and al-Qaida suspects after the war in Afghanistan.

“I am terribly scared of a Russian prison or Russian court for my son,” Amina Khasanova was quoted as saying by Gazeta newspaper on Friday.

“At Guantanamo they treat him humanely, the conditions are fine.”

Her son Andrei Bakhitov is one of eight Russian detainees, and the newspaper quoted a letter he wrote to his mother.

“I think that there is not even a health resort in Russia on the level of this place,” the letter said.</blockquote>

These guys never had it so good! Why are others bitching for them? (They're not complaining, it seems.)

Propagnada! That's all thsi is, folks, just more propagnada.

The truth will NOT set them free.;)

Guantanamo Bay! Yes, siree! Home of human rights and freedom, the United States of America, has its very own concentration camp! Detained without charge, without access to legal advise, in conditions that not be tolerated in other advanced nation on Earth, the people of Guantanamo Bay are demonised, dehumanised and - the USA government hope - forgotten.

No way, dudes! Here stands an icon to the horrors of post-WWII USA foreign policy. Pretend it don't exist if you want, cowboys, but Guantanamo Bay is a carbuncle weeping puss down the Statue of Liberty's face!!

You forgot the part about living better than they ever have or could in Afganistan, in your vitriolic bullshit.:p

I think you meant propagadna.

The whole Guantanamo situation just sucks, and I strongly disagree with how the US is handling the prisoners as a whole. But even a bleeding-heart liberal like me knows that they'll probably be treated better by the US than anyone else.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm with you on that Syc. I'm still royaly pissed that the US is holding people without a trial. If they did wrong, prove it. In a court of law, that's why they are there.

Point of order! The courts are not there, they're here. The prisoners, are there and NOT here.
I don't remember any prisioners of war being tried in American courts during any other war. Why now?:confused:

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Sigh, yes, the courts are here. In the country many of these people were taken from. And, again, if you can call someone a prisoner of war when arreste... um, detained, in the "War on Terrorism" then why not do the same for people in the "War on Drugs"? I saw a guy somking what appeared to be a joint the other day, if we aren't going to prove anyone guilty his happy ass needs to get hauled off without so much as a "See ya later" to his family taken to another country and never heard from again.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;What's that you say? Smoking a joint and blowing up a building are two different situations? How do we know anyones guilty of either without a trial?

How do you know the guy shooting at you is the enemy? Well gosh, you got me there.:rolleyes:

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Um, actually Bruce, my thought was more along the lines of how do I know the guy they say was shooting at me has ever touched a gun? I'm sorry if I'm bothered at the thought of hauling people off without ever proving they've done anything wrong.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maybe it's because I haven't done anything wrong myself and don't want to get hauled off either?

Propagnada is that country where cars run on Canola oil and love...

Come on, Whit. The government isn't going to abuse it's powers! Have some trust, for Chrissakes.

Actually, we did try, and execute, several German prisoners (saboteurs) during WW II. If I can find the link, I'll post it.


Brian

I suspect Bruce was referring to civil courts, not military (which is how the German soldiers you referred to were tried).

That's true, Brian. The spies/saboteurs that were landed by submarine here, with orders to disrupt shipping. They had orders to try and incite the longshoremen to cause work stoppages and plant explosives to destroy dock facilities. If I remember correctly, the whole plan was exposed, because least 2 of them were caught on the beach.
However, this is a rather different animal than POW's that were brought to this country. They were repatriated to Germany and Italy, many against their will having been seduced by what they saw here.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Ah, now I understand Bruce, I was speaking of the people that were taken out of the US and sent to Guantanamo. Like the Intel guy we discussed on this board... um... somewhere... Sorry, it's too late and I'm to lazy to find it. You were speaking of people taken from elsewhere. We talking about two different situations.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Um, not to stir things up but holding a lot of those people, as they are held without charges, is a violation of the Geneva Conventions. That doesn't piss me off as much as the US Citizens that are held without charges but I still don't much like it. Of course, I don't have too. All I can really do is vote next election, and I will.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

I don't think he was <b>sent to Guantanamo</b>. I would be extremely interested in hearing that story, and having it verified by an independent third party. Because that would be extremely good for me to use in arguing against Bush. But I certainly don't believe anyone has been removed from the United States and taken to Guantanamo.

The Intel guy Maher Mofeid "Mike" Hawash pleaded guilty last week to assisting the Taliban. He is not now, nor has he ever been held in Guantanamo. The argument is that he was held without due process.

This is a sticky one. He may or may not have done the things they claimed, but "Mike" was gone so long that I suspect he was coerced into giving a confession. Mike probably even believes he assisted the Taliban now.

I remember a show on the Discovery channel where the Phoenix [?] police department interrogated four kids for so long they had them convinced they had murdered 9 monks in a local Buddhist temple.

That seems like a stretch, but not impossible.

Guilty until proven innocent. Unless you're the government. Then it's the other way around.

There was a story on This American Life (act two) last year about how the police convinced a 14 year old kid that he murdered his own sister. DNA evidence later proved that he didn't do it, but they kept him in the interrogation room for so long that he'd believe anything they said. They actually convinced him he did something that he didn't do, and he confessed to the crime.

I think there was also a Dateline or 60 Minutes show on police interrogation techniques being akin to brainwashing a while back. Not sure how it'd work against adults, as Mike Hawash was, though. But it seems to have happened many times in the past, where evidence has later proved that the confessors didn't actually do it.

When I was in High School the MA State Police rounded up a bunch of older guys for questioning about gasoline thefts from a gravel company.
They took them in the back room of the barracks one at a time and gave them the 3rd degree. Bucky Peck told them he didn't do it and when one of the cops called him a liar, Bucky punched him in the mouth. Needless to say, they beat the crap out of him. He told me "I's doin pretty good till they pulled them ju-jitsu's on me".
And now...back to the thread. :D

I can't wait to see the fireworks that will occur if the Moussaoui case is tossed.