Harry Potter
 

I was a bit surprised that in almost a week since the Harry Potter book came out nobody has mentioned it, either to praise the book, diss it, or just to complain about all the hype and hoopla. So what's the deal?

File me under "Who gives a fuck?"

I'm sure it's a great book...maybe I'll read the set one of these days.

Lemme guess...you were at B&N at midnight last Friday.

For that matter, there are several issues we haven't discussed this week, like the various SC decisions.

I wasn't... tho what I did do may or may not qualify as more fanatical depending on your point of view! :cool: I'm ancient, you know, I can't stay up till midnight any more.

Anyhoo, I got kind of irked when the first book came out and they changed the title for the American market because they thought we couldn't deal with the "Philosopher's Stone". So I ordered it from Amazon UK instead of buying it here. I continued the tradition with the other books, and the latest one ought to be here next week sometime.

Mine was preordered from amazon.com. It arrived on Saturday, while I was at Plastic Forks. (A neighbor kindly brought it in out of the rain for me, so I wasn't reading a soggy copy. )

I started reading it on Monday, and finished yesterday.

I can't say that it's my favorite of the series (I think any of the critics who are calling it the "best yet" have received large giftbaskets full of fruit and booze from the publisher) but it's definitely good.

The books are definitely fun ... I'm also watching my friend's son enjoy the series. He's not a particularly great reader, although he's vastly improving, partly with the help of Harry and friends. His love of the story is transferring quite nicely to an enjoyment of reading in general.

Bought it at Pathmark on Saturday morning along with the horseradish chedder for Forks. Haven't gotten around to it yet. I started the series on the recomendation of a school teacher friend. I was and am increasingly put off by the hoopla but she assured me they were just fun to read and she was right. I'm not concerned with literary merit or social chic so I find as the hoopla increases the less I mention it to people.

Since I also read the sci-fi equivalent of romance novels, I have to say that I enjoy the Harry Potter series. In now way can it be considered great literature, at the same time, at least kids are reading something rather than just completely vegging in front of the stupid-machine. All things considered, which would you rather have? A twelve-year-old that's into Harry Potter, or one that's into Britney Spears and 'N Sync?

What do you mean by "the sci-fi equivalent of romance novels"? Probably my favorite writer of the moment is Lois McMaster Bujold, and I understand she has something of a cross-over audience in romance readers.

You read Darkover and Pern too, eh?

(I'm also interested in finding out which authors you mean here ...)

I'm referring to space operas, like the Lensman series, Deathstalker, Star Wars, that kind of thing. Heavy on action, poor writing, brain fluff type stuff. I read weighty stuff too, but these take my mind away from reality.
And they have fewer calories than Warsteiner.

Last Saturday, a 11 year old neighbor kid, comes running down the sidewalk to show me her copy of the new book. This kid has lots of challenges, only some are academic, but she's more than a year behind in her reading. She was so motivated. She'd made a special bookmark in anticipation, and it rested between the first few pages. I asked her if she was going to read all 700 or so. Yep! (even though she's heard there may be more scarey parts), then went off to get reading. Kids loving, wanting to read, lost in imagination- so great.

Ive read the books so far, (I wait for the library) and have enjoyed them all, just like a kid.

I bought Harry Potter 5 first day it was out. Wasn't planning on it but I went into the grocery store and there it was, staring at me. Finished it. It was good, but fairly predictable and had some plot holes you could drive a truck through.

As for SF Romance, someone on another forum who reads both claims that "A Civil Campaign" actually follow the Regency formula. Also I have the latest in the Skolia series (Asaro) sitting at home waiting to be read (though unfortunately that series has declined since "Radiant Seas")

Okay...I and my family were at B&N at midnight, but we weren't smart enough to have reserved a copy in advance, so all we could do was watch the amazing parade of pop-culture obsessed humanity (ourselves included).

To make a long story short, we don't buy the books, we buy the audio books on tape, and I obtained a copy of that a couple of days later. We're on Chapter 4, and all I can say so far is this:

1) We have a much edgier Harry on our hands.
2) I'm almost certain that JK Rowling did not write all of this book.

I haven't read any of them yet. I may pick up the first one at some point, just to see what all the fuss is about. I saw about twenty seconds of the first movie on a display in K-Mart the other night.

I think the main reason I've avoided the series to date is that I'm highly allergic to hype and obsessive fandom. I'm weird that way. I have not watched any of the Star Wars movies beyond the first, and avoid post-Wrath of Khan Star Trek byproducts with a passion. I greatly enjoy Tolkien's books (the Silmarillion is on my dresser as I speak), yet I've avoided the movies; I already have a mental picture of how the story went, thenkyew. I loathed much of the Matrix, and couldn't grasp what everyone else saw in it. I haven't watched a minute of Survivor, Buffy or American Idol, except for the last few minutes of the first Survivor's climactic episode to see if the fat naked guy I'd heard about would win (and that only because my father had it on, and I walked into the room).

Oddly, I don't get quite the same "CA$H COW" vibe out of Potter that I do from many of the above, though it's obviously being milked for maximum marketing appeal. I don't know why, but I sense that there's something of substance tucked behind the buybuybuy mania.

Color me clueless.. what's the Regency formula?

Why? To make it a group thing? if so, why not read together out loud? Not critical just curious.:)
Bingo! The books are fun and made it on their own. After it was a hit in the UK and making inroads here, the money boys recognized the potential to make themselves rich. They made Rowlings richer but she had it made, on her own talent. There was substance before hype in this case.

BTW I noticed in the poll that nobody said they read them and didn't like them.;)

The dust jacket on the left came from Yahoo news photos, possibly from England. The jacket on the right is mine. Do you have a different one?

Yep, the one on the left is the UK edition.

Bruce said: Why? To make it a group thing? if so, why not read together out loud? Not critical just curious. :-)


We tend to listen on family trips in the car, although so far we've replaced some tv viewing with the audio book. Truth is, the man who reads these novels on tape, Jim Dale, is spectacularly good at what he does, and the tapes themselves are a substantive form of enhanced entertainment compared to reading the printed version, aloud or otherwise.

He is so good at it, that I was a bit disappointed at first hearing of some of the characters in the films. This guy has done the best job of rendering written fantasy that I've ever heard. In the current book, he creates voices for something like 250 individual characters and beasties.

Wow, I thought is was just somebody reading it straight. That might be fun even after reading the book.
As for the movies, I thought they did an amazing job of not leaving out any of the straight story line. But reading the book it seemed like there was so much peripheral stuff going on besides the story line. Maybe it was just in my mind.:D

Jim Dale does an <i>amazing</i> job on the audiobooks. he actually won a coupla Grammys for his work on the books.

Russotto, what plot points are you talking about that don't make any sense?

Regency formula: The formula a Regency romance follows. I don't read romance and don't know much about it.

Plot points: Trying not to spoil too much, the item Voldemort was seeking and the Order was trying to protect would have done Voldemort no good had he gotten it. That was the major one, there were several other minor ones which would be easier to patch up. (Voldy's explanation for why he didn't do the job himself was not credible, for instance)

I'm almost tempted to check one out.. is one of the rules "Have a nebbishly scientist/geek character running around for comic effect?"

Minor Spoilers
 

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Russoto, you're right that it wouldn't have done Voldy any good now. However, I must point out that he didn't know that. After all, if he'd have had that it 16 years ago Harry would have died having never been within 20 miles of He-Who-Shall-Not-Get-a-Tan and the good guys would've lost back then. Due to the nature of the item he couldn't know how useful it would be untill he examined it.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Now, Tom's (I did enjoy Dumbledore calling him that) refusal to enter the Ministry to retrieve it himself then popping in like it was no big deal was a little annoying. However, it's a kids book. It's hardly fair to expect it to live up to adult book standards.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Oh yeah, did anybody else get what the hell exactly was behind that veil? It sounded like a portal to the afterlife or somesuch but I didn't get it...
Spoiler: I am still pissed nothing happened between Ron and Hermione. What the hell? They're 15 hormones churning and they act like, well, Ron's parents. Or rather they don't, the Weasleys do have what seems like 3 dozen kids. I don't know... Maybe Rowling felt a few more pages would be a bit to much. Maybe we'll find out later that something was happening, but since the book always follows Harry we didn't get to find out about it until they tell him.

Re: Minor Spoilers
 

He didn't, but Dumbledore did.

Quote:

     Oh yeah, did anybody else get what the hell exactly was behind that veil? It sounded like a portal to the afterlife or somesuch but I didn't get it...

I don't know what the technique is called, the literal portrayal of a figurative expression. Piers Anthony uses it a lot too. One who has died is often said to have "passed beyond the veil".

Re: Minor Spoilers
 

Yep I did too! You know, that could be a solution there... Everybody who's uptight about saying "Voldemort" could just refer to him Tom.

Well they're both too stubborn to admit anything. Besides, Hermione is still writing to that Viktor Krum.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Well yeah, Dumbledor did know that the info wouldn't do He-That-Needs-an-Eye-Doctor any good. But obviously Dumbledor intentionally used the situation to draw him out. Quite successfully too I might add. Admittedly it would have gone smoother without the DA's involvement but it would have taken longer too. Also that would have left the main character out of the action.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was very glad to see Ron get some recognition. He deserves it. To hell with Vicktor Crum, Ron is the man. Hermione needs to see where the real action is. I hope Ron continues to evolve upwardly over the next two books. He's going to have to keep up with Hermione, especially since she seems to be turning into a McGonagal/Mrs. Wesley hybrid. Though I'd really like to see him be more useful to Harry, taking on Deatheaters and such.

And as for Harry Potter not being literature, well, I'd strongly take issue with that; I knew there was a major literary event happening here about the time I noted that my rereadings of HP were catching up to the number of my rereadings of the much more adult Lord Of The Rings. And I'm forty-seven years old. Sure, HP is kid-lit, but it is literature nonetheless. It will stand with Alice In Wonderland, Wind in the Willows, and The Hobbit.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I believe I said it was a kids book. Not that it wasn't literature. I believe it qualifies. The point stands that it's not meant to stand up to the same level of critique. I think the books are excellent, just that it's unfair to nitpic the plot as if it were a book for adults. So, either someone else said it wasn't literature that I didn't see or you didn't understand that in calling it a book I didn't mean that it wasn't literature. I don't know which.

Critique
 

Has anyone ever read The Annotated Alice by Martin Gardner? Children's books are perfectly legitimate targets of critique. One may forgive a children's book for an uncomplicated plot, but if there are plot problems, they deserve critical attention.

there are no plot problems unless the children it was written for, see plot problems.

Is there nothing
 

Is there nothing in the Alice stories warranting study by adults? Or, conversely, is it likely that Harry Potter 5 wasn't written with the expectation of a large number of adults in the readership?

It's been pretty well documented that a huge number of adults are reading the series. But maybe Rowling is writing for children anyway. Being a manchild, I liked it. :D

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Actually, most of the people I've talked to that have read them are adults. Doesn't change the slant of the books. It's directed at a child's level. What makes it a kids book isn't not being smart enough for adults. It's keeping it understandable to kids. This means some things will happen without deep psychological reasons. In this case Mr. Riddle coming to the Ministry when he had been expressly avoiding it no matter the import. Yeah, an adult might question this. It's a tactically stupid thing to do. Especially when coming from someone who is supposed to be brilliant. However, to a kid it just means Tom's really pissed. That's what my ten year old surmised. Ask your own. In my case Rowling hit dead center the effect she was looking for. So, I say "Well done."
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Or to be brief, even if I didn't get it, my kid, the target audience did. Sounds right to me.

If we assume the audience is Harry's age, your kid is below the target age. IMO, lots of kids Harry's age will notice the discrepency.

They'll all be nerds, but they'll notice nevertheless.

Oh no, the amazing part of the whole phenomenon is the way it has attracted non-nerds to reading.:p

For what (vanishingly little) my opinion is worth, I think Rowling has done an astoundingly fine job writing on a level which is engaging and descriptive for adults, yet is accessible to kids at the same time...or vice-versa, if you will.

Three out of my four teenagers enjoyed the books. I managed to only read the first half of book one. I thought the films were interesting. To get my 13 year old daughter to wade thru a 700 page book of any caliber is a remarkable achievement. I admire Rowlings for what she has accomplished-- from welfare mamma to the richest woman in Britain--a true success story.

Welcome, Cedar!

Wow, are you really from Prague? That's pretty neat.

Hi Cedar. With 4 teenagers you're lucky to be able to get half way through a postcard, no less a book.:D

Harry Potter Madness in London
 

When the latest Harry Potter book came out I was in London holding my 19 year old son's hand in the hospital as he was recovering from complications arising from his appendix being removed. Harry Potter addicts were camping in front of bookstores days before the release of the book to get an 8 hour jump at midnight before the opening of regular business the next day. I thought the hoopla was a bit exaggerated as I strolled down to the bookstore closest to my hotel near Oxford Street the next morning, queued up sixth in line at 9 am and waltzed out with the book at 9:08. My 13 year old daughter was thrilled with it when I gave it to her upon my return to Prague. She labored through it for at least two weeks and kept me posted chapter by chapter what troubles Harry was encountering at Hogwarts. To me it was more interesting to hear the tales from her than to actually read the book. Now I just have to get busy and get a copy mailed to my 20 year old daughter who is posted with the 4th Infantry somewhere in Iraq.

Hadn't thought of that but wouldn't it be also interesting to read it (time permitting:D ) and compare your impression to the kid's take on it?

Youngin Harry P again
 

I agree that it might be an interesting comparison. However, I currently have about 30 books stacked up with a higher priority than Harry Potter. So I must get those read first and let my daughter keep me posted on H.P.

Yeah and the second half of that postcard from before.:D

At last. Harry Potter sees the light :)

I can't see anyone but ultra-fundamentalists being bothered by HP. Like any other power, magic would be neither good nor evil of itself. It's what you do with it.

Believe me, if I had the ability to mow the lawn by waving a wand, I'd be right there.

Amen:D

I may be showing my gullibility here, but this can't be serious! Is it?

Ugh

No and yes. The site is a parody, but the fundies do have a bitch about HP so it's not that far off.